how many guys use the "drill press" method to set valve spring height?

[Jim Ratto]

it sounded complicated before trying it, after reading the Berg Blue Book, but I tried it back in 1998 or 99 and it was pretty simple. It is time consuming to dial every valve for lift and then crunch springs in the drill press for clearance before bind, but it made a lot of sense. At the time, I had access to a Rimac too, so i could cross reference heights vs pressure. (at the time I was setting my heads up for ERCO triples.... kind of a pain in the ass to get full lift with ERCO modified retainers ). I don't hear of too many others using this method and was wondering what the trick way is for others now. For my motor revamp, I'm still going to use drill press method (I'm at the point now to dial lift up on each valve), but if somebody has an equally effective, but faster way...... 

Thanks guys

[Jim Ratto]

nobody?

[Mike Lawless]

Just so I understand...
You are using the drill press to open the valve to coil bind with the chosen springs installed?

Never done it that way, but I reckon it's foolproof as you are compressing them as installed.

I've measured coil bind on individual springs using the retainer since the inner perch is stepped, by mashing them closed in a vise, and recorded the coil bind value, then subtracted that from actual lift using lite checking springs.

[John Rayburn]

Aren't you glad you asked , Jim?

[Jim Ratto]

Batman.

it's a very siimple procedure, just tedious. You mount a 3/16" steel rod in chuck of drill, mount head on base, attach indicator to 3/16 rod and open ea valve to coil bind and record for each valve. "Installed in Head"
I've tried doing it out of cylinder head and can NEVER repeat same tolearances as when head is in real world assembled state.
The Berg Blue Book explains it really clearly. Better than I can. Their suggestion for clearance to coil bind seems on the tight side imo.

[danny gabbard]

when mark tec-lly built the ghia motor, he used the drillpress method, if you use a mill you dont need dial indicator, just count the # on the handle

[Jim Ratto]

when mark tec-lly built the ghia motor, he used the drillpress method, if you use a mill you dont need dial indicator, just count the # on the handle

good idea.
I did ONE head last night.... took me more than 2 hr to dial lift @ every valve and then back it up with coil bind,
thanks dg

[Peter]

Hi Jim,
i m going through the same process,
i m measuring lift with a dial gauge with the head on the engine..
coil bind was more time consuming i did it with feeler gauges , but to be able to
stick em in between the coils needs a lot of room, so i had to remove and mount valves a lot!
i took me a week or so

[Jim Ratto]

Hi Jim,
i m going through the same process,
i m measuring lift with a dial gauge with the head on the engine..
coil bind was more time consuming i did it with feeler gauges , but to be able to
stick em in between the coils needs a lot of room, so i had to remove and mount valves a lot!
i took me a week or so

  it is time consuming. The first time I tried it this way, it took a few days too.... back and forth swapping shims, trimming pocket in head, cranking on drill press. The head had so many numbers written in felt tip on it I got lost and had to start over! I was looking for .050" before bind with those Ercos and a Clay Smith cam and it was a bitch to get the ERCOS to lift on some valves.
Last night, I dialed 1 head for full lift with real springs/retainers and got .522/.505/.508/.528, 1e, 1i, 2i, 2e, then tesed for coil bind... with these Buugpack springs I have miles of room... more later.

[Harry/FDK]

How about asking UD.

[Jim Ratto]

yeah UD, how about your ideas? 

[Peter]

i pm d him some time ago and  he told me 0.100  before coil bind for a street car

[Jim Ratto]

i pm d him some time ago and  he told me 0.100  before coil bind for a street car

good that's where I am at.

[stealth67vw]

Jim,
I just checked few springs on the Heads Up 044s I got from you and they coil bind at .706 - .710 measured with a Mitutoyo dial indicator mounted on a Bridgeport mill, head tilted at 9 degrees. My cams advertised lift is .561 (FK-45w/ CB 1.4s). Should I put in another .030 of shim to get closer to .100 to coil bind? Springs are Bugpack 4046.

[Jim Ratto]

Jim,
I just checked few springs on the Heads Up 044s I got from you and they coil bind at .706 - .710 measured with a Mitutoyo dial indicator mounted on a Bridgeport mill, head tilted at 9 degrees. My cams advertised lift is .561 (FK-45w/ CB 1.4s). Should I put in another .030 of shim to get closer to .100 to coil bind? Springs are Bugpack 4046.

no you need to measure ACTUAL LIFT at the valves with rockers, pushrods etc

[John Rayburn]

What he said! You might be surprised.

[alex d]

when you hear the coils crunching you know you have gone too far 

[stealth67vw]

Jim,
I just checked few springs on the Heads Up 044s I got from you and they coil bind at .706 - .710 measured with a Mitutoyo dial indicator mounted on a Bridgeport mill, head tilted at 9 degrees. My cams advertised lift is .561 (FK-45w/ CB 1.4s). Should I put in another .030 of shim to get closer to .100 to coil bind? Springs are Bugpack 4046.

no you need to measure ACTUAL LIFT at the valves with rockers, pushrods etc

Oh yeah, I kinda forgot you need actual measured lift at the valve. If my cam lifts .550-.575" at the valve and the springs bind at .706-.710", do I need to shim the springs to .100 or should I just leave them at ~.130 to bind?

[Jim Ratto]

Personally, with the ramps of the FK45 (w/ 1.4) I would shoot for .070"
email me John

[Jim Ratto]

here's a pic of the head now on the engine.... you can see all my chicken scratch written in red and black (black = true lift, red = bind measurement).

[Tony M]

WTF is chicken scratch - i though that was something Sheep does 

[Jim Ratto]

here's an old pic of checking for full travel on my heads

[andy198712]

Very interesting, but why do this over mocking up and using the cam to lift the valves ect? or do you mock up, measure the cam lift at the valve then replicate this on the press?

or am i missing the point?

i have a drill press and keen to try it 

[Martin S.]

I'll ask how my engine builder Steve set the spring height sometime when I get a chance. As you can hear at the start of this vid he says, 'people will tell you that it's too tight, but it's not...'  http://youtu.be/xX3iaHUI-SA

[Jim Ratto]

andy198712... I measure actual lift @ valve using real pushrods and real springs, not light checking springs. The light checking springs will give you a false lift. I mock the motor up with just cylinders. heads, crank/cam, lifters, pushrods, rockers and heads with springs (no shims yet) and lash caps. I roll motor over and measure ful lift @ valve on every valve and wirte it on the fin in black marker. Then I put the head in the drill press like the picture shows and see where bind is (spring stack).
Then I shim springs to gain the travel in between full lift on that valve and coil stack on that valve.
Then I record spring pressure for each spring @ installed and full lift and free length of ea spring.

[andy198712]

Ahhh right I got you, thanks jim, for taking the time to explain that, always great to learn new ways!
That's very interesting about the lighter spring I didn't know that!