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Author Topic: Will cal-look survive?  (Read 15014 times)
Rocket-Racing
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« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2008, 20:01:28 pm »

I don't think cal-look as a style will ever die.
Compared to all these other styles and trends that comes and goes cal-look has a history going some 40 years back and strong roots in the VW society today. I'm sure the following will decrease in some years as kids today have different taste and so many options when it comes to cars, but then again I think the fast simple cars and the history that go with them will appeal to enough of them to keep the scene alive.
After all the look and interest in it is more alive today than 10-15 years ago. At least when it comes to the interest in how it all started and building cars the way they were back then. This internet thing has made a lot of information available and old parts have never been as hot as they are now..

But then what do we define as cal-look?
Of course the style has evolved over the years, almost to the point of no return in the mid eighties then more back on track and inspired by the early cars in later years. By inspired by I mean cars that have lot of the look and spirit of the original look, but often softened up a bit. Comfort is set higher than before, things like bumpers and trim often stay and so on. Nice cars, but not rock hard clean cal-lookers..

There has been a trend here in Europe in recent years where we look back to the roots and make the cars we would have built in the seventies if we had the opportunity. We tend to look back on a history we never had..
I think that's one of the reasons we like to make cars that look like "barnfind lookers". Worn cars that show strong signs of use combined with period cal-look parts and the right touch make the cars that we would love to find but never can..
I guess you can call building cars this way faking history, but who cares as long as it keeps the scene alive and the owners happy  Smiley
The one thing I like most about this approach is that you can build a car without literally blasting it's history and vintage feel away.
The interior still smells old VW, not like a new chinese car  Grin
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against well built clean and shiny cars, I just think that an equally well built battlescarred car with the right touch is no less cal-looker. I think it's more about the total package and the owners ability to make a car in the right spirit than how shiny the paint is.

I know a lot of americans find it hard to "get" this worn looker thing. Of course it was always a goal back in the day to have a nice, clean and shiny car and it still is today. I'm sure the thought of "faking" an old car seems a lot less desirable when you live where the look originated and have had the cars around you since day one. It's more natural that things evolve then to look back. And even I appreciate that there are people that still come up with new ideas and make progress. After all, if everone looks back things have a tendency to stop after a while..

Cal-look will never die.



« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 20:04:56 pm by Rocket-Racing » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2008, 20:05:17 pm »

I don't think cal-look as a style will ever die.
Compared to all these other styles and trends that comes and goes cal-look has a history going some 40 years back and strong roots in the VW society today. I'm sure the following will decrease in some years as kids today have different taste and so many options when it comes to cars, but then again I think the fast simple cars and the history that go with them will appeal to enough of them to keep the scene alive.
After all the look and interest in it is more alive today than 10-15 years ago. At least when it comes to the interest in how it all started and building cars the way they were back then. This internet thing has made a lot of information available and old parts have never been as hot as they are now..

But then what do we define as cal-look?
Of course the style has evolved over the years, almost to the point of no return in the mid eighties then more back on track and inspired by the early cars in later years. By inspired by I mean cars that have lot of the look and spirit of the original look, but often softened up a bit. Comfort is set higher than before, things like bumpers and trim often stay and so on. Nice cars, but not rock hard clean cal-lookers..

There has been a trend here in Europe in recent years where we look back to the roots and make the cars we would have built in the seventies if we had the opportunity. We tend to look back on a history we never had..
I think that's one of the reasons we like to make cars that look like "barnfind lookers". Worn cars that show strong signs of use combined with period cal-look parts and the right touch make the cars that we would love to find but never can..
I guess you can call building cars this way faking history, but who cares as long as it keeps the scene alive and the owners happy  Smiley
The one thing I like most about this approach is that you can build a car without literally blasting it's history and vintage feel away.
The interior still smells old VW, not like a new chinese car  Grin
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against well built clean and shiny cars, I just think that an equally well built battlescarred car with the right touch is no less cal-looker. I think it's more about the total package and the owners ability to make a car in the right spirit than how shiny the paint is.

