IDA carburetor problems!!!

[GetBackOnTrack]

I have a problem with my new engine:

Its allmost impossible to set the engine to "normal iddle" when the engine is cold it seems to be okey, about 1200 rpm. But when it gets hot the engine is acting freaky, runs up and down from 2000 to 1500 rpm, and sometimes it runs out if I dont punch the speader pedal. Another thing, if im going down the road without touching the speader and I hit the brakes, the engine dies, and it happens EVERY time. So im thinking it might be the floater in my carburetors, but When I look down through the stacks I cant seem to see any fuel comming out wrong.

Anybody have an idea off what is wrong here. Furtermore, somebody know how to set the float height right?

Its driving me crazy not knowing what is wrong, hope somebody have some good answers.

engine spec:

2387 type 1
fk89 cam
comp: 13:1
competition eliminator heads
51.5 Idas (the reproduced ones with 3 mm glass ball vents) Jets are 180 main and 200 air. and 60/120. I have the mixture screws turned out 1.5 rounds.

Regards, Jakob

[Frank LUX]

Check Your Accelerator Cable, if it is an Aftermarket one replace it by a Genuine VW one or one that is not a Single wire...!!!

And replace those Glass Ball Needle and Valves with Brass 3.0 ones...

The 3.0 are availble at DRD and Berg's...

Frank

[GetBackOnTrack]

Ok Frank. I know I have a "single" cable, il exchange it and see what happens.

Do you have a link to DRD?, dont wanna order at Bergs.

Thanks for the input, any other sugestions by the way?

[Rasser]

Just throwing in some guees work:

float adjustment, to high ?
fuel pressure to high ?
carb/manifold/head leak ? (sucking air)

sounds to me like the chambers are flooded.

Is it the same carb/fuelpump setup as you ran last year, and if so - did the problems first occur this year ?

[GetBackOnTrack]

When I got the carbs the float height was to high, fuel was pouring out everywhere, so I got it adjusted to a lower point that seems to wor, after some trial and error. But dont actually know if the hight is right, how will I know? All I know is what I can see, and they dont seem to "drewl" now.

I have played back and forth with the pressure, but It doesnt seem like the glass ball vents in the carbs care about whatever pressure I feed them. Its at 4 psi now according to my earl pressure gauge. And the screw in the regulator is allmost turned all the way in.

Jakob.

[besserwisser]

IF you are at 4 psi and it is turned down as low as you can go and you have a holley regulator you have the wrong one. You need the one that goes down to 3psi ( repairkit with the red sring). The glassball valves can go down even further with no problems since it has much more flow than regular valves. You can find the float levels on the internet with instructions on how to set it. I have the info but its hard to describe in text how to do it. Search on the word misab or float level IDA48.

[GetBackOnTrack]

You are right about the pressure. I dont understand either.. But honestly I find it hard tobelieve what the earl gauge tells me. Last year I ran the same blue holley fuel pump and regulator.. I borrowed a friends gauge back then and had the pressure turned down to 3,4 psi. But this year when I turned the pump on the pressure ran right up between 9-12 psi. Then I turned the screw in some more and came up with 4-5 psi.

I know it isnt the regulator thats something wrong with. Borrowed my friends new regulator which showed up with the same readings. I even took my own regulator apart just to check that everything seemed right, and it did..

Hmm come to think about it.. Its probably that damn pressure thats fouling around with me. But the thing I dont understand is I have turned the setting screw allmost all the way in and it still pours out around 4-5 psi. And last year (with same pump and regulator) I had no problem setting it to 3,4 psi


Anybody have a clue what that damn pump is injecting itself with   ??

[Frank LUX]

Get a Holley Red Regultor instead of the Blue regulator...!!!

Here is the link for the 3.0 : http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=542380

Frank

[John Rayburn]

Agreed, you need the red regulator, set at 3 psi, and ditch the glass balls.

[Torben Alstrup]

Hello.
I am NO expert in IDA´s. but I thought that the glass balls were better than the brass ones. Apparently I´m wrong. Anybody care to ellaborate on that ?
Is it the brass version that is able to hold up to 7 psi pressure ?

T

[Jon]

To regulate pressure you need to have flow threw the regulator... into a bucket or something. If its working against a closed float valve the pressure will rise above what you initially dialed it in to.

