Ultimate low budget gearbox!

[Neil Davies]

Right, I'm getting a bit narked with not being out on track - last time i went down the strip was summer 2005! I've got a car (swingaxle bug), I've got a motor (2007cc, FK87, 48IDFs, ran mid 12's in my racecar) but if I put the two together I'm going to blow the stock '67 box to pieces.
I want to be able to drive on the street (around town and on motorways!) and make the odd run on the track - this isn't going to be a slicks and wheelies race car, just a hot cal looker. I've got a stock 1970 1500-model 'box at home (4.12 R&P) so would it be enough to fit a superdiff and heavy-duty sideplate to that? If not, what else do I need to do?

[Frank LUX]

That is a Question for Peter at the Cogbox...

Frank

[benssp]

poormans posi

[Neil Davies]

That is a Question for Peter at the Cogbox...

Frank

I know, and as he's a fellow Outlaw I should really go and have a chat!

[Frank LUX]

That is a Question for Peter at the Cogbox...

Frank

I know, and as he's a fellow Outlaw I should really go and have a chat!

See, that was simple...

Frank

[rebel]

Could you, please, share the info with the loungers after that chat?

[lowfastbus]

"Besserwisser" on here could give you some very good answers to your question...
Hope he reads this.

[richie]

Right, I'm getting a bit narked with not being out on track - last time i went down the strip was summer 2005! I've got a car (swingaxle bug), I've got a motor (2007cc, FK87, 48IDFs, ran mid 12's in my racecar) but if I put the two together I'm going to blow the stock '67 box to pieces.
I want to be able to drive on the street (around town and on motorways!) and make the odd run on the track - this isn't going to be a slicks and wheelies race car, just a hot cal looker. I've got a stock 1970 1500-model 'box at home (4.12 R&P) so would it be enough to fit a superdiff and heavy-duty sideplate to that? If not, what else do I need to do?

You will proberly break 1st gear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The later mainshaft is much stronger

cheers richie,uk

[besserwisser]

Richie got there ahead of me. First gear is weak and will not hold up to more than max 20 runs if you preload the box. The big question is why match up the low budget gearbox with the high budget motor?A chain is not stronger than its weakest link. Now if you change to 9teeth on first gear you are in a totaly new division but you have to have modification s done to third and fourth gears and the hub has to be modified to fit aftermarket gears. Erco used to sell all the parts but I dont know if he stocks them anymore.

[Bruce]

Skip the heavyweight sidecover and put a 9 tooth first gear.  No mods will be necessary if you start with a 73 or later gearbox.  It comes stock with the 9 tooth gear.  Fit stock Bus 002 gears.  Then get some axles and plug them into your superdiff.

[Bewitched666]

I ran a hot 1914 with only a superdiff,heavy duty sideplate and solid mounts.
Worked great on the street and occasional strip use.

[Neil Davies]

You will proberly break 1st gear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The later mainshaft is much stronger

cheers richie,uk

I was worried about that! I know the diff is the weakest point but I wondered what was next in line.

Richie got there ahead of me. First gear is weak and will not hold up to more than max 20 runs if you preload the box. The big question is why match up the low budget gearbox with the high budget motor? A chain is not stronger than its weakest link. Now if you change to 9teeth on first gear you are in a totaly new division but you have to have modification s done to third and fourth gears and the hub has to be modified to fit aftermarket gears. Erco used to sell all the parts but I dont know if he stocks them anymore.

The motor isn't that high budget - it would be to replace, but I got it for a price that I couldn't turn down! But it seems a shame that it's not in a car, and with the weather being so good at the moment I thought it'd be a nice idea to use it!   I thought of using the 1500 'box as a basis after searching on here and reading a couple of posts where someone said about the stock ratios being quite under-rated with the 4.12 R&P. I didn't really want to use a 4.37, and a 3.88 is decent money to start with. I've already got the 4.12!

Skip the heavyweight sidecover and put a 9 tooth first gear.  No mods will be necessary if you start with a 73 or later gearbox.  It comes stock with the 9 tooth gear.  Fit stock Bus 002 gears.  Then get some axles and plug them into your superdiff.

I've got a late 'box somewhere I think. What is the benefit of using the bus gears? Stronger? Better ratios? Both?! I'll use the sideplate as I've already got it (another bit I've picked up over the years!) and I'm told that it'll help to strengthen the case.

[Sam K]

I've run a stock gearbox with my 2332cc IDA engine a couple different times. After blowing up a few "built" gearbox and I still wanted to drive the car (and sometimes race it) while I was waitng for my new 'box. I always switched back to a stock pressure plate and cluch disc and I never launched the car. The last time took some teeth off the spider gears eventuakky, but it took a few months. 

[Germanlkmanx]

Neil 'i'll never drive down a track again' Davies.

Now you know, from one buddy to another, I don't REALLY want to say it....but...well....erm....




























I TOLD YOU SO


There. Did it.