I know a lot of americans find it hard to "get" this worn looker thing. Of course it was always a goal back in the day to have a nice, clean and shiny car and it still is today. I'm sure the thought of "faking" an old car seems a lot less desirable when you live where the look originated and have had the cars around you since day one. It's more natural that things evolve then to look back. And even I appreciate that there are people that still come up with new ideas and make progress. After all, if everone looks back things have a tendency to stop after a while..

Cal-look will never die.





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louisb
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« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2008, 20:10:07 pm »

I think a good project for one of the mags would be an entry level Cal-look build up. Take a sold starter, make it late model even. And give it the full Cal-look treatment on a beginners budget. Lowered in the front, 356 or 8 spoke repops, 1776 or 1941 with dual kads/IDF 40s, simple interior redo, budget or home grown respray, etc. Put a limit on the budget of say $3000 for the base car and another $5000 or less for the mods. And then build a bitching car that anyone would be proud to drive. (And would be fun to drive.)

--louis
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« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2008, 21:09:58 pm »

When we first started the lounge it was full of young European guys doing their thing... call it a entry level cal-look style... they are to a large degree gone...
With their less than perfect paint and stock interiors they now seek other venues.. hasn't the Lounge/cal-look anything to offer them?

That sounds very strange to me.. Has people really left this forum due to that?

Yes, this is what they tell me...
What you're referring with "presentable car vs. patina" is IMO mostly a cultural difference between Europe and US. Based on some forums I read on regular basis most of the Yanks seem to think that a car with worn out paint automatically looks like it belongs to some poor kid who is flipping burgers for living.

I don't take the credit for bringing that up, but it is an observation I have seen from time to time...

« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 21:11:34 pm by JHU » Logged

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Russell
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« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2008, 21:51:35 pm »

another point to add is that a cal look car is now normally a second car, or a hobby car or a toy, very few of them are used as daily transport and if they are they are bound to look worn with the european weather. back in the day this was there transport so were more work to keep in tip top condition, but well worth the effort.
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« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2008, 02:56:38 am »

of course it can, and for usually less than you think. it doesnt take a million dollars, just patience, common courtesy, some good friends and you can still build one relatively cheap. my 60 rag for instance, i traded some work to a friend for the car and paint job, so far $0, mind you this car was intended for my son and i to put together for his first car. we insstalled rag headliner and windows as soon as it was painted. cloth rag, window rubber and headliner$ 700. since it still didn't look like much, my 14 y.o. son says he doesn't really like it and wants a chevelle, so i say whatever put a tarp over it and dont touch it for another year, all the while picking up parts and pieces at swaps and from friends, spending maybe $1100 on rubber pieces, door panels, running boards and misc. parts. my so is now nearing 15 1/2 and we get him an 70 el camino, same as a chevelle but he can haul his dirtbike to the track, which he decides hes not really into working on, he wants something done already(dont we all). i tell start saving your money cause hes on his own now. ive also been saving my money and have dave folts build me a gearbox$1375, andpick up some 48's $990 and a set of brms $800 plus tires an adjustable front beam w/ discs $400.  i pull the tarp off and make the boy help me seperate body from pan, paint the pan and start installing all the goodies, reaquaint the body and now the car is starting to look like something and the boy is starting to get into it, all the while i'm still planning on giving him the car, but making him put some effort out, while he thinks hes still gonna have to save his money. now by my tally im into this car for about $5000. then out of nowhere my dad goes and buys the little bastard a truck and completely ruins my present to him as he again looses all interest in this car. so now i say screw it this car is mine and build a screamin 78x92 motor,10:5-1 comp. lightly ported heads $4800 to put those 48's on. buy the carpet kit$150, have the seats recovered$700, and buy some bumpers$700. put the rest of this stuff on and have a very nice looking and running car for under $11000 over the coarse of 2 1/2- 3 years. and yes, the little bastard is cryin about how bad he wants this car now, especially after i let him drive it, i hear him tellin his friends how bitchen it is, maybe when he gets out of the air force i might just let him have it. Smiley
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Speed-Randy
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« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2008, 03:01:08 am »

oh yeah, i forgot to mention the look on his face after driving it: PRICELESS. yes he will carry the torch
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deano
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« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2008, 03:18:08 am »

Hmmm, interesting subject. Can we think of anyone among us who has been able to earn a decent living, for the past thirty-plus years, from the California Look?  Huh Grin
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Bill Schwimmer
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« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2008, 03:37:52 am »

Hmmm, interesting subject. Can we think of anyone among us who has been able to earn a decent living, for the past thirty-plus years, from the California Look?  Huh Grin
Any OC Police officer..
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danny gabbard
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« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2008, 04:20:56 am »

Nope, thats why I'm starting the nevada look !!!
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Dave Rosique
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« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2008, 04:46:04 am »

Hmmm, interesting subject. Can we think of anyone among us who has been able to earn a decent living, for the past thirty-plus years, from the California Look?  Huh Grin
Any OC Police officer..
So true Bill...

