NEW Steering wheel from Flat 4

[BigALboski]

I was just browsing the flat 4 website and notice a picture of a possible "new" steering wheel. The home page shows a picture of a wooden coach wheel with all the trimmings..... nice. 

[BigALboski]

Anyone have any info on this?

[speedwell]

THE NEW FLAT4 STEERING WHEEL  IS A COPY OF THE SPEEDWELL /EMPI GRAND PRIX STEERING WHEEL  and they just put the same logo as the gt copy

[speedwell]

here's the steering wheel

[BigALboski]

Both of those wheels would be bad a$$!!

[Rennsurfer]

I was tipped off on this awhile back. I'm stoked that they're bringing that wheel back. It was always a favorite of mine.



But I ended up getting something that won't get reproduced. Thank God for Volkswagen dealer only option steering wheels.

(coughFormulaVeecough)

Back on topic; those new F.F. Speedwell (see pic in my post) wheels look GREAT.

[ALboski-62]

1.Coach style
2. Speedwell style
Who is selling those FF steering wheels now?

[Pekka]

No repops for me, there are still enough originals to go around (have 2 speedwells in my garage). And the coach wheel, well, who cares...

[vwxtc4free]

I am waiting for a 14" gtv or a universal wheel from flat4.

[BigALboski]

NEWS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
FF just received shipment and these should be available in 2 months!!

[beetletom]

shame
everyone will be running speedwell's now!!! 

[Cornpanzer]

shame
everyone will be running speedwell's now!!! 

Exactly!   

[BigALboski]

Just like the empi gtv wheel  .

This is my favorite steering wheel, but the original seems a bit delicate...too flimsy. + old vs new??? take the new, but to each his/her own.

[beetletom]

yeah, my wheel is a bit delicate!
i didn't use to care about stuff getting repro'd, but till you own the real thing, you realise how odd it is!
but flat 4 stuff is pretty cool, for people who couldnt own it first time around...

exmple...seeing a set of gasburners on a car was something very special, now they are everywhere, especially on bays! 

but repro'ing smaller parts would be cool, that usually gets lost or broken, like speedwell steering wheel housings, and vdm horn rings???

[Donny B.]

I'm an old guy (65 next month) and if there is one thing I learned it's to be less concerned about what others decide or do and be more concerned about what I decide and do.  I have repro BRMs.  I always wanted the real thing and figured out that I would be lucky to get Repros.  It gives me the look I like and that is all that matters to me.  I have a Repro Empi steering wheel and I am fine with that I don't care that many others have them or that it is not original.  I like the way it looks!  Personally I prefer the look of the repro to the original.  That is my opinion.  I do realize that this is perhaps heresy on this site, but that is OK with me.  I made my choices for me not for everyone else.  I am sure that the new wheel have many takers.  That makes Flat-4 just that much more profitable.  Be happy that someone out there is making quality parts for our VWs.  Many businesses have suffered and gone out of business.  Now if I just had more money to spend on my car I would be a lot happier.  I will now get down off my soap box.

[empicolector]

the new flat4 steering wheel is nice for me

[Cornpanzer]

I'm an old guy (65 next month) and if there is one thing I learned it's to be less concerned about what others decide or do and be more concerned about what I decide and do.  I have repro BRMs.  I always wanted the real thing and figured out that I would be lucky to get Repros.  It gives me the look I like and that is all that matters to me.  I have a Repro Empi steering wheel and I am fine with that I don't care that many others have them or that it is not original.  I like the way it looks!  Personally I prefer the look of the repro to the original.  That is my opinion.  I do realize that this is perhaps heresy on this site, but that is OK with me.  I made my choices for me not for everyone else.  I am sure that the new wheel have many takers.  That makes Flat-4 just that much more profitable.  Be happy that someone out there is making quality parts for our VWs.  Many businesses have suffered and gone out of business.  Now if I just had more money to spend on my car I would be a lot happier.  I will now get down off my soap box.

Hi Don 

Just to offer another perspective.  I, like you, dont like to follow the crowd.  I tend to do what I like with my car.  One of the reasons that I love Cal-Look VW's is that they are different than most hot-rods.  If I wanted to do what everyone else does, I would build a Camaro or Nova.  Within the VW hobby, I also like being a bit different too.  This is why I put Americans on my car over ten years ago instead of BRM's.  Now this may not be important to you, but the quest for rare parts has always been a major componant of why I enjoy this hobby.

