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Author Topic: Upgrading Fuel Line  (Read 42119 times)
reijo5
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« Reply #90 on: January 22, 2009, 20:54:29 pm »

Hi , what size and pitch is the fuel tank outlet thread? and did they change in size over the years ? mines a 54
thanks for any help.

jay

Jay, I believe it's 20mmx1.0, but don't quote me on that. 



cool thanks ,and thanks bruce .
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Hotrodvw
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« Reply #91 on: January 22, 2009, 21:06:00 pm »

Are you sure your new engine is going to require larger than the stock fuel pipe in the pan?

do you know the gph requirement of your engine? Needle valve size?

Don't go confusing people with common sense Jim.  Everyone knows that a stock 5mm fuel line (19mm^2) is not enough to feed a pair of 2mm needle valves (3.1mm^2).


Well, I'm not trying to piss the guy's fire out (or anybody else's), but I hate to see guys wringing their hands in angst over parts and work they may not HAVE to do. A situation that I've been in too many times, and I see that runs rampant in this hobby. Just because a stock part isn't "shiny" or made of billet unobtanium doesn't mean its not up to the task.
Again, I think a pretty healthy 2 liter street application can be fed adequately by the stock line IF a pusher pump is used. 150-160hp is probably where the line should be drawn. But again, remember, how the car is used matters probably MORE than cc.
My friend Kyle ran a 2016cc for over 150,000 real street miles (only removing motor for clutch) on the stock fuel pipe. While it was not a drag motor, it was what I would consider a practical, reliable daily driver (90.5x78, cam like Engle 120, 7.8:1, d-ported heads, 44IDF Webers). No way that engine would have gone over 150K had it been leaned out due to fuel delivery issues.
Look at other production cars with similar cc and intake arrangement... roughly 500cc per cyl, one throttle per cylinder... I don't think these cars are running a 1/2" fuel pipe to the fuel rail @ carbs.



Jim, I agree, and never took it in a wrong way from you.  I always do overkill.........dunno why.  I had the materials, and the know how......so I did it.   Cheesy
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #92 on: January 22, 2009, 21:16:33 pm »

Are you sure your new engine is going to require larger than the stock fuel pipe in the pan?

do you know the gph requirement of your engine? Needle valve size?

Don't go confusing people with common sense Jim.  Everyone knows that a stock 5mm fuel line (19mm^2) is not enough to feed a pair of 2mm needle valves (3.1mm^2).


Well, I'm not trying to piss the guy's fire out (or anybody else's), but I hate to see guys wringing their hands in angst over parts and work they may not HAVE to do. A situation that I've been in too many times, and I see that runs rampant in this hobby. Just because a stock part isn't "shiny" or made of billet unobtanium doesn't mean its not up to the task.
Again, I think a pretty healthy 2 liter street application can be fed adequately by the stock line IF a pusher pump is used. 150-160hp is probably where the line should be drawn. But again, remember, how the car is used matters probably MORE than cc.
My friend Kyle ran a 2016cc for over 150,000 real street miles (only removing motor for clutch) on the stock fuel pipe. While it was not a drag motor, it was what I would consider a practical, reliable daily driver (90.5x78, cam like Engle 120, 7.8:1, d-ported heads, 44IDF Webers). No way that engine would have gone over 150K had it been leaned out due to fuel delivery issues.
Look at other production cars with similar cc and intake arrangement... roughly 500cc per cyl, one throttle per cylinder... I don't think these cars are running a 1/2" fuel pipe to the fuel rail @ carbs.



Jim, I agree, and never took it in a wrong way from you.  I always do overkill.........dunno why.  I had the materials, and the know how......so I did it.   Cheesy

 Grin

I have an old friend that was the same way. He'd look in a catalog and scan for the "biggest" and always order whatever it was. I think he'd plumb a Holley Blue and -8 in to feed a 40HP.

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Hotrodvw
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« Reply #93 on: January 22, 2009, 21:19:59 pm »

And there's absolutley nothing wrong with that.   Cheesy
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« Reply #94 on: January 22, 2009, 21:32:11 pm »

Hi , what size and pitch is the fuel tank outlet thread? and did they change in size over the years ? mines a 54
thanks for any help.

jay

CB sell thes adapters for stock tank to -6 or -8

http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1709

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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #95 on: January 22, 2009, 21:37:04 pm »

And there's absolutley nothing wrong with that.   Cheesy

yeah, but....   he'd do that with everything... cams, cranks, carbs...etc. Sometimes that doesn't work.
And when others didn't follow suit (me) he'd get opinionated and butt hurt.
I'd always hear about how "that's not gonna work"

oh really?
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Hotrodvw
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« Reply #96 on: January 22, 2009, 21:39:48 pm »

HE HE......yeah, we VW'ers tend to get butt hurt easily. 
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« Reply #97 on: January 22, 2009, 23:32:12 pm »

