California Cool Pully

[Tony M]

Dont know if any body has seen one - had to order some parts and found it  - just had to order it to see what i looked like - 200mm in size

[Zach Gomulka]

Or you could get a 356/912 gen pulley, easier to swap

[Jim Ratto]

or just build a motor that doesn't overheat with stock pulleys

[deano]

There was a company based in sothern California (Blimp?) that started selling those about 5-6 years ago, mainly for the buses. I recall that you can not use your normal full-flow fittings taped into the case galley, as the larger pulley got in the way. Sheet metal fit was also an issue. Haven't seen them marketed around lately....

[Tony M]

I got this thing for a bus guy - not for me - my engine allready runs too cool - but if he does not want it i'll use it to build my motors - nice and big - but the silly guys printed the degree numbers up side down - tdc at bdc 

[Rennsurfer]

or just build a motor that doesn't overheat with stock pulleys

Dang it... you beat me to it. Well played, Sir.

[glenn]

or just build a motor that doesn't overheat with stock pulleys

Dang it... you beat me to it. Well played, Sir.

Or find why its running hot.

[Jim Ratto]

I hate to think what the poor alternator and fan think of that thing.

[Rennsurfer]

I hate to think what the poor alternator and fan think of that thing.

Dude, you're on a roll.

[Zach Gomulka]

or just build a motor that doesn't overheat with stock pulleys

I run a 356/912 generator pulley year 'round. Runs cooler in the summer, and the heater really burns you out of the car in the winter

[Tony M]

There was a company based in sothern California (Blimp?) that started selling those about 5-6 years ago, mainly for the buses. I recall that you can not use your normal full-flow fittings taped into the case galley, as the larger pulley got in the way. Sheet metal fit was also an issue. Haven't seen them marketed around lately....

That is what i did not know - this guys bus is full flowed - sound like i wll be using it to assemble engines - His bus is running about 40deg's hotter - but thats on the cyl head temp guage - his oil temp is good 195deg - He is a do it your selfer - comes in to buy parts only - This pully came from a small w/d in the central valley.

[stealth67vw]

AC.net sells those too.

[Torben Alstrup]

I have used them a few times on bus engines. I have to admit that I ´ve never compared head temps. But in a split bus with a straight axle trans set up and a 3,88 R/P, pulled by an 80ish hp 1776 the oil temps was reduced by 8 degree C. in the driving range 80 - 110 km/h ( 50 -70 mph.)
But yes you do up gear the fan quite a bit, so it´s not something one would do on a high reving engine.
T

[deano]

AC.net sells those too.

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ESM0038&cartid=

[Jim Ratto]

There was a company based in sothern California (Blimp?) that started selling those about 5-6 years ago, mainly for the buses. I recall that you can not use your normal full-flow fittings taped into the case galley, as the larger pulley got in the way. Sheet metal fit was also an issue. Haven't seen them marketed around lately....

That is what i did not know - this guys bus is full flowed - sound like i wll be using it to assemble engines - His bus is running about 40deg's hotter - but thats on the cyl head temp guage - his oil temp is good 195deg - He is a do it your selfer - comes in to buy parts only - This pully came from a small w/d in the central valley.

If he's running the stock VW doghouse shroud and B fan and all his rubber seals and grommets are in place and heaters hooked up and he didn't put some super tall R/P and/or 4th gear in the trans then he shouldn't need to overspin the fan like that. Oil temp of 195 isn't in the "danger zone" at all, assuming he is using a good quality 20W50 (not low $ crap) and that his max temp over a long hot grade (think Grapevine in July) doesn't hold @ 215F or higher. Head temps are so hard to talk about... 1. how hot is "hot"? (nobody seems to know) 2. where is the "right" place to mount sender 3. How accurate is the sender and/or gauge?
I think I would throw an a/f ratio thing in the exhaust pipe and see where's it running....if it isn't too lean (or rich) and the oil temps stay within reason and nothing like the stuff I mentioned above has been done to the bus.... he's golden.

Guys used to come in all day @ BH wanting to put straight axle kits in their '65 hippy busses, along with 3.88 R/P and an .082 4th. Then next they'd be buying a taiwan chrome fan shroud and then be back mid summer wanting to replace their cooked motors. Never failed. You'd tried to talk them out of nuking their motors with those "V8 gears" and they'd stare thru you and gaze in amazement at the latest air fresheners on the wall behind us. Whoa..... dude....

[Jim Ratto]

There was a company based in sothern California (Blimp?) that started selling those about 5-6 years ago, mainly for the buses. I recall that you can not use your normal full-flow fittings taped into the case galley, as the larger pulley got in the way. Sheet metal fit was also an issue. Haven't seen them marketed around lately....

That is what i did not know - this guys bus is full flowed - sound like i wll be using it to assemble engines - His bus is running about 40deg's hotter - but thats on the cyl head temp guage - his oil temp is good 195deg - He is a do it your selfer - comes in to buy parts only - This pully came from a small w/d in the central valley.

