front mounted oil coolers?

[Harry/FDK]

here's what I did to force cold air (compared to ambient near cooler) through my Setrab

Jim, where do you "pick-up" or "intake" youre fresh air ?

[Jim Ratto]

here's what I did to force cold air (compared to ambient near cooler) through my Setrab

Jim, where do you "pick-up" or "intake" youre fresh air ?

the "opening" is just below/behind RH rear torsion tube. It's a simple "box" about 10" wide, 3" high, I used two 113255165 VW fresh air pipes and 113119585B grommets going through rear wall of "scoop", connected to two 50mm Volvo hot-air hoses p/n 946841 that run up over trans and into duct I made to feed cooler/fans. I think it may work "too well" as last Sunday I was running hard up 57 freeway and once oil got to 180F or so (when fan is triggered by thermo switch), and the fan came on, the temp would drop a bit below 180F. I may switch thermo fan temps,

Thanks,

[Harry/FDK]

PM

[Peter]

hey guys,
what about bike coolers?
from a bmw 1100

[Torben Alstrup]

OK for additional cooling setups.
T

[danny gabbard]

now that I've moved to nevada a heater is a little more important, but I got rid of everything heater wise. So what I've been thinking of is putting the a cooler under rear seat and blowing air over and through cooler and venting to at least my feet area in winter and through bottom of car in summer, any ideas , do's and don'ts any body?

[Lee.C]

now that I've moved to nevada a heater is a little more important, but I got rid of everything heater wise. So what I've been thinking of is putting the a cooler under rear seat and blowing air over and through cooler and venting to at least my feet area in winter and through bottom of car in summer, any ideas , do's and don'ts any body?

Funny you mention this as I had a similar idea for the Manx as it gets a bit cold at night here in the uk/europe - I think it would be a great idea in a bug I might even do it to PROJECT 66 

[Neil Davies]

now that I've moved to nevada a heater is a little more important, but I got rid of everything heater wise. So what I've been thinking of is putting the a cooler under rear seat and blowing air over and through cooler and venting to at least my feet area in winter and through bottom of car in summer, any ideas , do's and don'ts any body?

I remember seeing a kit that was set up to do just that several years ago, think it was a kit car supplies company, possibly Europa that sold it. I'll have a look!

[Jim Ratto]

now that I've moved to nevada a heater is a little more important, but I got rid of everything heater wise. So what I've been thinking of is putting the a cooler under rear seat and blowing air over and through cooler and venting to at least my feet area in winter and through bottom of car in summer, any ideas , do's and don'ts any body?

Or leave cooler up under car by transaxle, but duct hot waste air into one of the heater ducts going into body? Then you can use stock heater outlets on driver's side and shut them on and off?

[Diederick/DVK]

cool idea jim!

[nicolas]

now that I've moved to nevada a heater is a little more important, but I got rid of everything heater wise. So what I've been thinking of is putting the a cooler under rear seat and blowing air over and through cooler and venting to at least my feet area in winter and through bottom of car in summer, any ideas , do's and don'ts any body?

Or leave cooler up under car by transaxle, but duct hot waste air into one of the heater ducts going into body? Then you can use stock heater outlets on driver's side and shut them on and off?

yeah you could do that, but it also will allow exhaust gasses to come in and that is not so good. i thought about it and when you end up in a traffic jam that is going to happen... BUT you can enjoy heating untill you go unconscious and afterwards you won't feel much anyway... 

[Jim Ratto]

now that I've moved to nevada a heater is a little more important, but I got rid of everything heater wise. So what I've been thinking of is putting the a cooler under rear seat and blowing air over and through cooler and venting to at least my feet area in winter and through bottom of car in summer, any ideas , do's and don'ts any body?

Or leave cooler up under car by transaxle, but duct hot waste air into one of the heater ducts going into body? Then you can use stock heater outlets on driver's side and shut them on and off?

yeah you could do that, but it also will allow exhaust gasses to come in and that is not so good. i thought about it and when you end up in a traffic jam that is going to happen... BUT you can enjoy heating untill you go unconscious and afterwards you won't feel much anyway... 

