Engines with Magnetos

[Jim Ratto]

Oh man what a story! love it jim! 

Why didn't you save up for a magneto if it was THAT good?

Thanks. Shortly after this, I raced the car @ Sears Pt Raceway, in fall of 1992, and had no idea how to pre load the trans, etc. Actually that entire trip to the drags is a story in itself, as car was originally going to get trailered, but ended up getting driven. Anyway, I went pretty far in ET2 elim's running a 13.76 on 13.75 dial in, on 195/60 radials, but split trans case completely in half at drain plug. Got home and found a huge puddle of gear oil. After that I shelved the car for a good 6 months, and after that moved away to live with some girl and go to college and ran out of money really fast.

[louisb]

Oh man what a story! love it jim! 

Why didn't you save up for a magneto if it was THAT good?

away to live with some girl and go to college and ran out of money really fast.

Women seem to have a way of doing that to a guy. 

--louis

[Jim Ratto]

Oh man what a story! love it jim! 

Why didn't you save up for a magneto if it was THAT good?

away to live with some girl and go to college and ran out of money really fast.

Women seem to have a way of doing that to a guy. 

--louis

Some do, but not all...   

Thinking about why later I never saved up for a Vertex, I ended up with the MSD stuff I have now, for a song. The box I bought for next to nothing from my old friend Mike Collins, had it tested at MSD for nothing, and got the distributor for $80 from another friend in 1995.
BUT
if I had my choice?

I'd go back to a locked mag.

To me the fewer things hung between the motor and the car the better. That's "cal look" to me.

[Hotrodvw]

[Zach Gomulka]

Broughton's oval.... drool...

[Hotrodvw]

Uh huh.......


You know it's for sale again, right??

[Zach Gomulka]

Indeed I do. I'm in love with that car!

http://www.oldbug.com/ab57.htm

[Cheesepanzer]

Jim wrote:
BUT if I had my choice?

I'd go back to a locked mag.

Why a locked-out mag? 

Years ago I understood a locked-out set up was preferred for turbo applications.  They tended to be very difficult to start.

Why not have an advance modeled after an 009 or something?

[wolfswest]

I don't have a clue what a magneto costs these days?     How much do you need to spend for a nice magneto prepped and ready for your big T1 engine?

[JS]

Oh, say about $1000 for a new Joe Hunt or $3-500 for a used one. Then about $50 if you want a converter to use a normal tach and another $150 if you want a pro-control box to use as a rev limiter.
Alternatively you could pick up a used industrial engine mag, lock it out with a welder and just go... Say about $50 if you´re lucky. But I can imagine it will be somewhat hard to start!

[Lee.C]

I'm gonnna sound REALLY STUPID here but why is it harder to start a "locked out" magneto 

[louisb]

I don't have a clue what a magneto costs these days?     How much do you need to spend for a nice magneto prepped and ready for your big T1 engine?

You can get them from $350 - $500 if you keep an eye on the samba. This is the guy I bought mine from:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=705610

Here is another one I looked at:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=649396

But then you do need to add a rev limiter and a tach converter. Plus any service it might need. Joe Hunt quoted me $250 to check mine out, lock out the timing and polish the housing. I need to get a side exit cap as well since mine has the plug wires attached at the top.

--louis

[JS]

Lee, wouldn´t you agree it´s basically harder to start an engine the more static ignition it has, mag ignition or not?

Louis, why do you need the side exit cap other than for looks?

[Lee.C]

Lee, wouldn´t you agree it´s basically harder to start an engine the more static ignition it has, mag ignition or not?

Hmm never really thought about that but yes of course it does  told you I was gonna sound silly 

[JS]

Well, I think it will be harder to start at least compared to if it has a good advance curve. Maybe Jim can comment on that? JHU has a locked mag that he got checked at Don Zig´s. He didn´t seem to think it was that much of a problem.
Of course it also depends if you run 6 or 12V on the car, compression ratio, 10 year old worn out battery or a new gel cell, new super-hi-po-5hp starter or the old one that came with the car etc etc. 
I thought my car was a bit hard to start with the industrial engine mag. But the advance was only 12 degrees and my battery was really old. Now I´m sending the mag to Joe Hunt for reconditioning and a 009 advance curve. Also got a new Optima 6V battery yesterday. 

[louisb]

Louis, why do you need the side exit cap other than for looks?

To make sure it clears my CB Linkage. And well, it just looks cleaner. 

