No Reverse Gear!

[Buttons]

As the title says really.

The new box (Rancho Pro Street in a '56 Oval)) is in, and last night started fitting up shifter.

1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th locate perfectly but no frickin reverse gear!

We tried to select the gears manually directly from the box using some mall grips (oh what a beautiful tool they are!) but could not get reverse.
The shaft will turn as it does to select the gear, but when you try and locate it, it is solid.

After a good 2 and a half hrs p#ssing about with it (thanx 67screamer for your determination, i lost faith way before that!), still no joy......
We started questioning the box itself and could sommit be not quite right from where we had the nose cone off of it previously. But surely if the 'ockey stick wasn't located correctly, i'd get no gears at all??

I really dont wanna pull out the engine and box if i can help it but if thats what it takes then it'll have to be done. BUT..... before i do the drastic, has anyone got any ideas?

[benssp]

Call Rancho

take the nose cone off and manually select revers, see if you get any joy that way

[louisb]

What's reverse?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

--louis

[.]

reverse is highly overrated !
 

[Bruce]

We tried to select the gears manually directly from the box using some mall grips (oh what a beautiful tool they are!) but could not get reverse.
The shaft will turn as it does to select the gear, but when you try and locate it, it is solid.

Are you turning leaning your tool towards the battery?  And pulling the rod towards the front of the car?

Did you use a Bus 211 nose cone?  And a Bus bent tip hockey stick?

From your description, it sounds like you have a Beetle hockey stick and a Bus nose cone.  This combination will NOT get reverse.

[Buttons]

Did you use a Bus 211 nose cone?  And a Bus bent tip hockey stick?

Thanx Bruce,

i'm taking it all out this weekend and i'll be checking this. How will i know if its a bus hockey stick??? This could be my problem cos it is definatley a bus nose cone with the hockey stick that was supplied. 

 

[Fastbrit]

Did you use a Bus 211 nose cone?  And a Bus bent tip hockey stick?

Thanx Bruce,

i'm taking it all out this weekend and i'll be checking this. How will i know if its a bus hockey stick??? This could be my problem cos it is definatley a bus nose cone with the hockey stick that was supplied. 

 

The Bus hockey stick has the 'detent' drilling in the bottom so it can be accessed from under a Bus. To use in a Type 1, you need to redrill the detent on top, like on a Beetle hockey stick.

[Buttons]

  nice one! 

i'm loving all this info today... think i've earned myself a few ciders tonight!!

Thanx people, i'll let you know how i get on

[Bruce]

. How will i know if its a bus hockey stick???

KS is right, a Bus hockey stick has it's divot on the bottom, but so does a Type 3's.

If you lay a Bug/Type 3 hockey stick on a table, the tip will touch the surface when set on both sides.  A Bus hockey stick has it's last 3/4" of the tip bent up so it won't touch the table.

[Fastbrit]

Damn, Bruce, I'd forgotten about that! I remember now having real 'fun' trying to put a T1 trans in a T3 and wondering hat the heck was going on!  )

[Olaf A./DFL]

i've also redrilled the hole in the hockey stick to fit the t1 nose cone. it's very hard to get it drilled perfectly -what i saw one day on the slambulance blog is in my opinion the 2.best solution (best would be a t1 hockey stick -but those are hard to find) i don't know where to find those but maybe someone on here does:

[Bruce]

Here's a pic of the Bus hockey stick:



What I don't understand is what is the divot that's not 180º away for?

[Buttons]

ok, box is now out.... what a nice day to spend a hungover saturday!! 

The hockey stick is not bent across like the one Bruce has pictured, ie, if it was laid flat on a table it would touch the tabletop.

Now, what i am confused about is holes drilled in it. There are 2 holes in it, and if i can describe them as hands on a clock..... one is at 6 o'clock (facing the ground when in the car) and the other is at approx 11 o'clock. Surely it needs to be at 12 o'clock right??
I was thinking that when i'm lining it up to connect to linkage rod, i am moving hockey stick away from the starting position of nuetral and therefore the hockey stick is p#ssed to start with.
 
Did i describe this ok??!!! it sounded ok in my head, but putting it into words is all together different!! 

[Lids]

why don't you post a pic

[Fastbrit]

OK, this is familiar! Details are all a bit sketchy as it was 21 years ago that i did this, but when I converted my Type 3 from Automatic to manual trans, I used the gear shift rod from the Type 3, but with a Type 1 gearbox. I used a Type 1 aftermarket coupling turned upside down to connect the linkage to the hockey stick. The result was that the gear lever was jammed over to one side! On the hockey stick was another hole (on top) which was at an angle to the one on the bottom. From what I recall, I had to use that upper detent hole – I think your hockey stick is a Type 3 one not a Type 1 or 2... I may be wrong, but I definitely recall my hockey stick having two holes and the 'new' trans came from a Type 3 in a wrecking yard. The secret I think is that the Type 3 coupler is different to the Type 1. Somebody prove me right (or wrong)!  )

Check: Just looked in my VW parts book for the Type 3, and the hockey stick still has a 113 part number BUT the coupler is different – it's a 311 part number.  )

[JS]

 the other is at approx 11 o'clock. Surely it needs to be at 12 o'clock right??
[/quote]

Correct. I welded the old hole and trial fitted the coupling with a normal 13mm bolt and checked if i had all 5 gears before i redrilled the hole.

[Bruce]

The hockey stick is not bent across like the one Bruce has pictured, ie, if it was laid flat on a table it would touch the tabletop.

Now, what i am confused about is holes drilled in it. There are 2 holes in it, and if i can describe them as hands on a clock..... one is at 6 o'clock (facing the ground when in the car) and the other is at approx 11 o'clock.