Hi , what size and pitch is the fuel tank outlet thread? and did they change in size over the years ? mines a 54
thanks for any help.

jay

CB sell thes adapters for stock tank to -6 or -8

http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1709


Here is a nice Fitting for the stock VW Tank made by Marty Skaggs  comes in AN-6 or AN-8 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=711411
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« Reply #98 on: January 23, 2009, 02:05:41 am »

OMG...Dead Horse............
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Hotrodvw
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« Reply #99 on: February 03, 2009, 07:27:55 am »

OMG! OMG! OMG!   Roll Eyes

Sometimes......redundancy happens. 
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« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2010, 11:20:47 am »

does hard line isolate the smell of fuel or not?

i've got all rubber hoses with -6 AN/JIC parker fittings from the fuel tank to the engine bay and a hardline running through the tunnel but after a month of being on the road my car STINKS of fuel, it is unbearable!
this was one of the 2 reasons i couldn't attend DFL 402, it's a recipe for instant headache.

with the electronic fuel pump i now always run the engine until the mixture runs lean because of hitting the fuel pump switch, so there shouldn't be any fuel in the carbs. i've got an electronic fuel sender (are there caps available?) but the fuel comes from underneath the rear seat not the trunk...

i'm thinking of running 4 meters of S/S teflon line through the tunnel instead of the hardline, there's always the possibility that the hardline has cracked or was never in perfect condition...

does anyone have any experience with S/S teflon fuel hose? i'm assuming i need the trick blue/red anodised fittings instead of parker fittings? though i have no idea how to assemble these...

please let me know, i'd like to be back on the road... Wink
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Diederick
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BeetleBug
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« Reply #101 on: June 09, 2010, 11:39:41 am »

Very interesting! I would say that a rubber hose should NOT smell anything unless you got a leak. I struggled with the same thing last season and ended up replacing my steel braided (and expensive) fuel hose and took it for granted that I must have punctured it.


does hard line isolate the smell of fuel or not?

i've got all rubber hoses with -6 AN/JIC parker fittings from the fuel tank to the engine bay and a hardline running through the tunnel but after a month of being on the road my car STINKS of fuel, it is unbearable!
this was one of the 2 reasons i couldn't attend DFL 402, it's a recipe for instant headache.

with the electronic fuel pump i now always run the engine until the mixture runs lean because of hitting the fuel pump switch, so there shouldn't be any fuel in the carbs. i've got an electronic fuel sender (are there caps available?) but the fuel comes from underneath the rear seat not the trunk...

i'm thinking of running 4 meters of S/S teflon line through the tunnel instead of the hardline, there's always the possibility that the hardline has cracked or was never in perfect condition...

does anyone have any experience with S/S teflon fuel hose? i'm assuming i need the trick blue/red anodised fittings instead of parker fittings? though i have no idea how to assemble these...

please let me know, i'd like to be back on the road... Wink
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« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2010, 13:44:53 pm »

that's what i'm thinking with the hard line. perhaps it cracked when i shoved it into the tunnel?
only thing i can think of...

any experience with Torque UK by the way?
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Diederick
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Hotrodvw
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« Reply #103 on: June 15, 2010, 21:51:57 pm »

Diederick.......
   If you'll read up the page some more, I am a fan of the SS/Teflon hose.  It DOES NOT use the aluminum AN fittings though.  You'll need to use the proper fittings for the hose, and where ever you purchase it, they should have the fittings as well.  As always, you'll need to secure it properly to avoid chafing.  Eric
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« Reply #104 on: June 16, 2010, 11:52:18 am »

the website mentions special -6 teflon fittings:


you mean secure a grommet or so in the left fork where the hoses exits?

i'm hoping this will solve my problems. i checked an there's quite a fuel fume coming out of the tunnel where i opened the inspection plate...
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Diederick
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« Reply #105 on: June 17, 2010, 12:01:46 pm »

when i installed my aluminum fuel pipe i didn't manage to use the original location into the tunnel (under the fuel tank) because of the angle.
but i figure i could do so when installing the s/s hose. although it might not be easy. does anyone have some advice?

IMO, starting at the rear it'll be very hard to run the hose through the original front hole in the tunnel.
starting at the front it will be difficult having it exit in the left fork through the hole...

just wondering, any advice?
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Diederick
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« Reply #106 on: June 17, 2010, 22:20:29 pm »

sjees, still busy with that f*king  fuel line? get it done  Grin f*king drive  Shocked Wink
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bugkeeper
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« Reply #107 on: June 18, 2010, 10:07:17 am »






I installed a 3/8" Aluminium hard-line with AN8 Fittings. I use AN8 (-8) braided fuel line to connect the tank to the filter to the Holley red pump and then from the hard line to the carburetor.
To prevent fatigue breaking I installed several clamps along the line. Not visible on the pictures I installed a protective cover in the front portion of the line to protect it from flying rocks etc. I did not try to install the line inside the tunnel. I want to be able to see leaks and to have easy access to threaded couplings. Car manufacturers run their fuel lines also outside the chassis underneath the car.