  :

Tom 

[Neil Davies]

Neil 'i'll never drive down a track again' Davies.

Now you know, from one buddy to another, I don't REALLY want to say it....but...well....erm....


I TOLD YOU SO


There. Did it.

  :

Tom 

What can I say buddy, it's an itch that needs scratching!

[Neil Davies]

Well, four years on I STILL haven't got back on track!

The car is repainted and now in (decent weather) daily use, and now the '51 is sold I've got the space to work on an engine and gearbox. So I've been having a good read up, been looking at gearboxes and I've got a '74 1200 'box as a base so i've got the strong first gear. I also picked up a 3.88 R&P off eBay last year, and I've got a superdiff and sideplate too.
Thing is, the yard that the 1200 box came from have just had a Brazilian Bay come in. These wierd things have a Rhino case, 3.88 R&P and IRS, so is this a better starting point for a decent gearbox, allowing for the fact that my superdiff is a swingaxle one?

[Black Sheep]

I ran a 1600 T3 box with a 4:12 in it with my 2007 , then for a short while with my 2165 for a short while till I got my own one of uncle Pete's creations , nothing broke but I never really gave it proper beans off the lights , always waited till I was happily rolling along with 2nd locked in .
It would be a good idea to have a chat with uncle Pete for advice on this me tinks if your unsure as to what an old oily box would be happy with put through it  

[Neil Davies]

Well Glenn, the big man will be doing the proper 'box, just wondered what would do in the mean time! Even tho the '51 is off soon, I still won't have cash to spare for quite a while due to family circumstances. I have to say I like the look of the Brazilian bay 'box - couldn't believe it when I saw the Rhino case!

[JamieL]

If you just want to drive it on the street and enjoy the car with a bit of fun now and then.... then why not keep feeding it cheapo stock 'boxes until you can get your built box done?

You never know how long a good one with a bit of attention might last and if nothing else once the car is in use it will focus your mind/wallet on what you really want/need...!

[Neil Davies]

Jamie, a good point well made! It's not going to see the track at all, just a decent amount of street fun, so I suppose the '74 1200 will be good enough for that!

Now, anyone know if this Brazilian bay box is a good basis for a more serious 'box - i.e. something worth considering as a donor for a race box? Rhino case and 3.88 says yes, but I seem to remember someone saying that the later Rhino cases are softer than a stock mag one, and who knows what gears are in there?

[dannyboy]

if you are planning on running the times to race id keep it going on stock boxes and save up for a built box by pete my old box with a modified first gear took some serious abuse and is still like new after i had pete check it over i only upgraded for a full on race box as i wanted to chase a 10 and knew the stock modified box was on borrowed tme
with the abuse i would be giving it .

[Bruce]

Now, anyone know if this Brazilian bay box is a good basis for a more serious 'box - i.e. something worth considering as a donor for a race box? Rhino case and 3.88 says yes, but I seem to remember someone saying that the later Rhino cases are softer than a stock mag one, and who knows what gears are in there?

Stay away from any Brazilian gearbox.
Starting in 1961, the Germans were on a quest of continuous improvement all the way into the early 80s when they stopped making Type 1 gearboxes.  The Brazilians turned their backs on what the Germans were doing by about 1969.  All those upgrades after then never made it into production in Brazil.
That gearbox will have a weak 10 tooth first, it will have weak 11/17 spider gears, it will have the early pinion bearing.  The Brazilian 3.88 is no match for a German one.

[Neil Davies]

Now, anyone know if this Brazilian bay box is a good basis for a more serious 'box - i.e. something worth considering as a donor for a race box? Rhino case and 3.88 says yes, but I seem to remember someone saying that the later Rhino cases are softer than a stock mag one, and who knows what gears are in there?

Stay away from any Brazilian gearbox.
Starting in 1961, the Germans were on a quest of continuous improvement all the way into the early 80s when they stopped making Type 1 gearboxes.  The Brazilians turned their backs on what the Germans were doing by about 1969.  All those upgrades after then never made it into production in Brazil.
That gearbox will have a weak 10 tooth first, it will have weak 11/17 spider gears, it will have the early pinion bearing.  The Brazilian 3.88 is no match for a German one.

Bruce, that's perfect, exactly what I needed to know! I'll leave that box to the scrap-man then!

if you are planning on running the times to race id keep it going on stock boxes and save up for a built box by pete my old box with a modified first gear took some serious abuse and is still like new after i had pete check it over i only upgraded for a full on race box as i wanted to chase a 10 and knew the stock modified box was on borrowed tme
with the abuse i would be giving it .

Danny, I'll not be racing for a little while yet, so sounds like a stock late box will do. That's saved me some money!

[Eddie DVK]

Ok, but a question, the title is low budget, is cogbox low in price or is it in the rancho and others range?
Planning on a new box for next season. but don t know what to get.
Oh and how long does it take to deliver from Pete s?

Thanks Edgar