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Author Topic: 2276-FK 45 which compression?-->European 98 octane  (Read 8065 times)
airstuff
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« on: October 27, 2008, 17:40:01 pm »

I am at the building stage of the shortblock with my 2276cc engine.I will be using the Engle FK45- camshaft.I finally got it al sorted out,minus head,which I will order as soon as I calculate my deck heights.

Which compression ration would I need for this particular cam??the motor will be running on European 98 or OMV 100 octane fuel which is available here on any gas station.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 17:41:47 pm by cal-look » Logged
Peter
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 18:37:48 pm »

my guess is about ten to one?
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airstuff
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 10:34:07 am »

so how much is needed?I would need someone who had experience with this cam,and who uses 98 octane to tell me
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BeetleBug
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Snabba grabben...


« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 11:33:46 am »

so how much is needed?I would need someone who had experience with this cam,and who uses 98 octane to tell me

JPM used the same cam in his little mouse engine described in this thread; http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,3257.30.html. He went for 12,0:1 compression.
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
Jesse/DVK
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'64 2176cc


WWW
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 12:20:54 pm »

Keep your deck height between 1 and 1.5mm so you still have squish effect.
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Der Vollgas Kreuzers
Bewitched666
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Bewitched


« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 13:11:48 pm »

What will you use the engine for cal-look?
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Fast vw beetle's rule
airstuff
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 14:03:32 pm »

I will drive it 3-4 times a week,including weekends.once or twice a year I will go to a VW meeting,and sometimes strip action.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 15:35:57 pm by cal-look » Logged
BeetleBug
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Snabba grabben...


« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 15:16:41 pm »

I will drive it 3-4 times a week,including weekends.once or twice a year I will go to a VW meeting,and have occasional strip action.So it will be a fully street car.

Then I would bump it to 14,0:1 and convert to E85.

Sorry... could not resist.
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
airstuff
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2008, 15:30:07 pm »

I will drive it 3-4 times a week,including weekends.once or twice a year I will go to a VW meeting,and have occasional strip action.So it will be a fully street car.

Then I would bump it to 14,0:1 and convert to E85.

Sorry... could not resist.

You could ;)But you didn't want to hahaha Smiley
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airstuff
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2008, 15:31:18 pm »

just need a serious answer,so I can order my heads
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Martin Greaves
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10.88@128.58


« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2008, 20:08:41 pm »

What heads you going for.
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Hahaha your killing me.........
airstuff
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2008, 20:16:47 pm »

Brothers VW Machine 043 casting 42x37.5 Mid D ports are my final choice
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airstuff
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2008, 20:25:55 pm »



Here are the specs so far:

Brothers VW AS41 crankcase,bronze sleeved lifter bores
82mm crankshaft(11/32 dowels) and 12.5 flywheel,all balanced including pressure plate
Scat 5.394 I-beam rods
Mahle pistons and cylinders,total seal second rings
Engle FK-45,CB 30mm light weight lifters
CB 1.4 forged rocker arms
Manton chromoly pushrods
Schadeck 26mm oil pump

Scat 2 quart deep sump
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 20:46:33 pm by cal-look » Logged
Torben Alstrup
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« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2008, 01:19:42 am »

For max power, go 10 to 10,5 - 1
T
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airstuff
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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2008, 12:35:09 pm »

thanks Torben
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SOB/RFH
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Have fun!!


« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2008, 19:22:20 pm »

With a cam similar to FK-45 I am running 11,15:1 on eurpean gasoline (98 octane) and I have a deck hight of 1 mm, no sharp edges, fresh gasoline from a pump station with lot's of customers so the gas has a short storage time.....My shift rpm is 6600 and I need to downshift in the steepest places but other than that, lot's of fun!!
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airstuff
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« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2008, 15:44:43 pm »

How do dial in fk45 correctly,can someone help me or gide me through this process?

