Question: Camber Compensator(s)?

[Rennsurfer]

Forgive me if this old news or has been talked about to death on here... but I was originally looking for an EMPI Camber Compensator for my '67. During my search, I happened upon this from C.B.



Has anyone tried one of these? They claim that they're stronger than the original ones. Personally, I don't care which one I get. I just remember the EMPI one was one of the best things I've ever seen in the way of suspension improvement for a Type 1. I throw my cars into high speed turns and want one of these. Any constructive advice will be appreciated... thanks in advance.

[.]

The first thing I notice about the CB model pictured is, you will have to remove the transaxle bracket to change the oil.
Whereas the original Empi model has a hole in the bracket for that purpose.

[Rennsurfer]

The first thing I notice about the CB model pictured is, you will have to remove the transaxle bracket to change the oil.
Whereas the original Empi model has a hole in the bracket for that purpose.

Great point, Richard. Silly question number two; can't I just drill a hole big enough to allow a gearbox oil change? I would think so, without weakening the plate.

[Jim Ratto]

I ran one of CB's in the 1980's and it broke one day hurrying to work. Sparks flying.
Probably my fault.

Anyway, I run the SAW one now, and I like the way my car throttle steers through Box Canyon up here in Canoga Park. You only have to remove leaf spring portion to drain gear oil. Not bracket. Plus you can shim the carriers up to stiffen spring if you so deisre....

[Zach Gomulka]

The EMPI/CB ones seem bass ackwards to me as they pull down on the axles rather than pushing them up as the SAW unit does. Right???

[Donny B.]

The EMPI/CB ones seem bass ackwards to me as they pull down on the axles rather than pushing them up as the SAW unit does. Right???

If they were bass ackwards then how come they worked so well?  I have had one on my car for about 15 years and would never go back.  I even have a spare sittin' in the garage.  I was going to put it on my wife's '61, but don't know if I will ever finish that.  I love mine.  It is especially good on long high speed sweeping turns like exiting or getting onto the freeway.  It really calms down the back end.

[Rennsurfer]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm gonna try to locate one. Don't care if it's EMPI or a new one.

[larry mck]

The 1967 bug has a Z bar built into it, which you can shim. The camber compensator would just duplicate it. If you read up on how the compensator works, it needs to push and pull. That is why the EMPI and CB one are better than the SAW. IMHO

[Rennsurfer]

The 1967 bug has a Z bar built into it, which you can shim. The camber compensator would just duplicate it. If you read up on how the compensator works, it needs to push and pull. That is why the EMPI and CB one are better than the SAW. IMHO

Yep, my car already has the Z-bar. Shimming 'em up is an old trick some of the track guys have done. I just wanna add the compensator. Found this pic of a newer EMPI one. Appears to have the drain hole already there. Anyone have experience with the newer EMPI ones? I'm not a fan of their current products, but if this item functions like the original, I'll buy one.

[qubek]

I'm about to install the CB one.
I bought it because I was ordering some other parts from CB at the time and because it's cheap.
I thing the basic design (original EMPI and CB) seems to be OK, what worries me is that EMPI one had a different design of link (pivot point) between the bar and the mounting plate.
CB's is simple and cheap. Maybe it works (I hope), we'll see on the car, but it seams that it there is little place for the bar to roll before it hits its mounting plate, comparing to original EMPI.
The other thing is that even if the design is identical, like in case of EMPI/MrBug and sway a way, the crucial factor here is stiffness of the bar. Something that is difficult to check and compare.

[Rennsurfer]

I'm about to install the CB one.
I bought it because I was ordering some other parts from CB at the time and because it's cheap.
I thing the basic design (original EMPI and CB) seems to be OK, what worries me is that EMPI one had a different design of link (pivot point) between the bar and the mounting plate.
CB's is simple and cheap. Maybe it works (I hope), we'll see on the car, but it seams that it there is little place for the bar to roll before it hits its mounting plate, comparing to original EMPI.
The other thing is that even if the design is identical, like in case of EMPI/MrBug and sway a way, the crucial factor here is stiffness of the bar. Something that is difficult to check and compare.

