Vintage 1970s Chop Top Race Car

[roland]

Agree with all the people here... Really cooool car, why make it a replica of some other car instead of keeping it alive as it was...

[Fastbrit]

Thanks for the info Keith. I hopeto see some pics of it in your next book 

Oh believe me, you will... 

[Russell]

Guys

Theres two ways to look at this car, as was is no more, its a different pan, the roof has been made bigger the engine and box are long gone and changes have been made..... so i have a choice i can try and restore a car that althought looks cool will never be the way it was, Im not drafting roof sections back in to a chop ! and it has very little history other than a few photos ?

If some one can educate me on this and prove me wrong i will happly be proven wrong ?

On the other hand i can use a period chop conversion like the many others lying about and tranform into something that is more known, all be it with a modern engine/box ? Yes iguana is a poor imitation of the real thing however it does catch the imagination of many and does look cool. The original car id has long gone so why not pay homage with a replica ?

White Lighting was an other car that had very little history, however this will live on in its flakey jake guise now and it looks killer.

I agree with you all and im sure that this can be proven that normally i would prefer to keep original 60/70 gassers the same, however if you want to build a replica why not start with one of the many unknow ones.

I know that when you look at Der Express you cannot think about changing it as it carrys its battle scars earnt over many years racing, however this brown car has no marks and its identily has been long lost.......

However, this was a suggestion and a thought and once i get the car i will look at it in far closer detail to see what is best for both it and me, when you have a number of race cars that your are restoring to the way they were, its great to do a replica that although will never be 100% correct will be fun, rather that have someone say thats wrong, thats wrong !!!!!!

In 3 weeks the Underdog replica will be unvailed at EBI2 and even thought (IMHO) looks super cool it is what it is a replica but it may stir the memorys of some of the older guys who were there in the day.

Its also funny that there was NO big line of people trying to buy the car when it was without a pan, burnt paint, etc.... when advertised on the Samba, now it looks complete it should be kept that way

The bad thing about this car is the colour, as its an excellent choice for its period and the thought of chaing it seem stupid, however plans change !

I dont mind opinions as we are all entilted to them, but please dont hammer me if i make one mistake, Im not perfect !

[.]

Then why did you part out the DDS car and use the drivetrain for your type 3 and sell off the remains ?
It definitely had history !
 

[Russell]

Richard Im glad to say you are so WRONG.

I have never parted out a DDS car.

The facts are i purchased a yellow oval from a friend of Mark and Marla, his name was Armen, the car was sold on the samba with the ex. DDS engine that was in the DDS Salt Flats Car 1303, this was removed for a revmaster engine. The yellow Oval is now my European Bug In Race car.

I purchased the 1303 Salts flat Car from Mark and Marla, this car is in my garage and will return to the street/strip (sorry we dont have a salts flat in scotland) with the 3 litre ARPM that is currently in my Type 3, this was the engine from this car according to Mark. T3D are currently putting a type 4 2.3 twin 48 motor in the type 3 for street use.

I think you refer to the DDS tube chassis that also had a 1303 body on it, again i bought this from Mark and Marla, this was purchased with no beetle body as it was crashed but with a karman ghia shell, it also was with no engine. The complete frame and KG body were sold to a friend in Norway whom i beleive had far better skills than me and would be able to put this back on the street/strip, he has already repaired the chassis and rectified some of the changes that were done post Dean owning the car. So im confident its in the correct hands and to be fair better hands than me.

As you all are aware I strive to put these old cars back on the strip where the belong, I DO NOT BUY OLD CARS TO PART OUT.

If this is your opinion of me you really dont know me.   

Richard, Looking forward to your reply ?

[Black Sheep]

[Lee.C]

He He He 

I know you don't do that kind of thing dude - I have always LOVED that car but have never seen any real info on it and i just think it would be cool to return it to it old look BUT having said that what ever you decide to do dude I know it will turn out F$%KIN AWSOME

[speedwell]

dyno don know  some story about the car  he said that to me by mail some month ago

[Russell]

All the pictures bar 1 have the car with 5 stud at the front, however it has spindle mounts fitted as per one of the eariler photos ?

[Lids]

If i wasn't having a kid in september, i would have seriously thought about buying this and putting it on the road.  Think it would make an awesome road car, just like the old Goss Chop car.  But another old race car is fine by me as well, just so long as its ready for EBI 2 !!!!!!!!

[nicolas]

If i wasn't having a kid in september, i would have seriously thought about buying this and putting it on the road.  Think it would make an awesome road car, just like the old Goss Chop car.  But another old race car is fine by me as well, just so long as its ready for EBI 2 !!!!!!!!

you are very right there Mike. love the car and would make a great gasser/ roadcar (in England) 
hope to see it soon Russell

[Fastbrit]

If i wasn't having a kid in september

Shouldn't you leave that stuff to your wife?