If he's running the stock VW doghouse shroud and B fan and all his rubber seals and grommets are in place and heaters hooked up and he didn't put some super tall R/P and/or 4th gear in the trans then he shouldn't need to overspin the fan like that. Oil temp of 195 isn't in the "danger zone" at all, assuming he is using a good quality 20W50 (not low $ crap) and that his max temp over a long hot grade (think Grapevine in July) doesn't hold @ 215F or higher. Head temps are so hard to talk about... 1. how hot is "hot"? (nobody seems to know) 2. where is the "right" place to mount sender 3. How accurate is the sender and/or gauge?
I think I would throw an a/f ratio thing in the exhaust pipe and see where's it running....if it isn't too lean (or rich) and the oil temps stay within reason and nothing like the stuff I mentioned above has been done to the bus.... he's golden.

Guys used to come in all day @ BH wanting to put straight axle kits in their '65 hippy busses, along with 3.88 R/P and an .082 4th. Then next they'd be buying a taiwan chrome fan shroud and then be back mid summer wanting to replace their cooked motors. Never failed. You'd tried to talk them out of nuking their motors with those "V8 gears" and they'd stare thru you and gaze in amazement at the latest air fresheners on the wall behind us. Whoa..... dude....

One other thing.... Tony is he running the stock VW muffler? 

[Hotrodvw]

It's for those guy sthat don't run any rear surrounding tins, exposed headers and such.....   Rob peter to pay paul.   

[Tony M]

He is running a header - told him the same thing - if the oil temp is ok - than dont look at the cyl temp guage - it does have full tin, dog house, seals - the guy is pretty good about having all the right stuff - stock 71 bus trans - using Berg hemi cut heads, AJ Sims 40 kadrons - Not going to worie any more - Thanks for all the input - I will pass it along to him.

[Hotrodvw]

Ironically, the head temps are the one you want to watch, not the oil temps.  If your head temps are in check, you oil will be also........It's a 2 for 1 deal. 

[bugnut68]

Ironically, the head temps are the one you want to watch, not the oil temps.  If your head temps are in check, you oil will be also........It's a 2 for 1 deal. 

Indeed, I support this wholeheartedly.  Oil doesn't cool the heads.  Your heads could be nearly on fire while your oil temps could be in check, too, so it's not so much a mutually complimentary situation.

[Jim Ratto]

Ironically, the head temps are the one you want to watch, not the oil temps.  If your head temps are in check, you oil will be also........It's a 2 for 1 deal. 

  Oil doesn't cool the heads. 

That's not true. Oil can contribute to more than 30% of the cyl heads' cooling.

[Hotrodvw]

The point is, and this is where the rubber meets the road, that the oil can not cool the heads to a suitable temp if things are out of wack......but the heads can help to cool the oil.  Don't put a band-aid on your elbow, when the problem is on your knee. 

[bugnut68]

Ironically, the head temps are the one you want to watch, not the oil temps.  If your head temps are in check, you oil will be also........It's a 2 for 1 deal. 

  Oil doesn't cool the heads. 

That's not true. Oil can contribute to more than 30% of the cyl heads' cooling.

 I've been led to believe otherwise, but if I've been misled I'm always willing to learn new things...

[Tony M]

Talked to the guy last night - He found the wire for the cyl head temp was cut and rubbing on the cyl tin at the spark plug - recovered the wire and made a slit into the air dam - The engine droped 30deg's of head temp at idle and 50deg's when running at freeway speeds - This just proves that you never jump to conclusions - Thermocoupler wire will take a nother heat sourse and add it to what is allready there. So problem fixed 

[Jim Ratto]

The point is, and this is where the rubber meets the road, that the oil can not cool the heads to a suitable temp if things are out of wack......but the heads can help to cool the oil.  Don't put a band-aid on your elbow, when the problem is on your knee. 

Hello,

I don't think the heads are ever at a temp that is cooler than the engine's oil . The heads are not part of the "cooling system"... if they were ever cooling the oil we'd all be going back to our physics professors to argue. For the oil to find any cooling, the heads would have to be heat exchangers, which they are for air... but it's the other way around, the heads are not cooling the air.
I think more than the heads contribute to a sizeable percentage of the heat in engine oil. Reason why I think that is that in the 1990's Jerry Young and I built an electric powered (by drive belt and pulleys) VW case and crank that was built solely for cam break in. We took a .030" crank, cut the small end and shanks off 4 rods, a full flowed case, empty cylinders (no pistons) and dropped in cam and lifters to be broken in. We ran 2 lifters at a time (all the electric motor liked to turn) against stock VW springs with stock rockers and swivel feet. Filled up case with (I forget how many quarts, it was something like 7 or green Kendall 40W and ran each pair of lifters for 30 min. We tore "motor" apart in between pairs of lifters to swap them in and out, and then on to next pair. In the 30 minutes of cycling, the full flow filter and lines we ran on this got pretty warm... in fact after the first 30 min cycling the filter was hot to touch. No wonder: I checked oil temp down dipstick tube with a meat thermometer and it was @ 140F. Now, you have to realize, there was NO oil cooler on this thing at all... but it's interesting to see how much heat spring pressure and oil getting forced thru oil pump (26mm) gears generated. We ended up doing 5 or 6 cams with this thing and they all lived... but it was so much work and oil going down the drain... never used it again after those.