I wouldn't bother installing a larger Fuel line if the engine has less than 160 HP. I would keep it simple and install a very quiet rotary Pierburg or Carter (CB Performance) Pump. They flow far enough fuel. Pressure is not the concern unless you are running EFI. It is just volume that matters.

In my case, my engine is a 1915cc with a T3 Turbo and a Holley. It is pushing around 210 HP depending on boost pressure. On boost it requires a lot of fuel to keep the A/F ratio in a rich and cool range. Fuel starvation would generate a piston melt down… The original fuel line is used as a boost sensing line to my boost controller and gauge.

Running a hose on the full length of the car other than a Teflon lined hose is not recommended. Too much drag in a hose. Same applies for front oil coolers. Keep the hose amount small and use hard lines where possible.

My 2 cents

Cheers
Dom
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« Reply #108 on: June 18, 2010, 16:32:17 pm »

sjees, still busy with that f*king  fuel line? get it done  Grin f*king drive  Shocked Wink

thanks for the great advice
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Diederick
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Hotrodvw
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« Reply #109 on: June 19, 2010, 05:05:07 am »

when i installed my aluminum fuel pipe i didn't manage to use the original location into the tunnel (under the fuel tank) because of the angle.
but i figure i could do so when installing the s/s hose. although it might not be easy. does anyone have some advice?

IMO, starting at the rear it'll be very hard to run the hose through the original front hole in the tunnel.
starting at the front it will be difficult having it exit in the left fork through the hole...

just wondering, any advice?

Use a fish tape, like that which is used in commercial electric wiring, or a stiff wire.  Feed it thru to the exit you're using, tape the hose to it, and pull it back thru.  That fitting looks like similar to what I use, but I cannot say for sure w/o having it in my hand.  Here's mine:

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Erlend / bug66
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« Reply #110 on: March 15, 2015, 22:35:01 pm »

Hi , what size and pitch is the fuel tank outlet thread? and did they change in size over the years ? mines a 54
thanks for any help.

jay

CB sell thes adapters for stock tank to -6 or -8

http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1709



6years later quote  Grin

Who runs a AN8 fitting on a stock tank? I've tried, but no way to fit a 90degree fitting between fitting and  the  framehead. Need to space the tank up, but not that keen to do that. Bought a 90degree angle fitting (no bend) but that was also no bueno.

An8 both ways by the way, and an6 from regulator to the carbs.
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Hotrodvw
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« Reply #111 on: March 15, 2015, 22:40:16 pm »

Empty your tank.  Tap the outlet of the stock bung on the tank for 1/4"npt.  Install a -8AN x 1/4" Male npt 90 deg. adapter and be done.  Much shorter than what you were thinking....and it will clear. 
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« Reply #112 on: March 15, 2015, 22:43:22 pm »

Empty your tank.  Tap the outlet of the stock bung on the tank for 1/4"npt.  Install a -8AN x 1/4" Male npt 90 deg. adapter and be done.  Much shorter than what you were thinking....and it will clear. 

Good advice!

Will try that  Smiley
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richie
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« Reply #113 on: March 16, 2015, 19:40:33 pm »

6years later quote  Grin

Who runs a AN8 fitting on a stock tank?


Yes, and a -10 and even -12, just welded a -8 onto tank where stock outlet is, with a -8 90 it is tight but never had to prop the tank up at all

cheers Richie
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« Reply #114 on: March 16, 2015, 20:28:51 pm »

6years later quote  Grin

Who runs a AN8 fitting on a stock tank?


Yes, and a -10 and even -12, just welded a -8 onto tank where stock outlet is, with a -8 90 it is tight but never had to prop the tank up at all

cheers Richie

This is a aluminium fitting on the stock "neck", so it quite deep.

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richie
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« Reply #115 on: March 16, 2015, 20:45:56 pm »

The ones I have used like that are made with an angle built in so the fitting clears
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« Reply #116 on: March 16, 2015, 21:09:52 pm »

The ones I have used like that are made with an angle built in so the fitting clears

Have you got a link?

Not that keen on welding a 48 year old tank  Shocked

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richie
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« Reply #117 on: March 16, 2015, 22:17:17 pm »

http://www.anprofittings.com/

5 rows down on right, VW tank fittings Smiley
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« Reply #118 on: March 16, 2015, 22:25:34 pm »

That'll probably work! Straight fitting from CB does not  Angry
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leec
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« Reply #119 on: March 16, 2015, 23:01:42 pm »

That'll probably work! Straight fitting from CB does not  Angry

What doesn't work about the CB fitting?
Lee
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