[Jon]

Ahh history, the only thing we don't run out of... it's beeing made as we speak...

I wasn't going to say any more, but I have to get one thing of my chest.

HISTORY... its said that these cars have little history... I bet they have just as much any other gasser... we just haven't heard it yet!
If it wasn't for Keith's book Tarbabe wouldn't be what it is outside USA... Without the book a Inch Pincher copy could have been made out of TarBabe... what an awful thought??!!

Once this pea yellow car hits the magazines people may start to find old photos and 8mm film of it... what if it just happened to race one of the "BIG" boys? How cool would it be to see it as Anderson Bros then? Especially if it raced the Anderson car in the film 

And about people not waiting in line to buy it, you have raised the bar quite a bit when it comes to $$ Russel... most of us know better than to try to outbid you

peace out

And thank heven for Keith's book!

[ESH]

Looking elsewhere in the car world race cars from all forms of motorsport have often fared pretty badly after they are no longer competitive / clasified etc. An icon now it's hard to believe that several Porsche 917Ks were cut up an became 917 20s whilst another was used and subsequently destroyed training fire marshalls at Hockenheim, fortunately a few have survived. Another example is the Pierson Coupe, between 1949 and its early days with the Pierson Bros through to its last pass in the ownership of Tom Bryant the car underwent quite a few changes before being subsequently restored to its original (1949) condition by Bruce Meyer all of which is good but was it not as 'valid' historically in its Tom Bryant form as it was in that form that it set it's last of (many) records? Instead of ending up in Meyer's hands it could have continued racing as was or it could have gone elswhere and come back as something else entirely. You could argue that in some ways despite a sympathetic restoration it is only a replica of what it was and it might just as well be any car under the paint. The last living breathing racing Pierson Coupe was a different somewhat more fragile beaten up old racer but whatever else the fact is it survives. Between '49 and '91 how many of the cars it raced out on the dry lakes over the years survive or are remembered?





This chopped Bug has just about survived and is a very cool slice of history for those of us into this small corner of all things automotive but the thing with a race car is that it can evolve and every change is simply another chapter in a history. Adding a chapter doesn't erase the one previously and the fact that there are new chapters is only ever a positive thing. You can argue that one way is better than another for sure but put it into perspective, this car lives another day and that is good, whichever way it goes. The car was advertised at a pretty affordable price and could easily have been snapped up anonymously and put into service as a new race car but and in that scenario it is unlikely that it would have been preserved as it was either.

Whatever, it'll be good seeing it out on track once again rolling in anger, hopefully that's in the plan somewhere.

 

[Russell]

JHU

I understand your point, but Tar babe was history the day is was printed in Hot Vws and VW greats about 20 years before Keiths book ! All that keiths book has done has educate the rest of us outwith the USA who havent ever seen a old US vw magazine, apart from the american mags, the NHRA was another source for information on which car was considered worthy of its place in History.

I know that not every car can be a famous race car or cal looker, however even today there are cars that standout from the crowd such as foreplay, webbs vert, bernies sticth up, the DAS Muppet racer, Travis IP4, etc.... however there are equally a lot more cars that are up there in times but maybe dont have the hook factor.

Regards the $$ and raising the bar, I was screwed with Tar babe and had no choice to pay up or lose out, the race shop ghia was worth it and the remainder have all been realtive cheap compared to building a new race car...... and mostly under $8000 you cant even buy a decent engine for that.

However..... im not into having a rant or explaing myself, I love this scene, i love the cars and i love the people, I want to see old VW's live again whether they are famous or not.

If my suggestion on this car was wrong, and has offended anyone Im sorry, i was only expressing my feelings......

Long live free speach thats why we are here...........

PS  • noun (pl. forums) a meeting or medium for an exchange of views

[.]

Richard Im glad to say you are so WRONG.

I have never parted out a DDS car.

The facts are i purchased a yellow oval from a friend of Mark and Marla, his name was Armen, the car was sold on the samba with the ex. DDS engine that was in the DDS Salt Flats Car 1303, this was removed for a revmaster engine. The yellow Oval is now my European Bug In Race car.

I purchased the 1303 Salts flat Car from Mark and Marla, this car is in my garage and will return to the street/strip (sorry we dont have a salts flat in scotland) with the 3 litre ARPM that is currently in my Type 3, this was the engine from this car according to Mark. T3D are currently putting a type 4 2.3 twin 48 motor in the type 3 for street use.

I think you refer to the DDS tube chassis that also had a 1303 body on it, again i bought this from Mark and Marla, this was purchased with no beetle body as it was crashed but with a karman ghia shell, it also was with no engine. The complete frame and KG body were sold to a friend in Norway whom i beleive had far better skills than me and would be able to put this back on the street/strip, he has already repaired the chassis and rectified some of the changes that were done post Dean owning the car. So im confident its in the correct hands and to be fair better hands than me.

