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Diederick/DVK
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« on: May 29, 2009, 12:47:12 pm » |
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just another query off the top of my head. i have most of the queries with regard to my engine build solved by now, but this one is still a mystery.
i will be running a nice 181 fanhouse and i have all the internals. but no thermostat yet. i have heard about welding the "flaps" open and leaving them out, which seem like easy options. but other people vouch for a thermostat as it's the way it was meant to be so why not run it in a hipo VW engine, too. all i know is it will allow for a quicker warmup of the engine...
i'd like to hear some opinions on this. mind you, i haven't got a thermostat yet and they can't be bought new as far as i know...
thanks in advance!
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Diederick
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Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2009, 13:52:07 pm » |
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i know, did a search after posting and i will get that one i suppose. just wondering what the general consensus is. my proformance header should run under the cylinder heads as far as i know. my last BP header ran under the cylinders, well then i get your point...  |
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Diederick
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Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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danny gabbard
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2009, 17:05:49 pm » |
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There is a complete nos set up on the samba, in general parts on page 5-6. they could'nt hurt haveing them .
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A poor craftsman, Blame's it on poor tools. GAB-FAB shop # 775 246-3069
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2009, 17:32:03 pm » |
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I think a thermostat is the way to go, but like mentioned you need to make sure the header runs under the heads like it did with the heater boxes. Also using (or making) some shields for the 1 & 3 pipes like a Thing had would be a good idea as well.
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
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youngnstudly
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 17:45:15 pm » |
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Your concern was my concern a few days ago (as I am completing my 2276 right now). If you read some of the posts further down, some of the guys give me input on using the flaps and thermostat. http://www.cal-look.com/forum/index.php/topic,30268.0.html-Andy |
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There may be rocks, there may be chips, but one things for sure...I drive this bitch!
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John Rayburn
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 20:18:03 pm » |
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I know two people that had disasters when the thermostat failed and didn't open. I leave it off.
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I also park at Nick's.
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Lids
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 20:19:02 pm » |
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weld it open if you are planning not to run a thermostat
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2009, 20:44:02 pm » |
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I know two people that had disasters when the thermostat failed and didn't open. I leave it off.
It is designed to fail in the open position. When I was 16 I was driving my Dad's Beetle around town on a hot Fourth of July when the motor started running abnormally hot. Seems something had wedged itself behind the shroud and prevented the flaps from opening. Could have been a disaster if it wasn't for the gauges warning me. |
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
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youngnstudly
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2009, 00:34:53 am » |
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I know two people that had disasters when the thermostat failed and didn't open. I leave it off.
It is designed to fail in the open position. When I was 16 I was driving my Dad's Beetle around town on a hot Fourth of July when the motor started running abnormally hot. Seems something had wedged itself behind the shroud and prevented the flaps from opening. Could have been a disaster if it wasn't for the gauges warning me. The old thermostats fail in the open position but the new (replacement) bellow-type ones don't and that's what John is talking about. That's why I am leaning towards no thermostat (unless I can find an old one that is in good condition-not too likely though  ). |
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There may be rocks, there may be chips, but one things for sure...I drive this bitch!
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Steve DKK
DKK
Jr. Member
Posts: 92
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2009, 02:45:14 am » |
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Unless you are experiencing sub zero German winters I would lose the thermostat.
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Go fast, don't turn
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Dave Rosique
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2009, 03:06:02 am » |
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I vote lose the thermostat, keep the flaps & linkage secured in the open position. Horsepower=heat... I've never had a problem warming up an air cooled VW I think they call 'em Hot VW's for a reason... ok, I'll stop now  ~DR. |
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Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2009, 08:55:44 am » |
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ok, different opinions here. but thanks!
so, how could i secure the flaps since i cannot weld...
that thermostat posted posted by 181 is the one i meant, it's NOS so should fail like VW meant it to fail too.
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Diederick
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Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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Bruce
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2009, 16:51:30 pm » |
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..., how could i secure the flaps since i cannot weld...
Just install them with the stock spring. They'll stay wide open. I did a test with my car. I have a pair of flaps that are welded wide open. In or out, they make no difference. I think Jake's test showed the same. |
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Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2009, 19:00:55 pm » |
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hi bruce, thanks for the post. which spring do you mean? my flaps don't have a spring.
and do you mean jake raby? what did he test?
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Diederick
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Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2009, 22:38:51 pm » |
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hi bruce, thanks for the post. which spring do you mean? my flaps don't have a spring.
and do you mean jake raby? what did he test?
There is a spring that works "against" the thermostat, you can see it here behind the linkage that connects the flaps:  |
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
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Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2009, 23:56:45 pm » |
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ok, thanks zach!
so if i mount it this way and not hook up the thermostat it'll work fine?
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Diederick
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Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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Dave Rosique
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2009, 02:33:11 am » |
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ok, thanks zach!
so if i mount it this way and not hook up the thermostat it'll work fine?
Correct Deid, the spring will keep the flaps open. I've never welded the flaps in place, but I've replaced the spring with mechanics wire many times with no problems. ~DR. |
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Steve DKK
DKK
Jr. Member
Posts: 92
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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2009, 04:04:05 am » |
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Why not just remove them?
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Go fast, don't turn
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Jesse/DVK
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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2009, 10:41:56 am » |
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I believe they direct the air more to the heads.
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Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2009, 10:43:54 am » |
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jesse, will you be using a spring like shown above too? have you fitted the flaps already? p.s. good luck building today! |
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Diederick
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Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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Bruce
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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2009, 17:55:31 pm » |
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I believe they direct the air more to the heads.
That's what Gene said. But the tests Jake did (Raby) showed otherwise. I saw no difference when I removed them. Cooling fan speed has a much bigger effect. A bigger pulley at the bottom cools way better. |
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2009, 19:12:38 pm » |
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I believe they direct the air more to the heads.
That's what Gene said. But the tests Jake did (Raby) showed otherwise. I saw no difference when I removed them. Cooling fan speed has a much bigger effect. A bigger pulley at the bottom cools way better. Or a smaller 356/912 at the top! Or both! Either way you better have a welded fan! |
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
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TexasTom
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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2009, 20:34:55 pm » |
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I always like to run the flaps and also the thermo whenever possible. But, clearance issues with merged headers and aftermarket fan shrouds often stand in the way. On the other hand, thermostats do little work on 100+ degree Texas afternoons and 80 degree mornings!  |
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Work, work, WORK!
Modesty accepted here ...
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SlingShot
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2009, 22:29:32 pm » |
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I vote lose the thermostat, keep the flaps & linkage secured in the open position. Horsepower=heat... I've never had a problem warming up an air cooled VW I think they call 'em Hot VW's for a reason... ok, I'll stop now ~DR. Horsepower=heat... This is true, but a Thermostat will allow the engine to get up to proper temp quicker. |
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Will Race For Beer !!!
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Jesse/DVK
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« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2009, 23:35:18 pm » |
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I believe they direct the air more to the heads.
That's what Gene said. But the tests Jake did (Raby) showed otherwise. I saw no difference when I removed them. Cooling fan speed has a much bigger effect. A bigger pulley at the bottom cools way better. Is this test available somewhere? I have a Bugpack 36hp fanshroud in which flaps are hard to install. If removing them should make no difference that should be nice. Warming up a high perf engine is always a must with the big sumps etc.. |
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Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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Jesse/DVK
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2009, 13:59:39 pm » |
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Anybody knows where I can find the test?
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Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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