Motor Suggestions For Tow Vehicle? (Bay Window)

[Fasterbrit]

Thinking of building a nice big, torquey motor for my Bay Westy that will tow my racecar this year. The car probably weighs 1600 lb and the trailer is very light at 400 lb. Any suggestions on a good engine spec for towing? Let's have some ideas fellas!

[Fastbrit]

Subaru 2.5-litre quad-cam. 155bhp, ton of torque and all the reliability in the world (plus a decent heater!). Next question? )

[Neil Davies]

Subaru 2.5-litre quad-cam. 155bhp, ton of torque and all the reliability in the world (plus a decent heater!). Next question? )

And back issues detailing the conversion are available from...

 )

[Fasterbrit]

Subaru 2.5-litre quad-cam. 155bhp, ton of torque and all the reliability in the world (plus a decent heater!). Next question? )

Ha! I was thinking more along the line of air cooled VW to keep the Bus OG

[Zach Gomulka]

The biggest type 4 you can reliably build.

[Jim Ratto]

what year is your Transporter?

[Fasterbrit]

1967 Jim

[Jim Ratto]

1967 Jim

Still swingaxle with reduction boxes? If so, driving a high hp Bus with swingaxle and reduction-gears can be "interesting"
I have helped set up two busses as such...  they acted very strangely when you goosed the pedal... they went positive camber and jumped around like rabbits on speed. The faster of the two busses I built was my dad's 1959 truck, 2054cc, big heads, conservative cam, big Weber 44IDFs, lowish CR. The thing flew (if you could get it to "hook up"). I used to stomp the gas and it would pigeon-toe, and smoke the tire, then do this bunny hop thing and then take off.... what was fun was beating the living crap out of slick-guys in their 300Zx's and 944's around town or getting on freeway. Of course, with the gearing, they'd blow by me after 65mph or so, but it took a while for them to catch me. 

Anyway, I would build a 2332cc with a good new case or really good old German case, VW heads, 42 x 37, low CR, small ports, probably K8 or similar cam, 44IDFs with 36mm vents, you should have a nice flat power spread from idle to 5500 or so and it will run nice and cool (low CR and some duration) given that you run the good fan shroud etc, equip a good oil cooler into full flow.
I know some guys are going to say the K8 is too wild, but trust me, it isn't.

[Black Sheep]

Much as I hate to say it Matt , I think you will be better off with a with a diesel motor on there for torque and economy  .
 Dave Palmer stuck a french unit in a samba a few years back with a conversion plate with little fuss pr bother .
 

[Martin Greaves]

Torquey motor

86x101


 

[Jon]

First you need to do is getting rid of the reduction boxes, unless you want the rabbit behavior...

[Zach Gomulka]

Wait a minute... is this a Bay Window (IRS) or a '67 (RGB)

[Fastbrit]

Gimme an 'S'
Gimme a 'U'
Gimme a 'B"
Gimme an 'A'
Gimme an 'R'
Gimme a U'

And waddya got?

The answer to all your prayers!  )

[Jon]

Wait a minute... is this a Bay Window (IRS) or a '67 (RGB)

You are right, it says Bay, so that makes it a 68... and then the sensible engine choice is a Porsche 6.

[Torben Alstrup]

Gimme an 'S'
Gimme a 'U'
Gimme a 'B"
Gimme an 'A'
Gimme an 'R'
Gimme a U'

And waddya got?

The answer to all your prayers!  )

It will definitely be the best bang for the buck.
If you want to stay aircooled, why not build a type 4, 2 liter, maybe 2110,  - turbo. That´ll give you the torque you need for towing the trailer, and then some.
T

[Berger]

Gimme an 'S'
Gimme a 'U'
Gimme a 'B"
Gimme an 'A'
Gimme an 'R'
Gimme a U'

And waddya got?

The answer to all your prayers!  )

Do NOT swear in church man!!   

If you want a nice torquey engine, I can recommend 87x82, engle W100, CR 8,5-9,0 with stock heads, and a set of 44`s.
Nice strong power, low cost and lots of torque.

Berger

[Phil West]

Thinking of building a nice big, torquey motor for my Bay Westy that will tow my racecar this year. The car probably weighs 1600 lb and the trailer is very light at 400 lb. Any suggestions on a good engine spec for towing? Let's have some ideas fellas!

Matt,

Glad the cars's nearly ready!?  What motor do you need for your tow vehicle?  Well that depends on your budget!  Mine was tight for the '67 so I put in a 1956cc - the 76mm crank gave me approx 1mm clearance on the engine bay ( so no need to modify - went in perfect!) and little work required to clearance the case.  in addition my insurance was unchanged going up from a 1776cc and I get decent economy.  By all means build a 2.4l monster torquer if you can afford to insure it and fill it with petrol at 5 quid a gallon!  That would have been my first choice    I had to take extra steps on the cooling but it now tows at 60mph fine and pretty cheaply!  More dosh left over for the racecar....

Godd luck and hope to see you out this year

Phil

[yvre]

Wait a minute... is this a Bay Window (IRS) or a '67 (RGB)

You are right, it says Bay, so that makes it a 68... and then the sensible engine choice is a Porsche 6.

Would be my choice too.
Just find a nice 2.7 and you're good to go.

[Fasterbrit]

Sorry for the slight confusion, it is an October 1967 Bay so I guess it makes it a 68 model.
Ok, the FK8 has been recommended to me several times by those in the know - thanks Jim, John Maher. Sounds like that could be the go. Now I have spare ali 94mm case at the mo and a nice 82 mm crank, so that'll make 2276cc of torque. I have some Scat Super D heads with 42 x 37.5 valves and some CB 1.4: rockers. Thinking on 8.8 CR. What do you reckon guys?