--louis

[Lee.C]

Well, I think it will be harder to start at least compared to if it has a good advance curve. Maybe Jim can comment on that? JHU has a locked mag that he got checked at Don Zig´s. He didn´t seem to think it was that much of a problem.
Of course it also depends if you run 6 or 12V on the car, compression ratio, 10 year old worn out battery or a new gel cell, new super-hi-po-5hp starter or the old one that came with the car etc etc. 
I thought my car was a bit hard to start with the industrial engine mag. But the advance was only 12 degrees and my battery was really old. Now I´m sending the mag to Joe Hunt for reconditioning and a 009 advance curve. Also got a new Optima 6V battery yesterday. 

Hmmm you've given me ALOT to think about for PROJECT 66, its VERY interesting that you can convert it to use a "normal" tach 

[Jim Ratto]

if you try to start the motor with locked advance, with either mag or MSD, with system "on" you probably will not get anywhere. I wired my CD box seperate from starter-key. The MSD is turned on after motor cranks, then a blip of throttle and it's go time. You can do the same with a mag. You can do the same with a blue coil and a simple Bosch relay too if you're running an 009 or 010 or whatever.

[Sarge]

Lot's of good info here.....

http://www.donzig.com/techmenu.html

[JS]

Hey Jim, what´s the theory behind "priming" the system like that? Did you use a separate switch that you flip while running the starter?

[wolfswest]

I still don't understand why you have to lock the advance, if I understand correctly not everybody does it.

The story of Jim is nice but can someone else also tell their story?  Is every engine a real mean firespitting mofo after installing this beauty? 
I'm running a 009 basic setup now but I want something else...  I was thinking about a msd setup but the magneto sounds tempting... 

[streetvw]

now this is just plain showing off 

[Martin]

[Martin Greaves]

So how do you get that motor to float in thin air like that Martin.

[Lee.C]

Hey Jim, what´s the theory behind "priming" the system like that? Did you use a separate switch that you flip while running the starter?

Yeah I am still a little confused as to why you it won't want to start after it has been "switched on" 

is it just the shear amount of charge build up 

[axam48ida]

I have ran one for years with advance and locked. Hunt and Zig offer relays to tie in with your ignition switch or like I always done which is a theft prevention and allows one to crank the motor without starting the engine. If you have an electric fuel pump and it's wired to the switch you don't have to crank the motor and worrying about it starting the motor. you can mount a toggle switch under the dash. or use a early type wiper switch. push pull type of switch.  In doing so with a separate switch It allows you to crank the motor and purp the throttle then hit the switch to ignite the mag. When you have that locked mag or distributor which is at total advance it's difficult to start when cranking the motor at few hundred rpm's. so when you let it crank and get some rotation growing then hit the switch to ignite the mag they start easier.

Well, I think it will be harder to start at least compared to if it has a good advance curve. Maybe Jim can comment on that? JHU has a locked mag that he got checked at Don Zig´s. He didn´t seem to think it was that much of a problem.
Of course it also depends if you run 6 or 12V on the car, compression ratio, 10 year old worn out battery or a new gel cell, new super-hi-po-5hp starter or the old one that came with the car etc etc. 
I thought my car was a bit hard to start with the industrial engine mag. But the advance was only 12 degrees and my battery was really old. Now I´m sending the mag to Joe Hunt for reconditioning and a 009 advance curve. Also got a new Optima 6V battery yesterday. 

[Jon]

My engine has a mag on it, set at 32-33°. Its all "on" when I turn the ignition key... and it fires right up... even when hot!? And this is with a 12 volt starter, I have been given the tip to fit a 6 volt starter which I'm going to do to get the revs up during start up, to get that "sure fire" feeling.

With a nice and healthy long duration camshaft the static CR of 11.3 doesn't affect my engine much since the dynamic is way down.
This is just my thoughts on this, there might be another reason entirely as to why it works...

[Fastbrit]

now this is just plain showing off 

And don't forget, I also had a magneto on my Okrasa-engined Split-window! I wonder who else in the UK had three cars on the street at the same time with Magnetos?

Do you get the feeling I like them? If my 'new' car didn't already have an MSD and two-step etc, I'd run a mag in a heartbeat.

[wolfswest]

keith, did you also feel a major difference like Jim did?

[Sarge]

 If my 'new' car didn't already have an MSD and two-step etc, I'd run a mag in a heartbeat.

Maybe you should reconsider now that you've got all that book money burning a hole in your pocket.....