For me, starting out in the mid 70's as a VW mechanic, then later as a garage owner specializing in air cooled VW, 356 & 912 Porsche, I had my hand in plenty of Cal-Look cars. I didn't really rely solely on those cars to make a living, it seemed I could never charge enough for all the custom work anyway... more like a labor of love. I did however make genuine, long lasting friendships (John Rayburn for instance), gain respect in the local VW community as being a go to guy, and really had a lot of fun working on the very cars that were our passion.
I look forward to keeping the "Cal-look" alive. I'm sure some of the billet croud must think we are a bunch of dinosaurs but I know we all share a passion in this "Brotherhood" for the true look, feel, and even smell that our cars have.
Until I joined this forum, I had no idea that building cars the way we did would still be impacting good people worldwide to this day... doggone awesome if you ask me.
Personally, I believe the "Look" will stay alive, but with all the choices the kids have today along with the "I want it now" mentality, you can see why the off the shelf, throw away, Tuner cars are so popular... although I doubt a 2008 Civic with original "patina" will be sought after 40 years from now.  Wink

~DR.
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danny gabbard
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« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2008, 04:57:03 am »

Amen brother!!! today is kind of the disposable car culture. or cookie cutter crowd. for the kids
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Rennsurfer
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« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2008, 05:37:29 am »

I think you've got it figured out what turns kids on.... the experience. I'm sure something "clicked" with you when you were young, right?

That's actually a good question. All that I know is that I wanted something German and different from what everyone at my high school was driving. They were either gearheads or jocks and drove '69 Camaro Z-28s, Mopars, or whatever other U.S. muscle cars. Most of 'em were nice cars, too. I couldn't seen being a lemming... I was already into punk rock and the new wave thing. Still surfed and skateboarded skateparks... so I was an outcast and misfit because all of those. Fittingly, driving something bright orange (my fave color since I was a toddler), German, and unique was right up my alley. During my entire life, I've been told that what I'm doing isn't gonna amount to anything and still get asked why I continue to skateboard, surf, and mess with cars. I never got that from my fellow VW fanatic friends. Hence why I surround myself with individuals that don't judge me for what I'm into. To everyone else that worries about how what I'm doing is affecting their lives: I'M HAPPY TO RENT SPACE IN YOUR MIND!  Grin

I got teased, a lot, when I first showed up at the races after cruising Whittier Blvd. with my car. But once I started tuning/building engines, they shut up and started giving a little respect. My friend, Al O'Hara (Rosique and Rayburn remember him) and I were the only two that hungout with the gearheads just after high school that had German Cars. I built him a 48IDA 1915cc and I had my 1700cc. But we could hold off the muscle cars enough to keep 'em from saying any further German car jokes. HAHA!! They learned to fear the Cal Look cars and approach 'em with caution after we showed 'em how fast they could go. I told 'em mine was a very small and slow engine compared to my fellow club owners' cars.

To answer your question, Jim, I'm going to have to refer way back to 1967 when I was in kindergarten and my parents took me to our local Porsche/VW dealer and bought our first Savannah Biege '68 Beetle. Ever since we had Volkswagens in our family, I wanted one. Because they were different. I hate following the crowd and VWs have always fascinated me to no end. I knew, back then, that my first car would be a VW. My friends gave me a hard time about it as we'd talk about our future cars back in junior high school. Now, we laugh about it and they all ended up admiring my car and what I accomplished with it. Because that car was my life and my main transportation for six fun years.