The thing with speeding the fan up....  isn't the stock fan helpless after X-rpm anyway? Cavitation and all....
Might be a good idea on a constant rpm industrial motor that's pumping water or something out by Salton Sea..... but c'mon this is all about RPM baby... it's the LOUNGE.

[Tony M]

The point is, and this is where the rubber meets the road, that the oil can not cool the heads to a suitable temp if things are out of wack......but the heads can help to cool the oil.  Don't put a band-aid on your elbow, when the problem is on your knee. 

Hello,

I don't think the heads are ever at a temp that is cooler than the engine's oil temp, except maybe during the first few minutes (seconds?) of first warm up. The heads are not part of the "cooling system"... if they were ever cooling the oil we'd all be going back to our physics professors to argue. For the oil to find any cooling, the heads would have to be heat exchangers, which they are for air... but it's the other way around, the heads are not cooling the air.
I think more than the heads contribute to a sizeable percentage of the heat in engine oil. Reason why I think that is that in the 1990's Jerry Young and I built an electric powered (by drive belt and pulleys) VW case and crank that was built solely for cam break in. We took a .030" crank, cut the small end and shanks off 4 rods, a full flowed case, empty cylinders (no pistons) and dropped in cam and lifters to be broken in. We ran 2 lifters at a time (all the electric motor liked to turn) against stock VW springs with stock rockers and swivel feet. Filled up case with (I forget how many quarts, it was something like 7 or green Kendall 40W and ran each pair of lifters for 30 min. We tore "motor" apart in between pairs of lifters to swap them in and out, and then on to next pair. In the 30 minutes of cycling, the full flow filter and lines we ran on this got pretty warm... in fact after the first 30 min cycling the filter was hot to touch. No wonder: I checked oil temp down dipstick tube with a meat thermometer and it was @ 140F. Now, you have to realize, there was NO oil cooler on this thing at all... but it's interesting to see how much heat spring pressure and oil getting forced thru oil pump (26mm) gears generated. We ended up doing 5 or 6 cams with this thing and they all lived... but it was so much work and oil going down the drain... never used it again after those.

The thing with speeding the fan up....  isn't the stock fan helpless after X-rpm anyway? Cavitation and all....
Might be a good idea on a constant rpm industrial motor that's pumping water or something out by Salton Sea..... but c'mon this is all about RPM baby... it's the LOUNGE.

you guys hade too much time on your hands 

[Jim Ratto]

The point is, and this is where the rubber meets the road, that the oil can not cool the heads to a suitable temp if things are out of wack......but the heads can help to cool the oil.  Don't put a band-aid on your elbow, when the problem is on your knee. 

Hello,

I don't think the heads are ever at a temp that is cooler than the engine's oil temp, except maybe during the first few minutes (seconds?) of first warm up. The heads are not part of the "cooling system"... if they were ever cooling the oil we'd all be going back to our physics professors to argue. For the oil to find any cooling, the heads would have to be heat exchangers, which they are for air... but it's the other way around, the heads are not cooling the air.
I think more than the heads contribute to a sizeable percentage of the heat in engine oil. Reason why I think that is that in the 1990's Jerry Young and I built an electric powered (by drive belt and pulleys) VW case and crank that was built solely for cam break in. We took a .030" crank, cut the small end and shanks off 4 rods, a full flowed case, empty cylinders (no pistons) and dropped in cam and lifters to be broken in. We ran 2 lifters at a time (all the electric motor liked to turn) against stock VW springs with stock rockers and swivel feet. Filled up case with (I forget how many quarts, it was something like 7 or green Kendall 40W and ran each pair of lifters for 30 min. We tore "motor" apart in between pairs of lifters to swap them in and out, and then on to next pair. In the 30 minutes of cycling, the full flow filter and lines we ran on this got pretty warm... in fact after the first 30 min cycling the filter was hot to touch. No wonder: I checked oil temp down dipstick tube with a meat thermometer and it was @ 140F. Now, you have to realize, there was NO oil cooler on this thing at all... but it's interesting to see how much heat spring pressure and oil getting forced thru oil pump (26mm) gears generated. We ended up doing 5 or 6 cams with this thing and they all lived... but it was so much work and oil going down the drain... never used it again after those.

The thing with speeding the fan up....  isn't the stock fan helpless after X-rpm anyway? Cavitation and all....
Might be a good idea on a constant rpm industrial motor that's pumping water or something out by Salton Sea..... but c'mon this is all about RPM baby... it's the LOUNGE.

you guys hade too much time on your hands 

yeah that's why I was at the shop until 9:00pm almost every night back then...  :-*yourself

[Tony M]

HEY 1970 - GFY -  - 

[Rick Meredith]

HEY 1970 - GFY -  - 

Good For You??? 

[Bruce]

....  isn't the stock fan helpless after X-rpm anyway? Cavitation and all.....

There's no such thing as cavitation when pushing air.  Cavitation only happens with liquids.