Don't worry too much about the odd hole location.  You have the wrong hockey stick.  You need to get the Bus item.  Then drill the divot at 180º.

[Buttons]

so i NEED a bus hockey stick? I thought i needed a bus nose cone but not a bus hockey stick.

So... i need a bus hockey stick, and need ro redrill it when it's positioned in the car... 

[JS]

I can only tell you what I did in my ´58 sedan. I used a brasil t2 nose cone and an original t1 stick from a 1300S (AS box).
I then welded the hole for the coupling and redrilled it. If you use a t2 stick you still have to drill a new hole IMO.

[Bruce]

I can only tell you what I did in my ´58 sedan. I used a brasil t2 nose cone and an original t1 stick from a 1300S (AS box).

I tried that once, and it did NOT work.  When trying to rotate the hockey stick into reverse, the side of the hockey stick 1" from the tip interfered with the side of the cutout in the reverse shift rod before the tip was out of the 1-2 shift rod. 

You must use a Bus hockey stick with a Bus nose cone.

[Buttons]

You must use a Bus hockey stick with a Bus nose cone.

this sounds cool, but now i'm being advised on sommit compleyely different!!!!!!

Changing the nosecone to a later one (with later hockey stick!), weld later mounts on car, change the rear cradle also to a later one and redrill the holes and happy days............ 
This apparnetly makes the whole thing sit correctly, and gives plenty of room by the valence for the header. Admittadly, this was looking like an issue.
With it all in place, (with bus nose cone) the header was as good as touching the rear valence and thus causing the paint to bubble from the heat a likelyhood. 

I've gotta ask, why have i not heard about these issues before??!! 
People must have had these problems a thousand times, why is it not common knowledge??!! 
 
As you can probably guess, i'm getting a tad p#ssed off with it all now and really dont know whats to do for the best.

so then....ANYONE WANNA BUY A NICE OVAL THATS ALL DRESSED UP WITH NOWHERE TO GO??!!

Only jokin, i'm not giving up... just losing patience and motivation 

[Olaf A./DFL]

i used a normal bug's hockey stick in a t1 nose cone and it works -just redrilled the hole

[JS]

I can only tell you what I did in my ´58 sedan. I used a brasil t2 nose cone and an original t1 stick from a 1300S (AS box).

I tried that once, and it did NOT work.  When trying to rotate the hockey stick into reverse, the side of the hockey stick 1" from the tip interfered with the side of the cutout in the reverse shift rod before the tip was out of the 1-2 shift rod. 

You must use a Bus hockey stick with a Bus nose cone.

How do you explain the fact that my car work with this setup? This thread suddenly became more interesting. 

[Bruce]

Are you sure the hockey stick you used was a Bug one?  It may have been a Bus one that somebody installed in that late gearbox.  Did you install it personally?
You may have gotten lucky and had one that worked, although I find it hard to believe.  Either way, you can't guarantee the next guy is going to have the same success.  In fact, this whole topic proves that.

If you use a Beetle nose cone and hockey stick, when bolted up to the front mount, the shift rod from the gearbox will enter the pan too high.  You can simply hack your car up to make it fit.  Do not install the cover over the inspection hole, it will prevent the coupler from rotating.

You can use the Bug parts and reposition the front mount lower to allow the hockey stick to enter the pan at the center of the existing hole.  However, doing this will pivot the rear of the engine up, causing more interference with your merged exhaust.

If you use the Bus nose cone and hockey stick, once the new divot is drilled, everything fits just as if VW designed it that way.

[JS]

Bruce, I´m pretty positive that the stick is a bug one, as I removed the box from the donor car and changed the nose cone myself.
I originally ordered a bus stick from the parts shop, but when it arrived the shaft of the stick was bent that it wouldn´t even fit in the nosecone. Really poor quality.
I also helped a friend of mine that I share workshop with do the same thing last week. The car has not been started yet, but reverse engages just fine on visual inspection.
 

[Buttons]

ok, think i know what i'm gonna do...

Fit a later nose cone (bug) with the hockey stick to match (bug). Weld later mounts on the car and change the rear cradle also to a later one (although i believe that this will need minor modification).
From what i'm told, this setup works best on an early car and will also create extra room at the rear valence for air to circulate better around the header.

Has anyone on here had experience with this method? 

It's the way that the Greenheart cars seem to be set up with so it cant be that bad!! 

[Bruce]

From what i'm told, this setup works best on an early car and will also create extra room at the rear valence for air to circulate better around the header.

Since a Beetle hockey stick is higher than the hockey stick of the original split case gearbox, if you use it, the front of the gearbox will be lower in order for the hockey stick to pass through the hole in the tunnel.  This will cause the rear of the engine to rise, increasing the interference between your header and the rear valence.

[Buttons]

Since a Beetle hockey stick is higher than the hockey stick of the original split case gearbox, if you use it, the front of the gearbox will be lower in order for the hockey stick to pass through the hole in the tunnel.  This will cause the rear of the engine to rise, increasing the interference between your header and the rear valence.

  now i'm really confused! 

[benssp]

now i'm really confused! 

Ifyou use a late bug hockey stick/nose cone,your box will sit nose down and stick the motor up in the air causing everything else to behinde the gearbox cradle to sit too high. i.e pissed

[Buttons]

Ifyou use a late bug hockey stick/nose cone,your box will sit nose down and stick the motor up in the air causing everything else to behinde the gearbox cradle to sit too high. i.e pissed

So whats best then?
I've looked at a Hockey stick from a bus today, although it was a late brazilian bay, and it is not bent like the one Bruce pictured.

To be honest, everyone seems to have an opinion but no-one seems to have an answer.....  am i asking the wrong questions??!!