I'm thankful that Schwimmer, Rayburn, & Meredith kicked me in the space-bar and shook me outta screen saver mode to build another car before my other lame plan. Which was to wait till my boys were in college in a couple more years. Thank you... you're truly good people and great friends and more like extended family!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 05:40:09 am by DKK_Fred » Logged

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Bewitched666
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« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2008, 07:23:28 am »

I think callook will survive in some way or another,it did until now so i think it will the comming years.Look at guys like Jesse or Died on this forum and some others that are in their 20ties they are building 70's style lookers and i think there is some following.

You will always have the die hards true the years that will keep the spirit up.I think a mayor concern is the pricing of parts etc and young guys who want to make a callooker cant always afford to build a complete car with their school scholarships but still then i think you will have the die hards Cool
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Fastbrit
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« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2008, 08:32:18 am »

Of course it will survive. If it doesn't, I'm stuffed! Cheesy

On the subject of clean and shiny or dull and patinated, all I say is that as long as scruffy paint isn't seen as being the be-all and end-all of a project, then fine. But I firmly believe that when a car is being built from scratch, the ultimate aim should be to have a good paintjob. Maybe not right now, but certainly down the road. It still doesn't stop the car from being driven. Look at Bill's car – it gets used and has been used a lot, but it scrubs up well and looks bitchin' every single time Bill brings it out. Simply saying 'it's all about the stance', or 'it's all about the attitude' is being lazy.

My 2 cents...
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vwcab
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« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2008, 09:15:50 am »

Yes,cal-look will survive.It's been there for so long now.As for the subject on shiny cars,(in my case) I can't afford building a hardcore looker from the beginning.It will take some time(years!!?) Angry ,and money before my looker will be finished.In the meantime i enjoy it the way it is. Grin
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vwcab
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« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2008, 09:23:11 am »

Sorry,the subject(title) is Will cal-look survive?.,and not "A";sorry Undecided Grin
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Dokke/DFL
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« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2008, 10:39:06 am »

Of course ... maybe it will not be the most popular style but it survive !!!

At least my 13 years old son already have a 1300 '72 beetle that he really wants to make it a real cal-looker, and I'm glad with that.
I never forced him anything, so he could easily like german-look or something else.
But I know his friends, and no one have interest in volkswagen beetle ... so that my son have interst in a cal-look beetle is really nice.
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Jon
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« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2008, 12:00:12 pm »

Simply saying 'it's all about the stance', or 'it's all about the attitude' is being lazy.

It may be lazy to say it, but it aint far from the truth...
If you take a stock type 1 and paint it, would it then look like a looker?
But if you take a stock 1 and gave it some "attitude", I bet it would look a lot like a looker...

In my opinion people should spend their money on what gives them the most fun... whether its a engine or paint...
They are all welcome here anyway is the point...
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Dave Rosique
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« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2008, 15:11:08 pm »

Of course it will survive. If it doesn't, I'm stuffed! Cheesy

On the subject of clean and shiny or dull and patinated, all I say is that as long as scruffy paint isn't seen as being the be-all and end-all of a project, then fine. But I firmly believe that when a car is being built from scratch, the ultimate aim should be to have a good paintjob. Maybe not right now, but certainly down the road. It still doesn't stop the car from being driven. Look at Bill's car – it gets used and has been used a lot, but it scrubs up well and looks bitchin' every single time Bill brings it out. Simply saying 'it's all about the stance', or 'it's all about the attitude' is being lazy.

My 2 cents...
I agree.

Most of our cars are works in progress anyway.

I think a finished car should be painted, although I would have a hard time painting a car that had it's 40 year old paint that had been cared for but was less than perfect.
I fully plan on driving my new project Oval in a nice black or grey suede primer until I'm sure I'm done with it mechanically. This also gives me time to buy all the little bits and pieces I'm sure to need when it's re-assembled after paint.
Make no mistake, it'll be no slouch in primer as I assure you it'll have the proper attitude... and attitude is a large part of the Cal-Look scene anyway right?

~DR. 
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ian c
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« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2008, 16:39:19 pm »

i think we are now seeing a new part of the scene ....

i will call it RETRO CAL .

i had a big long post typed out about this , but my laptop crashed just as i was rounding off Sad

you dont know what you got til its gone .
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peach_
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« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2008, 05:12:55 am »


I think part of the problem is that a lot of people equate Cal-look with DKP/JG54/DKK/etc quality cars so they feel they have to put up big bucks to be included.