Thanks
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airstuff
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 19:22:07 pm »

Is it wright to do it this way: Huh

Install the lifters in their bores and put the camshaft in one half of the case. Look that the clearence is at least 1mm. Carry out a dummy assembly of the bottom end of the engine. taking in care to ensure that the 0 on the cam gear lines up with the crankshaft timing gear dot. It should turn over without feeling tight.

Do degree the cam make a dummy lifter which you weld a bolt in so that when it's in the case the bolt comes out of the case. Fit this dummy lifter into cilinder 1 inlet. and reasamble the case. With a degreed pulley turn the case over till you find TDC. Now mount a dialgauge so it's possible to take a reading of the bolt of the lifter. Zero the dial gauge. Rotate the engine clockwise and keep turning until the dial gauge starts to measure some lift. Continue until the reading is 0.050inch (1.25mm) and stop at that point. Take a look at the crank pulley and take a reading from this called A. Now rotate the engine further the dial gauge will continue to rise keep it going untill the reading starts do drop down to 0.050 (1.25mm) and stop. This is reading B on the pulley. 

Reading A + 180degrees + reading B = degrees of timing. If this is correct as stated in the manual of your cam than it's allright. If it's a little bit off you need to adjust the timing gear.

Example FK-89. Reading A 36degrees + 180 + B 66degrees = 282 degrees which is correct. If reading a is 38 degrees and B is 64 degrees the duration is correct but it's off 2 degrees you can adjust this with your timing gear. If reading A is 36 degrees and B is 67 degrees you should split the difference so that A is 37 degrees and B is 67 degrees.
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2008, 19:33:22 pm »

Hi Z...
I'm going to make a post on this hopefully later today.   Smiley
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airstuff
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2008, 19:35:38 pm »

Thanks Mr. Jim  Smiley
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2008, 20:30:50 pm »

here's a list of tools and parts needed and some of the steps. I will finish this up later, Zvon
 Smiley

Degreeing a cam

Tools needed:
Metric sockets 3/8” drive   
3/8” socket extension
3/8” drive ratchet
Lifter clips
Dial indicator with 1” travel and .001” graduations
Base for dial indicator with adjustable arms
Cut-in-half VW stock pushrod with ¼-20 bolt threaded into cut end
Accurate degree wheel or degree pulley for crank
30mm wrench or socket for crank pulley bolt
Deck plate that can be bolted across cylidner
Calculator

Parts needed:
Case halves (both)
12mm case nuts and washers
Camshaft
2 Lifters
1 connecting rod
Crankshaft
Main bearings
Rod bearings
Cam bearings
1 cylinder
1 piston (w/o rings)
Crank timing gear
Keyways for gears and pulley
Cam timing gear and 2 bolts
2 long lower head studs
2 med upper studs
4 head nuts
Some type of thick washer, like 8mm head washer
Oil pump is helpful at this step as you can check clearance for cam bolts