To offer some history,  I used to have a normal Empi steering wheel on my car, but the replicas came out and soon everyone had them.  So, I searched out a Speedwell wheel and spent a good chunk of money on it...just to be a bit different.  Now, there is a repro and once again everyone will have them.

I search long and hard for a 67 vert decklid back in the mid 90's and now people are fabricating them.  I spent another large chunk of money to buy an original Scheel seat racing seat used on the 911 ST's back in 1971 and installed it in my 911.  Six months later, someone started reproducing them.  I spent $800 for a pair of Cibie hood lights for my 911 and before I could get them installed, reproductions came out.  I never have bothered to install them since everybody seems to have them now.  Uber rare hockey puck horn button for my 911.....12 months after finding one reproductions are released.  Now everyone has one. 

There is nothing that can be done about it...the demand is being filled by enterprising companies.  But acknowledging this doesnt mean that I dont have a right to be frustrated every time some cool part I searched for months or years to find is reproduced in mass quantities.  This doesnt mean that cars with reproduction parts are any less valid that one who has all original bits.  But, you cannot ignore that rarity is a major componant of desirability.  Would we lust after a Ferrari GTO if they had been made in the same quantities as Chevy Chevette's?  Or, if a company came out with a perfect Ferrari replica, accurate in every way, and offered them at a cost and quantity where the average car guy could afford them...do you think the originals would retain thier cache'?

Again, nothing more than my perspective.  Best, DC

[Nico86]

I'm an old guy (65 next month) and if there is one thing I learned it's to be less concerned about what others decide or do and be more concerned about what I decide and do.  I have repro BRMs.  I always wanted the real thing and figured out that I would be lucky to get Repros.  It gives me the look I like and that is all that matters to me.  I have a Repro Empi steering wheel and I am fine with that I don't care that many others have them or that it is not original.  I like the way it looks!  Personally I prefer the look of the repro to the original.  That is my opinion.  I do realize that this is perhaps heresy on this site, but that is OK with me.  I made my choices for me not for everyone else.  I am sure that the new wheel have many takers.  That makes Flat-4 just that much more profitable.  Be happy that someone out there is making quality parts for our VWs.  Many businesses have suffered and gone out of business.  Now if I just had more money to spend on my car I would be a lot happier.  I will now get down off my soap box.

Hi Don 

Just to offer another perspective.  I, like you, dont like to follow the crowd.  I tend to do what I like with my car.  One of the reasons that I love Cal-Look VW's is that they are different than most hot-rods.  If I wanted to do what everyone else does, I would build a Camaro or Nova.  Within the VW hobby, I also like being a bit different too.  This is why I put Americans on my car over ten years ago instead of BRM's.  Now this may not be important to you, but the quest for rare parts has always been a major componant of why I enjoy this hobby.

To offer some history,  I used to have a normal Empi steering wheel on my car, but the replicas came out and soon everyone had them.  So, I searched out a Speedwell wheel and spent a good chunk of money on it...just to be a bit different.  Now, there is a repro and once again everyone will have them.

I search long and hard for a 67 vert decklid back in the mid 90's and now people are fabricating them.  I spent another large chunk of money to buy an original Scheel seat racing seat used on the 911 ST's back in 1971 and installed it in my 911.  Six months later, someone started reproducing them.  I spent $800 for a pair of Cibie hood lights for my 911 and before I could get them installed, reproductions came out.  I never have bothered to install them since everybody seems to have them now.  Uber rare hockey puck horn button for my 911.....12 months after finding one reproductions are released.  Now everyone has one. 

There is nothing that can be done about it...the demand is being filled by enterprising companies.  But acknowledging this doesnt mean that I dont have a right to be frustrated every time some cool part I searched for months or years to find is reproduced in mass quantities.  This doesnt mean that cars with reproduction parts are any less valid that one who has all original bits.  But, you cannot ignore that rarity is a major componant of desirability.  Would we lust after a Ferrari GTO if they had been made in the same quantities as Chevy Chevette's?  Or, if a company came out with a perfect Ferrari replica, accurate in every way, and offered them at a cost and quantity where the average car guy could afford them...do you think the originals would retain thier cache'?