--louis

This comment totally sum's it up for me, Im 19 and work as a apprentice, I dnt get mega money and save as much as i can to make my 66 bug as cal-look as i can. Thats my aim anyway, the only thing that silghtly puts me off posting my pics of my car on here is probs slight embarressment of not be accepted, or told that "thats not cal-look" as so many have been told, but we all have to start somewhere as you guys all did back when you were my age, I guess that most of you guys have spent alot of time building up these cars, but im young and want what you've got now lol, its true, But all i think thats need is a little more acceptance of those not in the same position as some of the more fortunate ones out there, Trust me the group of people on this forum and your cars DKP/JG54/DKK/etc are a bit like hero syblems, something to aspire to for me
I jst think that the standard that you set are so high and fantastic that it scares some ppl my age group off, (Not me thou im here to stay  Grin) thats all.

Im not saying you are a forum thats full of snobby rich guys with to much money,far from it, im saying that its hard for a struggling youngster to compete and be accepted as proper cal-look with such a high standard being set.

Jst my thoughts as one of those 19 year olds trying to contiune Cal-look 

And yes it will suvive  Grin
 Wink

this was not ment to offend anyone and i hope it dosn't
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 05:14:27 am by peach_ » Logged

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Nafus
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« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2008, 05:27:18 am »

I have been a Cal-Look fan since 1984 when my Dad and I built my first Cal-Look.  My 58 Bug is Cal-Look 2275 Pro-Street tranny machine.  I am 39 Now driving my 1958 Cal-Look. 


I am still on the fence about the 56 Oval I just picked up.

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Bewitched666
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« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2008, 07:05:54 am »

Dokke you infested your son with your beetle mania? Grin

My daughter is in it too,we are building an engien as a father and daughter project Grin
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rick m
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« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2008, 16:57:41 pm »

The Cal Look will definitely survive! Heck, I know a percentage of us positing these comments are in our 50's.  The role of the older guys is to continue to create cars that represent the old look and how clean, simple and functional the cars are.  I take my chop top to cruise nights just so younger VW fans can see a driveable dual carb motor and nice car (not perfect car) that gives them ideas on what they can do.

I got into the scene in late 69 and have loved it for almost 40 years. I still get a rush when I see a well done Cal Looker (even if it is brand new).  I also appreciate the drivers like the GREEN 67 that keeps getting posted, as I have owned several of these type drivers and they are just as fun as the full tilt Cal Lookers.

DKP III has done a great job of keeping the so cal tradition alive too! Nothing sounds as cool as a dual weber VW motor...in a lowered 67 with BRMs or Alloys on it (in any state of completion). 

Like Don Bulitta, I love to get in mine and drive it. The looks, conversations and friendships that start from people checking your car out are priceless. Some of my longest running friends I gained through my interactions discussing our cars. In 1996, at the KELLY PARK show, I met Art Thraen.  I was parking my teal green 67 in the show and Art pulled in and parked by me in his IDA topped 66 he had driven to California from Salt Lake City, Utah.  Another great VW friendship began from our association with our cars.

The Cal Look will always remain and forums like these should keep a broad perspective so they can attract a broder base of people.  When you start limiting things to single looks, you limit the growth and participation.  Heck, I started out with bugs that had flared fenders and a lot of fiberglass on them in 1970 but by 72 evolved to the CAL LOOK myself.  Here is a shot of me with my first chop top attempt. It was a 57 Oval.  Soon after I finished the chop, someone bought it and converted it into a drag bug.

Rick M
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 16:59:44 pm by rick m » Logged

Rick Mortensen
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« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2008, 19:09:47 pm »

Hey Rick, you've actually contributed to the GREEN 67.  A few years ago I got my 90.5 B Mahle's from you for the 2110 that's going together this winter.  Thanks!
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rick m
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« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2008, 20:33:23 pm »

Hey,

I like your 67.  In fact, if you ever sell it...call me.  Yeah... I wish I'd hung on to my 90.5s. Oh well, they are going to a good home.

Rick M
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Rick Mortensen
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« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2008, 03:25:30 am »

Thanks Rick.  I'm going to do my best to put them to good use!
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