"I have become comfortably numb"

[ian c]

now that I've moved to nevada a heater is a little more important, but I got rid of everything heater wise. So what I've been thinking of is putting the a cooler under rear seat and blowing air over and through cooler and venting to at least my feet area in winter and through bottom of car in summer, any ideas , do's and don'ts any body?

i was talking about this with that electric beetle dude .
was gonna do it to my sisters westy , but she said she doesnt want a heater (hardcore!!)
his plan was to install ballvalves on the oil lines under the rear seat and simply turn off in summer
he said something about fans not being strong enough to push through heater channels , and its better just to fill the cabin from the rear seat , or mount under dash on passenger side . (this option unexceptable to me)

scissor sisters or floyd ??

[Lee.C]

I am glad other loungers have been thinking about this idea - I'm not the only wierdo that sits around at night thinking up strange new ideas for my "project" then   

Under the rear seat opposite the battery seems like a cool idea to me, not only does it mean you have "Some" heat in the car with NO heat exchangers it also mean the cooler will ALWAYS be protected 

I also like the idea of the Ball Valves 

[Torben Alstrup]

There was a Texas based (I think) company that used to sell a kit with fans and all for oil assist heating in the passenger compartement years ago. I bought a couple of sets at the time, for some all year cars. We installed them under the rear window, blowing up/forward. And they actually helped keeping the front window defrosted too, because of the somewhat dryer air inside. We hooked them up directly to the engine and then had a thermostatic controlled  outside extra cooler to stabilize things. It was hardly ever active in the cold months though.
It was´nt as good as a gas heater, but certanly a significant help to keep a comfortable temperature even on cold days.
T

[Neil Davies]

now that I've moved to nevada a heater is a little more important, but I got rid of everything heater wise. So what I've been thinking of is putting the a cooler under rear seat and blowing air over and through cooler and venting to at least my feet area in winter and through bottom of car in summer, any ideas , do's and don'ts any body?

Or leave cooler up under car by transaxle, but duct hot waste air into one of the heater ducts going into body? Then you can use stock heater outlets on driver's side and shut them on and off?

yeah you could do that, but it also will allow exhaust gasses to come in and that is not so good. i thought about it and when you end up in a traffic jam that is going to happen... BUT you can enjoy heating untill you go unconscious and afterwards you won't feel much anyway... 

But think about where the air comes from in a regular VW heating system? From outside the car, through the rear window vents and into the engine bay, through the heat exchangers and then into the car. If you're in a traffic jam, surely you're going to get exhaust gasses coming through that system too? Or are you working on the theory that the cooler duct on Jim's system is closer to the ground and therefore to the exhausts of other cars? If so, you've got a point!

[Harry/FDK]

This worked for me.

[ian c]

I am glad other loungers have been thinking about this idea - I'm not the only wierdo that sits around at night thinking up strange new ideas for my "project" then   

Under the rear seat opposite the battery seems like a cool idea to me, not only does it mean you have "Some" heat in the car with NO heat exchangers it also mean the cooler will ALWAYS be protected 

I also like the idea of the Ball Valves 

he said it would be better to run the internal "heat exchanger" in ADDITION to your normal engine oil cooler .
cant remeber why though . maybe it was due to the valves giving the ability to shut down oil flow ??

pm me an address anmd i''ll forward you the email convos .
the guy worked with moved air , and new what was what with the fan side of thinfgs .
i was looking at fitting solenoid valves instead of ball-valves and having a switch on the dash . he told me they could be worked in-line with the 2 speed fan switch he was using . (IIRC )

[Lee.C]

"i was looking at fitting solenoid valves instead of ball-valves and having a switch on the dash" 

Again great minds think alike dude - Just as I posted I thought of that idea 

I will drop you a PM soon dude 

[ian c]

lemme know , and i will search through the thousands of useless emails i have stored .... 

[banditina]

BUt aftermarket Bugpack without fan is not good for a 1776cc engle 120 IDA48 motor?
i MUST to install a MESACOLER, cagero ECC... ECC...


can i see a photoes of right installation position?

[bugkeeper]

A popular mount is to put it on the rear, like the system cagero do.
Front mounted are more for german looker.

How on earth does this cooler get any air through those tiny little slots? A giant oil cooler is only as good as the cooling medium passing through it and if there is no flow, it just isn't going to cool. Looks like an expensive waste of money to me...
Ditch that ridiculous air scoop and fabricate one that works and that cooler would be a winner.