Again, nothing more than my perspective.  Best, DC

Yes but you have the real stuff, that makes your car rare. Take Flat 4 for example, their GTV steering wheel is a very good quality product, except for the horn button that looks cheap to me. It's he same for their Enkei wheels, they make it very well but the center cap is a cheap plastic "fake chrome" made in Taiwan.
Except some little details, Flat4 make great repros, but sometimes repros are crap. I remember when I was restoring my beetle buying some new turn signals on a catalog, the description says nothing more than "turn signal for beetle, 65 and up". When I receive it, it was some sh*t made in taiwan, I oppened the box and the chrome was already rusted and the orange lenses looked bad. I sent it back, and found some Hella stuff in Germany. It was the same when I bought some US rear lights lenses, it was a WCM product but did'nt fit correctly on the fender mounting, it broke because of vibrations after a few weeks, now I have old Hella euro-lenses and it's ok.

[Donny B.]

Hi Dave,

As someone who is actually provided parts for you car (you remember) I appreciate your perspective.  I agree with you about just about everything.  My problem is when we make too much out of original stuff like $14,000 for original BRMs.  Fine someone got some NOS BRMs. That is great if that is what they wanted.  I always like BRMS and wanted a set.  I actually went to one of the Phoneix shows with the intention of only buying a set.  I actually had the money necessary in my pocket, but Bill Schwimmer beat me to them.  I was talking with Gary Berg when Bill showed up with them.  I was blown away.  That was then.  I have long since gotten over that.  Actually it is a kinda cool story.  Now I have a set of 5 Flat-4 BRMs and I wouldn't trade them for a real set.  I have seen how crude the originals are.  Like a friend in Nebraska said "they are junk".  By today's standard they are not good enough to drive on.  Now I know that there are a bunch of folks out there that will disagree and that is OK.  We know each other and understand that it is important to do what is important for yourself.  I think a lot of people miss that.  I am not going along with the crowd. I am doing just what I like just like just you have always done.  I don't care if there are repops out there as long as they are good quality.  Use them or don't, but at least the latest of repops from Flat-4 are a lot better than those I saw back in the 80's.  Does anyone remember the plastic Rossi headlights for the early cars.  Things are getting better and we should rejoice in that.  I will never get into the Porsche stuff as I am retired and living on a fixed income (at least I have one small though it is).  Dave it is good that you posted on this.  Keep on keeping on...

[Lids]

i run with a nardi steering wheel, it cost as much as an EMPI GT, but it won't be reproduced.

[Wünderwolff]

i run with a nardi steering wheel, it cost as much as an EMPI GT, but it won't be reproduced.

That's true  but only because it is still produced brand new.

I agree with Don that part of the pleasure of owning a special accessory is the hunt, hunt as in let's take it to the woods and shoot a rabbit.  But what if the hunt turns into a faked Safari where you have to pay and pay and pay just to be able to buy that White Elephants head on a plaque that someone else shot. 16000 dollars just for wheels (old wheels) is just not what this hobby should be about. The ones willing to pay that, good for you, but shouldn't you be looking for real classic racecars  like Jags and Astons 

So, go with the repro, makes it more accesible for the average Joe. By the way money doesn't build cars, inspiration does.

[BigALboski]

I agree with Don that part of the pleasure of owning a special accessory is the hunt, hunt as in let's take it to the woods and shoot a rabbit.  But what if the hunt turns into a faked Safari where you have to pay and pay and pay just to be able to buy that White Elephants head on a plaque that someone else shot. 16000 dollars just for wheels (old wheels) is just not what this hobby should be about. The ones willing to pay that, good for you, but shouldn't you be looking for real classic racecars  like Jags and Astons 

So, go with the repro, makes it more accesible for the average Joe. By the way money doesn't build cars, inspiration does.

Agree

[Rennsurfer]

I'm an old guy (65 next month) and if there is one thing I learned it's to be less concerned about what others decide or do and be more concerned about what I decide and do.  I have repro BRMs.  I always wanted the real thing and figured out that I would be lucky to get Repros.  It gives me the look I like and that is all that matters to me.  I have a Repro Empi steering wheel and I am fine with that I don't care that many others have them or that it is not original.  I like the way it looks!  Personally I prefer the look of the repro to the original.  That is my opinion.  I do realize that this is perhaps heresy on this site, but that is OK with me.  I made my choices for me not for everyone else.  I am sure that the new wheel have many takers.  That makes Flat-4 just that much more profitable.  Be happy that someone out there is making quality parts for our VWs.  Many businesses have suffered and gone out of business.  Now if I just had more money to spend on my car I would be a lot happier.  I will now get down off my soap box.

Personally, I don't care for the reproduction steering wheels. I had a mint condition EMPI GTV wheel on my first Cal Looker and sold it to Rich Kimball for $200 back in 1985 because I got burnt out on the EMPI stuff on my car. I sold the (5) EMPI five spokes for $800 during the same period. Ended up putting a three spoke Porsche 911 steering wheel on and a set of N.O.S. 356 B wheels on the car. I got tired of my car having the same parts as everyone else's.