As you all are aware I strive to put these old cars back on the strip where the belong, I DO NOT BUY OLD CARS TO PART OUT.

If this is your opinion of me you really dont know me.   

Richard, Looking forward to your reply ?

Here is an excerpt from a post on "another forum", notice where it says "chassis and engine" !

Russell Ritchie
Newbie

 Offline

Posts: 14



     Re: Dean Lowry's Pro Stocker, anyone with more details or photos?
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2007, 05:14:46 pm »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have thought about this a great deal and while speaking with mark on the subject, etc I think it would be wrong of me to try and rebuild what dean had done as i could never get it right, it would be a copy. I would prefer buliding a tribute to him (with his heart and soul "Chassis and Engine") he wanted to build a ghia hence the shape and size of the chassis, therfore a purple ghia in DDS style would be very fitting, i think, this way Im not trying to misrepresent dean or his creations.

I hope you all agree, but remember the body can come off the inside will still be the same, hopefully.

Russell

Here is part of an e-mail I recieved from the person that bought what was left of the tube chassis car, he was asking abiout some interior pictures I have of the car.
Notice what he said about the engine !


 Dean Lowrys tube chassie 1303
« Sent to: Richard Roth on: September 28, 2007, 00:11:15 AM »
« You have forwarded or responded to this message. »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I noticed you post regarding the car I have bought. Do you know if someone has got any info/pictures of the car from its early days. I have only found the picture that I posted on the lounge, and some pictures from the time Mark Rielly drove it on the street.

I have been told that Dean made the tube chassie for a Ghia, and that it was Mark Riellys intention to rebuild it like that.

The car has no longer got the 3 liter engine (Russel kept it), and the old 1303 body has been replaced with a Ghia body (center section). I have sourced a Ghia flip front and a rear section for the car over here, and was planning on making a purple DDS Ghia out of it.
 

[Zach Gomulka]

Ehh, do whichever you want. They both look good to me

[Russell]

Richard Thanks I knew i was going to get a reply where further undersatnding and explanation was required..... along with the 2 cars came varoius parts some engine parts etc, it was a job lot, everything or nothing, to say i kept the engine makes it sound like it was complete and in the car, it wasnt and the parts included Deans personnel torque wrench, 100 points trophy and some other stuff. To part out a car means i broke it kept the parts and sold on some of it, please see attached pictures of what i was sold and i will leave it for you all to decided if i personally parted out this car.

Please note the engine in the type 3panel van is/was the one that came with the yellow drag car not with the parts and stuff that came with the garage lot. The ARPM parts that came with the garage stuff were kept as spares for the other engine, such as the 3 pistons !

I can see how i may have misrepresented myself from the post on the cal-look.com but what i was tring to say is that to build a car with Deans heart and sole would need to have  the correct base and the an engine worthy of his skills, i didnt mean his engine exactly !

However, I can assure Im not the bad person you may think i am and too be fair, If im judged on my thoughts on one 70's drag car so be it...... I would prefer to get on with everyone as i know i will need all there help and advice in getting some of these cars back on the track wheater itrs advice or parts hunting, Im pretty sure I dont have a repuatation for buying and selling stuff or trying to cash in on people so i dont really care what anyone thinks, however i would like to think that they would think "Russell, hes ok"

[Russell]

and some more

[ian c]

looks like parts OF a car ,
rather than part OUT a car to me !!

[71CALRIPPER]

Russel why do you have to justify your actions to anybody? They are your cars now you can do what you want with them. Personaly i think you have done nothing but bring the scene back up to the class i love to see.

cool pics anyway though.

Rob

[guillaume]

Russel why do you have to justify your actions to anybody? They are your cars now you can do what you want with them. Personaly i think you have done nothing but bring the scene back up to the class i love to see.

cool pics anyway though.

Rob

100% agree with you Rob.
You make the 70's VW scene alive. Thanks for that.
I am sure that, whatever your choice will be, it will be awsome as always 

[jamiep_jamiep]

Russel why do you have to justify your actions to anybody? They are your cars now you can do what you want with them. Personaly i think you have done nothing but bring the scene back up to the class i love to see.

cool pics anyway though.

Rob

100% agree with you Rob.
You make the 70's VW scene alive. Thanks for that.
I am sure that, whatever your choice will be, it will be awsome as always 

Thirded.

[Jon]

JHU

I understand your point, but Tar babe was history the day is was printed in Hot Vws and VW greats about 20 years before Keiths book ! All that keiths book has done has educate the rest of us outwith the USA who havent ever seen a old US vw magazine, apart from the american mags, the NHRA was another source for information on which car was considered worthy of its place in History.