The Cagero Oil cooler works extremely well, you can even add a second one to the right side of the car if you want. I only once run into a problem after hunting a Chrysler Crossfire on the German Autobahn towards the Swiss boarder. At sustained Highway speeds above 100 mph. Actually sometimes at 5800rpm in the 4th gear, what equals 190 km/h. This was on the trip back from EBI1 and it was quite warm outside. My engine oil temp never went above 110°C. But then it happened…. A traffic jam at the boarder to Switzerland, slow stop and go and my engine oil jumped to 120-130°C and my Oil pressure dropped to around 0.25 bar at idle (the green light came intermittent on). This scared the shit out of me, I switched the engine off to let it cool down. So I decided to add an electric fan to the otherwise well engineered Cagero cooler. It is a thermostatically controlled puller fan from SPAL. It is small but extremely powerful. It is normally used on Trial Motorcycles (Beta). Trial Motorcycles need powerful fans because the operate at very slow speeds. This takes the danger out of suddenly running out of airspeed… he, he, he… 



Long oil lines create pressure drops, I don’t like front oil coolers… My opinion. Look at all the rear engine pure bred Italian, German and British (Lotus) cars. Most have their oil coolers in the rear wheel well. At least somewhere in the back.

Oil pumps, never run bigger than 26mm pumps with the original oil cooler in place.26mm is enough in a good engine. The volume and pressure of larger pumps keep the stock “thermostat” closed and the result is a much higher oil temperature with pressure loss. You might wonder why, since you are already running this big bad ass oil pump… If gut out all the original flaps and the original oil cooler and you rely only on external coolers you may or must (front oil cooler) use 30mm.

I run a 26mm pump with Cagero cooler, piston squirters and a turbo which needs lubrication as well. 26mm seems to be enough for me.

My 2 cents…

Cheers Dom 

[ian c]

Long oil lines create pressure drops, I don’t like front oil coolers… My opinion. Look at all the rear engine pure bred Italian, German and British (Lotus) cars. Most have their oil coolers in the rear wheel well. At least somewhere in the back.

my carrera has the oil-cooler in the front wheel well .
i have a second cooler to go in the opposite one , like on the rsr3.8 .

so i guess porsche motorsport disagrees with you

[ian c]

BUt aftermarket Bugpack without fan is not good for a 1776cc engle 120 IDA48 motor?
i MUST to install a MESACOLER, cagero ECC... ECC...


can i see a photoes of right installation position?

heres mine . excuse the mess !!!

[Lee.C]

BUt aftermarket Bugpack without fan is not good for a 1776cc engle 120 IDA48 motor?
i MUST to install a MESACOLER, cagero ECC... ECC...


can i see a photoes of right installation position?

heres mine . excuse the mess !!!

DUDE that looks rather risky

[ian c]

hopefully newell will have removed most of the sand/oil with his hands/head when i get to see the car next

as you can see , the cooler is new . it had a hole ripped in it (surprise) and a new one was put on just so the engine could be run while it was tested/put in storage .

tiger motors fitted the new one  for me , and they wanted to place somewhere else , but thats a job for the future

[Bruce]

DUDE that looks rather risky

Being centered to the axle means that when you hit a bump, the cooler rises with the car.  If you run a Berg style intermediate mount, any rocks that kick up will get deflected out of the way. 
Wouldn't bother me to put the cooler there.

[Lee.C]

DUDE that looks rather risky

Being centered to the axle means that when you hit a bump, the cooler rises with the car.  If you run a Berg style intermediate mount, any rocks that kick up will get deflected out of the way. 
Wouldn't bother me to put the cooler there.

Its not the "Bumps" I'm worried about so much - its Road debris!! the Cooler is also now the LOWEST point on the chassis - NOT A GOOD IDEA!! just my 2 cents though 

[Bruce]

If you have a Berg style intermediate mount, IT is the lowest point on the chassis.

[Lee.C]

If you have a Berg style intermediate mount, IT is the lowest point on the chassis.

Hmmmm I guess but fitting a berg mount JUST so you can mount the cooler there - seems alittle wierd to me