[benssp]

Sorry for the slight confusion, it is an October 1967 Bay so I guess it makes it a 68 model.
Ok, the FK8 has been recommended to me several times by those in the know - thanks Jim, John Maher. Sounds like that could be the go. Now I have spare ali 94mm case at the mo and a nice 82 mm crank, so that'll make 2276cc of torque. I have some Scat Super D heads with 42 x 37.5 valves and some CB 1.4: rockers. Thinking on 8.8 CR. What do you reckon guys?

DOWIT

[Jim Ratto]

Sorry for the slight confusion, it is an October 1967 Bay so I guess it makes it a 68 model.
Ok, the FK8 has been recommended to me several times by those in the know - thanks Jim, John Maher. Sounds like that could be the go. Now I have spare ali 94mm case at the mo and a nice 82 mm crank, so that'll make 2276cc of torque. I have some Scat Super D heads with 42 x 37.5 valves and some CB 1.4: rockers. Thinking on 8.8 CR. What do you reckon guys?

I would stay right @ 8.0:1 and no higher.
Consider the constat load your haul will apply to the engine. Only at constant-state cruise will your engine not be working really hard. But imagine how hard it will be working pulling your load away from a stop...  or climbing an incline or overtaking a slower car on the highway. I think, personally, 8.8:1 is too high. If I were building it, I would set it up @ 7.8-8.0:1 and tune it accordingly.
Otherwise, I think you're headed in the right direction. Good thing it is an IRS Bus!
Lots of room to mount a good sized Setrab cooler under the car too. Do everything you can to keep oil temp under 100C.

take care,
Jim

[richie]

Waterboxer??  just pull it out the race car to tow it,then at the track put it back in,bit like Bergs did with the dragster

cheers richie,uk

[Fasterbrit]

Hey Richie, how you doing? Got some nice parts accumulating? When you back? Fancy coming down to Cornwall for a few days of nailing some old racecar together?

[james wotton]

I've been towing my car with a 1641cc,c25 cam , 40 drla's 1.4 rockers, stock cleaned up heads dual springs, 7.5:1 cr it all good but does suffer on long inclines.
sounds like you got some nice bits knocking about lower cr would be better for towing for sure.

[Fasterbrit]

Ok... 2276cc, FK8, Scat Super Ds, CB 1.4:1 and 8.0:1 CR. As it's a Bus, I was going to go for Dual 40 DRLAs with 34 mm vents. Will lose a bit of top end over 45's, but will gain a bit more torque lower down. What do you reckon Jim? Guys? I have some 45 Dells with 38mm vents, but reckon it will be a bit peaky with those for a tow truck!

[Fasterbrit]

Hey Phil, what carbs do you run on your Bus? Thanks, Matt

[Jim Ratto]

Ok... 2276cc, FK8, Scat Super Ds, CB 1.4:1 and 8.0:1 CR. As it's a Bus, I was going to go for Dual 40 DRLAs with 34 mm vents. Will lose a bit of top end over 45's, but will gain a bit more torque lower down. What do you reckon Jim? Guys? I have some 45 Dells with 38mm vents, but reckon it will be a bit peaky with those for a tow truck!

Actually..... 38mm is just a tick bigger(37mm ideal) than I would suggest for a nice flat torque band and good throttle response and engine cooling.  You have to remember you have some big lungs to fill (569cc per cyl)...to make good power, you need some carb area. If you were talking 2000cc or smaller, the 40mm would probably work fine, but for a big cc motor like yours, the 38mm choke will work great.

[stealth67vw]

My dad had a 1968 bus and I built a 1776 with a CB 2241 (.429" x 286* or .386" at cam x 240* @.050) stock heads with duals springs, 7.7:1 CR, 1 3/8 header with dual QPs, DMS c/w crank, and 34mm Baby Dells and he towed his 17ft. boat with it a few times.

[Phil West]

Hey Phil, what carbs do you run on your Bus? Thanks, Matt

Twin 40 dells for economy.  Richie's just been kind enough to pick me up the CB horizontal discharge update kit which hopefully will give me a bit more torque.

[Phil West]

Ok... 2276cc, FK8, Scat Super Ds, CB 1.4:1 and 8.0:1 CR. As it's a Bus, I was going to go for Dual 40 DRLAs with 34 mm vents. Will lose a bit of top end over 45's, but will gain a bit more torque lower down. What do you reckon Jim? Guys? I have some 45 Dells with 38mm vents, but reckon it will be a bit peaky with those for a tow truck!

Oh and the chokes are 34s.  We put in a Scat (C35?) cam, the one that gave the most torque for my revs at 50-60mph.  If you want more from your 45s take a look at the update kit on CB's site.....low end torque a big plus.  I went for a Mesa 96 plate cooler running from the sandwich plate, with 8" fan with manual switch control, air ducting into behind fanshroud, holesawed the decklid behind the number plate and air ducting through the floopan into the Mesa fan, plus the ally cooling fin surround for the HP-1.  Finally jetted it to 13.7 on the LM-1 to run a bit cooler.  Now for the 5 hour tow I can maintain 180F (82 celcius) on the flat in 70F air temp.  Up long hills and I'm looking at 205F 96C fully loaded.  Once the air temp gets up towards 80-85F I see linear increases in oil temp so have to be a bit more careful on the hills.  Sometime when I forget to turn off the fan the temp drops down to 160 (71C)!