[Frank LUX]

Hello.
I am NO expert in IDA´s. but I thought that the glass balls were better than the brass ones. Apparently I´m wrong. Anybody care to ellaborate on that ?
Is it the brass version that is able to hold up to 7 psi pressure ?

T

No More than 3,5 PSI with IDA's nomatter what Needle and Valve you using!!!

But you should not use the Glass Balls...

Frank

[Bruce]

.... thought that the glass balls were better than the brass ones.

Although they flow more, glass ball valves don't control the fuel level well enough to work on the street.  Many have tried and given up.

[John Rayburn]

Everybody I know that's used the glass balls got rid of them . They all had problems with the carbs blubbering over with fuel.

[Udo]

I only use the glass ball needle and seats , most of them work well  . If you can not see any fuel running down to the throttle plates they do not leak . Sounds like you have the wrong idele jets and you must try to get it run at idle by turning the idle screws .

Udo

[Jim Ratto]

I would try to simplify your situation as much as you can and get a baseline so you know where you're headed

I just battled fuel pressure and float level issues myself. Turned out to be two issues..... an inaccurate fuel pressure gauge and not enough float arc. I could "kind of" make the car run better (or worse) through jet changes, but it was never "right." no matter which jets I screwed in or out, nothing would make the engine respond. I had a lean issue (gauge was reading 4.5psi, but was actually under 2psi and on top of that, one float was not allowing full opening of needle valve).

I would first make sure your float levels are exact. You can find specs online (I think the float tab needs to be .953" below cover of carburetor surface while crest of float needs to be 5.5-6.0mm above same surface. Needle valve needs to be 25.0mm from gasket surface of carb cover in closed position), don't guess on them, use a depth mike or calipers and get them right. Next i would find factory Weber needle valves, your big cc motor probably could use 3.00's. I don't care for the Grose jet valves and I have never used the glass ball type, the Grose jets seemed to cause flooding in my car and in my boss' old racecar. Replaced both with Weber valves and fixed the problems (given that fuel pressure is correct).
Next I would make sure you have no more than 3.5psi going to carbs while it's idling. On my Holley red regulator that means it is screwed IN pretty far. Get a good gauge (a good diagnostic setup with 1/8NPT). You can plug it when gauge isn't in use, or get a good ride-a-long gauge (not liquid filled.... it will change it's accuracy when it gets warm/cold....chased my tail with one of those too).
The carbs jetting and mixture settings would be the last thing I played with because none of it will matter if the steps above are skipped or missed. You probably need 65 idles with 120 air holders to get it to idle solidly. Your idle-stop-speed screws should only be opened like 1 turn from contact with lever. Mixture screws should all be about 3/4 turn out from seated. And don't forget your initial and total advance. I didn't see where you have it set. Advance can make your car idle funny and osciallate too. (why I run locked at 30deg). If float levels are too low, then the jet wells don't have enough reserve to get mains to "come in" on time and you'll get a big lean hole on acceleration off idle. Too rich and you have the mains and idles trying to fight each other to (over) feed the motor too "early." (too high of fuel level in wells).
So many things can cause running issues... valve adjustment, dirty plugs, timing off, vacuum leaks.....  that's why you need to find a good baseline and KNOW everything is that way it should be,

Good luck
Jim

[GetBackOnTrack]

Thanks a lot for your post Jim, thats really usefull stuff for me right now.. I will print out what you wrote to me here and follow it step by step and get back to you guys to tell you what I come up with when im done..

Have allready ordered a red regulator and the 3 mm needle valves.

By the way I run 28 total advance at 3000 rpm.


Thanks again Jim..

[Jim Ratto]

Thanks a lot for your post Jim, thats really usefull stuff for me right now.. I will print out what you wrote to me here and follow it step by step and get back to you guys to tell you what I come up with when im done..

Have allready ordered a red regulator and the 3 mm needle valves.

By the way I run 28 total advance at 3000 rpm.


Thanks again Jim..

you're welcome. You might want to turn the advance up to 30 and have it come in much sooner... by 1500-1800rpm. What distributor are you using?

[GetBackOnTrack]

OK.. Im running a full msd system with 6al box Jim

[Jim Ratto]

OK.. Im running a full msd system with 6al box Jim

ok I would lock advance out then and turn CD box on separately from starter.