1.   Assemble 1 rod onto # 1 rod journal with bearings and lightly oil no need to torque
2.   heat crank gear to install. Before sliding gear on, install # 3 full circle main bearing onto crank, lightly oil, then slide hot gear over keyway/crank. Insert keyway for pulley.
3.   slide # 1 main bearing over # 1 journal, lightly oil
4.   Insert cam bearings into case (I highly suggest you check cam thrust play prior to checking cam timing, so you may need to polish thrust surfaces of cam bearings) and lightly oil. Install center main bearing halves to case webs and lightly oil. Install 1 intake and 1 exh lifter at #1 cylinder. Retain with clips.
5.   Loosely bolt cam gear to cam with one or two bolts. No need to tighten yet
6.   drop crank assembly into ¾ half of case with # 1 in TDC position, make sure bearings are oiled
7.   install cam so gear points align (cam vs crank)
8.   bolt case halves together lightly with 12mm nuts and washers (6 each). Make sure crank turns freely.
9.   install pulley onto crank. Install bolt
10.   install two lower long head studs at # 1 cylinder hole at lower threads, then two medium in upper threads
11.   install piston onto # 1 rod (no need for rings or wrist pin clips), then slide cylinder over and seat home against case.
12.   make sure crank still turns freely. Rotate crank clockwise until piston is near TDC
13.   set 8mm thick washer on top of piston. Bolt up deck plate to top of cylinder, use spacers if necessary and use care not to break fins.
14.   rotate crank clockwise until piston and washer stops against deck plate. Mark pulley (vs split line in case) at this point.
15.   rotate crank counterclockwise until again piston and washer stop against deck plate and mark pulley at this point
16.   if pulley is 100% accurate, then degrees on either side of “TDC” should be equal. If not, remark TDC on your pulley with a marker
17.   assemble dial indicator and base so it is secure. I bolt a Melling 8mm oil pump cover to 8mm thermostat-stud on side of sump-area of case for a base for magnetic-base. Insert cut-in-half pushrod into intake lifter, with bolt end facing outwards (towards where cylinder head would be). Align dial indicator so tip rest squarely on bolt and pushrod is traveling vertically and in line with dial indicator tip.
18.   Rotate crank until dial indicator shows cam is on heel or lowest lift point. Rotate completely again and watch for lift, then back to heel. Once you are sure cam is at zero lift position, readjust indicator so you have about .300” preload against pushrod with bolt, and then “zero” the gauge.


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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2008, 00:19:37 am »

19. rotate crank clockwise until dial indicator shows full lift. For an example, let’s say full lift shows .410” on gauge, so record that  measurement.
20. rotate crank back to “zero lift” and gauge shows it is back to “zero”
21. now rotate crank clockwise again, until you come within .005” lift figure you recorded in step # 19 (we are using .410, so figure .405”). Check where degree pulley is reading vs. split in case. Determine the degrees as “after top dead center”, so count to the left of TDC mark. If you go past the 90 degree mark, keep counting degrees as higher than 90, don’t start over @ 1 (so if you find pulley is past 90 now, and stopped at 5, then add 5 to 90 and that = 95). Write down the degrees.
22. Now rotate crankshaft clockwise again from the last step, but only to full lift, and then back to .005” under full lift (you will see gauge rise to full lift [we said .410”] and then back to .005” under that [in our example that would be .405” again]). Check pulley degrees now. Again, you will be past the 90 degree mark, but consider the degrees keep going higher past 90, so if you land on 30, then add 30 to 90 = 120. Write whatever figure you come up with down.
23. Now calculate the spread between to degrees recorded in step 21 and 22. Here is an example
   Step 22 you found degree wheel @ 122 degrees after TDC and in step 21 you found pulley showed 88 degrees after TDC.
   The calculation is 122 minus 88 = 34. Divide 34 by 2, which = 17. Add 17 to 88 and you find intake lift center is exactly at 105-   
   degrees after TDC. If the cam is ground on 108 lobe angle then this setting is 3 degrees advanced.
   
   A= degree figure found at second lift check (step 22)
   B= degree figure found at first lift check (step 21)
   C= Difference of A minus B
   D= C/2
   
   So, intake lift center =   a-b=c, then c/2, then D + B

So if you wanted cam “straight up” then you need the calculation to equal 108 if the cam is ground as a 108 lobe angle cam.
Hope this helps! This is how I have been doing it for 13 years now. Even if you do not have cam card if you do both intake and exhaust, you can figure out where cam was ground (lobe angle) and "make your own cam card"
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 00:24:02 am by Jim Ratto » Logged
Bewitched666
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Bewitched


« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2008, 08:06:28 am »

Noted all that Jim,thnx Cool

Greets Stanford
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Fast vw beetle's rule
airstuff
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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2008, 14:47:57 pm »

thanks for the great information provided Smiley
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2008, 17:26:21 pm »

Welcome guys, sorry to take the thread in a new direction.
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