Fast forward to now. Like you, Donny, I've always wanted a set of BRM wheels. Since I've already owned just about every other wheel I desired, BRMs (or a set of 911 Fuchs) were the only ones I was interested in. I was extremely lucky and honored to come across the Flat Four replica BRMs that ended up on my '67. They're the best part that I've ever seen reproduced. I didn't care for the center caps but I could've lived with 'em. We're in the same boat, being on a budget. So real BRMs would never see my ownership unless they were given to me. But after having my F.F. wheels for about a year now... I've come to the same conclusion; I actually (purists, don't read any further) prefer my modern ones to the originals. They're better made, easier to keep clean, and much safer. I just wipe 'em down and I'm done. Not being 20 years young, anymore... I'm over the wheel polishing ritual.

These new steering wheels are cool and I'm glad that some people will get a chance to enjoy them. But for me, I gotta have something different. In a perfect world, I'd have enough money to totally go through my car and get the transmission, engine, and anodized 911 wheels that I want. But I'm very happy to have what I currently drive. Thank you, Flat Four/Mr. Komori for making a great BRM wheel. Fully agree with your post, Donny... well written.

[Critter1]

Can someone post the web site for Flat-4 please? I had it bookmarked, but its no good anymore...

I just picked up this Speedwell wheel on the right from Simon Fox. Its the one that was on his sweet 65 Looker, and it was NOS when he installed it so its still "near NOS". The boss is a Flat-4, and the flying "S" came out of a Lucas horn push. The lucas push wouldn't work with the Flat-4 boss, so I installed the Flying "S" into a repop EMPI horn push from Flat-4. Looks good.
The Formula wheel on the left I've had for a while. One of them is going in my Fastback.



I wonder if Flat-4 is going to repop this horn push....

[Critter1]

While at the ISP West BBQ 2009 I had the chance to compare the new reproduction Speedwell wheel from Flat-4 with my original Speedwell wheel. There are some differences that will separate the original form the repro. The quality of the Flat-4 wheel is top notch and I am in no way knocking it here. In fact it felt more solid than the original. The wood grain is a dead on match to the original, and has a very nice gloss finish. Here are a couple of the differences (with the repro).

- The aluminum spokes are a thicker gauge. Which IMO makes it strong.
- The spokes, at their smallest point, before they flare out to the wood is wider.
- The wood rim is slightly thicker.

If you notice in the picture the center section of the repro is larger in diameter than the original one pictured. The difference probably being between an early and a later model of the wheel. They were both offered originally. The repro has a dish of about 4 inches. I didn't measure it, but it was deeper than mine which is three inches.

ISP is working on a boss for this wheel. The repro wheel they had was for display only and they are not yet selling it.

Original on the left. Reproduction Flat-4 on the right.

[empicolector]

top product like always with FLAT4

[johnl]

I'm an old guy (65 next month) and if there is one thing I learned it's to be less concerned about what others decide or do and be more concerned about what I decide and do.  I have repro BRMs.  I always wanted the real thing and figured out that I would be lucky to get Repros.  It gives me the look I like and that is all that matters to me.  I have a Repro Empi steering wheel and I am fine with that I don't care that many others have them or that it is not original.  I like the way it looks!  Personally I prefer the look of the repro to the original.  That is my opinion.  I do realize that this is perhaps heresy on this site, but that is OK with me.  I made my choices for me not for everyone else.  I am sure that the new wheel have many takers.  That makes Flat-4 just that much more profitable.  Be happy that someone out there is making quality parts for our VWs.  Many businesses have suffered and gone out of business.  Now if I just had more money to spend on my car I would be a lot happier.  I will now get down off my soap box.

Donny, well stated.  As the Rick Nelson's Garden Party says, "You've got to please yourself".  Everyone can't have the best and most rare items of the day.  I'd love to have my original American's again, but the prices for them are out of sight.  One can actually purchase a very close appearance wheel that is much stronger and safer for a fracition of todays price for the original.

I'd also like to comment on those companies that have gone away because of tough times or lack of interest in their products at the time.  I've been involved in producing some reproduction items for other makes over the years.  Customers were quick to complain about price, delivery, etc., but when we ceased to have them available the items became much more in demand.

For the majority of users that haven't a clue what it takes to make some of this stuff happen they will continue to be critical of those who do. 