I know that not every car can be a famous race car or cal looker, however even today there are cars that standout from the crowd such as foreplay, webbs vert, bernies sticth up, the DAS Muppet racer, Travis IP4, etc.... however there are equally a lot more cars that are up there in times but maybe dont have the hook factor.

Regards the $$ and raising the bar, I was screwed with Tar babe and had no choice to pay up or lose out, the race shop ghia was worth it and the remainder have all been realtive cheap compared to building a new race car...... and mostly under $8000 you cant even buy a decent engine for that.

However..... im not into having a rant or explaing myself, I love this scene, i love the cars and i love the people, I want to see old VW's live again whether they are famous or not.

If my suggestion on this car was wrong, and has offended anyone Im sorry, i was only expressing my feelings......

Long live free speach thats why we are here...........

PS  • noun (pl. forums) a meeting or medium for an exchange of views

You are obviously in title to do anything you want with any car you buy, but this being a forum and all I felt like speaking up for the little roof shop... I always like the underdogs... the ones that slips under the radar. I truly believe that a car can look anyway it wants and still hook people by the way they are used...
This one was remembered by Bill S... and thats plenty enugh history for me :-)

[Neil Davies]

I've been watching this with interest! Difficult to comment without pissing people off, and at the end of the day it's not me who's going to be buying the car, and we all know if Russell buys it it's going to the best home it could possibly go to!

My opinion, for what it's worth, and what I'd do if it was my car, is that it shouldn't become a replica of the Anderson Bros car. BUT (and it's a big but!) it would be good to see the gasser become something new, not a replica of something that it wasn't.

For example, using the Pierson coupe from earlier, Mat asked if it was any less valid in its later paint scheme. Its evolution is what makes it what it is, and the yellow chop top should, to my way of thinking, get a new lease of life as something new - like the yellow oval became the Gasser Garage/European Bug In car rather than a replica of something else - the original DDS car for instance. I'd love to see the Flat Four Inch Pincher Too be rebuilt into another version of the Flat Four gasser it was previously - if you wanted an IP2 replica, start from scratch with another shell!

Does any of that make sense,or have I just offended everyone?

[Russell]

Neil I hate You 

My thinking had been why chop a good car if you can buy one already done, and according to the advert this is the best chop hes seen ! Im afraid my thinking was a simple as that..........

However, im now thinking as theres no engine i could turn it in to a EBI BBQ where we could cook burgers in its rear end, chicken in its front end and throw the rubbish in the hole in the roof.

Hey presto you have a cooking and rubbish car all in one and it would still look cool 

[Russell]

Guys, i was wondering

Let me know how many people would buy this car and restore it to eactly the way it was without exception, i.e

repair roof
period engine
make door panel to match
repair all other incorrect parts
repaint in same colour
in order that it looks exactly the same !!!!

Now remember its got spindle mounts and these would have to be kept as it last raced with them fitted......

So its unlikly it would see the road in Europe or the USA, it cant race legally without any majour works and improvements to current Drag Racing standards either in the UK or USA, therefore can only be used as a period show car or a run what you brung with very relaxed rules ?

[ian c]

hey russell .
as you know , i wanted to buy this car .
you snooze , you lose .

my idea was to do a sympathetic restoration , keeping as much as original as possible . and see it again on the strips of so-cal .

i think it could be done without taking away from what it is ...  an old k-gas .

i hear what youre saying , OCIR is no more , K-G is no more . why NOT use it as a basis for something else ??

btw , dont the doors an dash trim remind you of a late 80's stagecoach ?

[ian c]

btw :

i was only stating what my plans for the car were . (and it would be driven on the road !!  )

i dont really have an opinion on what YOU should do with YOUR car .... well .... not one i'd bother you with anyway !!!

however  ........ i think to make your own gassergarage car WOULD , imho , be very , very , very , very , very , very coooooooolll !!!

good luck with the project

[richie]

Guys, i was wondering

Let me know how many people would buy this car and restore it to eactly the way it was without exception, i.e

repair roof
period engine
make door panel to match
repair all other incorrect parts
repaint in same colour
in order that it looks exactly the same !!!!

Now remember its got spindle mounts and these would have to be kept as it last raced with them fitted......

So its unlikly it would see the road in Europe or the USA, it cant race legally without any majour works and improvements to current Drag Racing standards either in the UK or USA, therefore can only be used as a period show car or a run what you brung with very relaxed rules ?

i would like to do something with it,but it wouldnt be restore it to any of its previous guises,i did try to get john to part with it when he first got it and mentioned it to him several times over the last few months[sometimes relating to what was undeneath it in his garage,eh John,did you find it? ]   I dont know if I posses the skills to do a chop myself so this would have provided an ideal canvas,maybe it still will

cheers richie