Good points on everything in your post. Which is why I'm curious as to which one works the best. Thanks for the input.

[speedwell]

here's my NOS on the 61 

[speedwell]

 

[Lids]

the only thing i found in the past is that they do not fit built boxes with HD side plates!

[empicolector]

I use a speedwell camber
found in nos and fit in 10 minutes on the ghia
really nice feeling on road with this part
a must have for any bug/ghia
I believe that the empi is similar on look and quality
don't have pictures sorry

[javabug]

Good topic, I've been wondering about these for my car, as well.  Not sure if you saw the guy on thesamba.com selling refurbished EMPIs.  Don't know how the cost of one of those compares to a modern version.

[Rennsurfer]

Not sure if you saw the guy on thesamba.com selling refurbished EMPIs.  Don't know how the cost of one of those compares to a modern version.

That guy on the Samba is WAY high and so are his prices. There is no way I'm gonna pay over $300 for something that I can buy for less then half of that and restore it myself for very cheap. But... like they always say, there's one born every minute. HAHA!!

[javabug]

Ooops, I forgot they were that expensive!  I only looked at the ad once...now I remember why.   

[Zach Gomulka]

If they were bass ackwards then how come they worked so well?

Well, that's why I ask. Could someone explain to me the engineering behind each design??

the only thing i found in the past is that they do not fit built boxes with HD side plates!

Found out that one the hard way too!!

[qubek]

If they were bass ackwards then how come they worked so well?

Well, that's why I ask. Could someone explain to me the engineering behind each design??

They work in an exactly the same way. They connect the wheels on the opposite sides acting contrariwise to anti-roll bar. If one wheel goes up, the other goes down. The fact that one of them pushes both the wheels up a little doesn't matter. 

[.]

For those people with heavy duty sidecovers.
Empi had an earlier bracket that mounted to the framehorns, not the transaxle.

[67worshipper]

this might be a daft question but does this set up help or hinder at the top end of the dragstrip when coming off the power?

[qubek]

It should help. It prevents both wheels from going down at the same time (=rear end of the car going up). Of course, only to a certain degree, depending of the stiffness of the bar.

[OldSpeed]

Sorry to hijack slightly but am i right in thinking that when shimming a factory 68> swing axle Z bar you put the shims just above number 21 on the diagram just below the rubber stops cup? Or do they go below the rubber stop?


Thanks.

[gibber!]

If you want to take the play out of the z-bar and therefore make it work sooner, then you would shim under the rubber stop i.e. in the cup.
If you are trying to limit the axles downward movement then shimming below the cup would achieve this.
Remember the z-bar is only there to help stiffen the rear suspension when under load, and in my opinion neither a camber compensator or roll bar.

[OldSpeed]

Thanks Gibber. At the moment I have got small anti roll bar bushes shimming under the stop. I've tried shimming below the cup too but it doesn't seem to do much to reduce downwards suspension travel. I'm thinking of adding an adjustable limit stop to the lower spring plate stop which would solve the positive camber problem.

 

[Jim Ratto]

I took stock Type 1 rear axle subbers and sawed them down (just so there was an opening at each end) and stakced them under the stock Z bar bumpers. Cheap and easy.
Then I broke my Z bar...  I think; a) it was shimmed too tightly and b) I drove it too hard too often.

[JS]

Any advice on camber compensators that can be mounted to a box with HD Side covers?

[Zach Gomulka]

Any advice on camber compensators that can be mounted to a box with HD Side covers?

I would just have the side cover machined down a bit where the spring perch mounts. It doesnt need much to work.

[JS]

I know, but like you I found out about it too late. Now I don´t have the time to take the box out,  I´ll miss this years Bug-Run in Sweden which is one of the very few events that has 1/4 mile racing in scandinavia...