PS:  I'm just a snotty nose kid of 62 

[Rick Meredith]

PS:  I'm just a snotty nose kid of 62 

Whippersnapper! 

[qubek]

I'm an old guy (65 next month) and if there is one thing I learned it's to be less concerned about what others decide or do and be more concerned about what I decide and do.  I have repro BRMs.  I always wanted the real thing and figured out that I would be lucky to get Repros.  It gives me the look I like and that is all that matters to me.  I have a Repro Empi steering wheel and I am fine with that I don't care that many others have them or that it is not original.  I like the way it looks!  Personally I prefer the look of the repro to the original.  That is my opinion.  I do realize that this is perhaps heresy on this site, but that is OK with me.  I made my choices for me not for everyone else.  I am sure that the new wheel have many takers.  That makes Flat-4 just that much more profitable.  Be happy that someone out there is making quality parts for our VWs.  Many businesses have suffered and gone out of business.  Now if I just had more money to spend on my car I would be a lot happier.  I will now get down off my soap box.

Hi Don 

Just to offer another perspective.  I, like you, dont like to follow the crowd.  I tend to do what I like with my car.  One of the reasons that I love Cal-Look VW's is that they are different than most hot-rods.  If I wanted to do what everyone else does, I would build a Camaro or Nova.  Within the VW hobby, I also like being a bit different too.  This is why I put Americans on my car over ten years ago instead of BRM's.  Now this may not be important to you, but the quest for rare parts has always been a major componant of why I enjoy this hobby.

To offer some history,  I used to have a normal Empi steering wheel on my car, but the replicas came out and soon everyone had them.  So, I searched out a Speedwell wheel and spent a good chunk of money on it...just to be a bit different.  Now, there is a repro and once again everyone will have them.

I search long and hard for a 67 vert decklid back in the mid 90's and now people are fabricating them.  I spent another large chunk of money to buy an original Scheel seat racing seat used on the 911 ST's back in 1971 and installed it in my 911.  Six months later, someone started reproducing them.  I spent $800 for a pair of Cibie hood lights for my 911 and before I could get them installed, reproductions came out.  I never have bothered to install them since everybody seems to have them now.  Uber rare hockey puck horn button for my 911.....12 months after finding one reproductions are released.  Now everyone has one. 

There is nothing that can be done about it...the demand is being filled by enterprising companies.  But acknowledging this doesnt mean that I dont have a right to be frustrated every time some cool part I searched for months or years to find is reproduced in mass quantities.  This doesnt mean that cars with reproduction parts are any less valid that one who has all original bits.  But, you cannot ignore that rarity is a major componant of desirability.  Would we lust after a Ferrari GTO if they had been made in the same quantities as Chevy Chevette's?  Or, if a company came out with a perfect Ferrari replica, accurate in every way, and offered them at a cost and quantity where the average car guy could afford them...do you think the originals would retain thier cache'?

Again, nothing more than my perspective.  Best, DC

The problem is that trying to be different, you are as much depended on fashion as when you're trying to follow other people (current) tastes.
Buying parts that are different than those that other people have is simmilar to buying things that are popular (and there is nothing wrong with that) In both cases it is following other people tastes, it's just the direction that changes. I try to buy parts I like - no matter if they are in the fashion or not. Anyway, fashion changes too fast for me.
Of course I would be a fool claiming that I'm not influenced by fashion - we all are, whether we admit it or not.

I can understand the frustration of people investing money in goods that than loose value. But for me, Beetles, cal-look etc are a hobby, not a business. If someone treat all this as a business than he must take into account various factors that can influence the value of his investments. Like for example the probability that a rare part can be reproduced.

Finally, I have to admit that I, personally, would lust after a Ferrari GTO even if it was as popular as VW Golf. It would still be a great and beautiful (my opinion) machine.
I didn't invest in one so I wouldn't cry if their value dropped. An if a perfect replica of GTO I could effort would became available..... hmmmm

My perspective. Although I admit that chasing rare parts may be a very interesting hobby. But I think not only because they're expensive?

Now I have a set of 5 Flat-4 BRMs and I wouldn't trade them for a real set.  I have seen how crude the originals are.  Like a friend in Nebraska said "they are junk".

Well and now Flat 4 has just changed their BRMs design so they look more like "junk" 
Really. I don't think this is an improvement

[Donny B.]

The junk remark was in regard to safety.  They crack and and they are brittle.  You can get them welded, but they are never the same.  They don't have a safety bead like the new wheels.  They are light... so what!  I only drive on the street anyway.