setting locked distributor??

[Diederick/DVK]

i have the books by bill fisher and tom wilson and none of them - as far as i can read round this hour - mentions setting the ignition. i would like to run a locked distributor, so i suppose that would be the same as setting initial advance, but then at 28 degrees instead of say 10.

also, i don't have any timing marks on my pulley. but i can hold one with a timing rings against it at draw a small line at 28 degrees. how do i now set the dist at 28 degrees?

sorry for the perhaps blunt question, but i really need to know soon 

[richie]

What distributor is it? points or magnetic pick up? you really need a pulley with marks,or some way to determine what 28degrees btdc is at.When you have found were you want it to fire at,you need the points to be just opening,or the pickup to be just about to go past the magnet,is the engine in the car?
If you can set it close then whan the engine is running set it correctly

cheers richie,uk

[Diederick/DVK]

cheers richie, it's a vertex magneto. and the engine is pretty stock s/p with kadrons. i'd like 28 degrees locked advance.

i found this cool formula on a website that is renowned for its ads:

1) 6.75 (diameter of a stock pulley) x 3.1416= 21.2058"
2) 21.2058 divided by 360 = 0.058905"
3) 0.058905 x 28 (degrees of advance you want) = 1.64934" or about 4.189 cm  from TDC mark.

that is to the left of the TDC marking on the stock pulley. i will measure that and mark it.
but before the engine is running, what should i look for under the magneto cap? engine isn't in the car yet, but going in today (hopefully)

sorry for the questions but i'm working my ass off to get to EBI - still waiting on parts as well, pretty frustrating

cheers

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

Diederick if you want a wake up call pull the cap grab a hold of the small red post sticking up and slowly turn the mag  I think you will be Shocked at the Results you Get LMAO

[Diederick/DVK]

i know gary. i will get fired up, but my engine won't 
can you help me out on this one though? i bought a spare engine to get to EBI, so I really want it work

[Bruce]

...that is to the left of the TDC marking on the stock pulley.

Right, not left.

[Fastbrit]

Once you have found and marked the 28° mark on the pulley, set the engine so that mark aligns with the split in the case. Turn the magneto so that the rotor arm is pointing at #1 plug lead. Then put a cigarette paper between the points of the magneto and slowly turn the magneto anticlockwise until you can JUST pull the paper from between the points. Tighten up the mag clamp, start the engine and then do the final timing using a strobe light.

[Diederick/DVK]

cheers guys, i'm hoping to sort it tonight !
i just don't get why one should turn the mag anticlockwise if it's just set to point at #1 plug lead.

[Fastbrit]

cheers guys, i'm hoping to sort it tonight !
i just don't get why one should turn the mag anticlockwise if it's just set to point at #1 plug lead.

Because the spark happens the moment the points open. By turning the mag anticlockwise, you mimic the rotation of the rotor arm.

[Diederick/DVK]

thanks KS, i'll have a go at it 
how about 24 degrees for a stocker with kadrons? 28 might be close to pinging?

i do have a ronco degree ring, but i don't get the use of it. i can spin it around and that would supposedly alter the ignition timing...

[Diederick/DVK]

here is what i did:
set the pulley at TDC for cylinder #1, then i measured the 24 degree mark with the formula mentioned above, and i marked a line at 3.6cm to the right of TDC. double checked the position with another pulley with timing ring. and i set the mag to point to the cylinder #1 mark. then we get to the fag paper. in this position the points weren't touching, but if i turned it clockwise they did move towards each other. so, basically i did NOT spin it anticlockwise after point the rotor to cylinder #1.

so, the points were just opening i suppose, like richie mentioned. please let me know if i set it up correctly 

cheers!

[dirk zeyen]

i would do it a little different.
set the pulley at 28 degree for cylinder one.
take the ignition cable from cylinder one and put a spark plug inside so you can see it put it on some bare metal on you car.
turn your distributor in rotor direction some way.
turn on your ignition
now turn your distributor slowly against rotation direction and watch your spark plug
at the moment you see the spark the timing is ok.

dirk

[richie]

i would do it a little different.
set the pulley at 28 degree for cylinder one.
take the ignition cable from cylinder one and put a spark plug inside so you can see it put it on some bare metal on you car.
turn your distributor in rotor direction some way.
turn on your ignition
now turn your distributor slowly against rotation direction and watch your spark plug
at the moment you see the spark the timing is ok.

dirk

I dont think the engine is in the car yet,if it was this is how I would have suggested to

cheers richie,uk

[Diederick/DVK]

it is in. i haven't sorted the electrics yet though.

so should i do this when i have connected the lot? connect #1 plug lead, insert spark plug. what kind of bare metal are you referring to the engine bay to the right of cylinder 1 and 2? or am i gonna toast something 

at second thought, with a magneto you don't need to turn on the ignition, i will only need to ground the mag right? (yes, i will run a kill switch when i hook it all up)

[Steve DKK]

Just a thought.
1) 30-32 degrees is my choice
2) Yes your formula works to mark the pully and the mark should be made clockwise of TDC
3) Yes rotating the mag Anit clockwise untill the points open is the actual spark.
4) But, Why a mag? is it just for looks? nostalgia?
Electronic is;
Dependable
One hot ass spark
Never needs to be adjusted or the Points played with
Does not rob horse power just to turn the thing
Does not destroy brass distributor grive gears
and relatively cheap.

[Jesse/DVK]

Diederick goes for the nostalgia look.

His girlfriend doesn't like the 70's style 

[Fastbrit]

Just a thought.
1) 30-32 degrees is my choice
2) Yes your formula works to mark the pully and the mark should be made clockwise of TDC
3) Yes rotating the mag Anit clockwise untill the points open is the actual spark.
4) But, Why a mag? is it just for looks? nostalgia?
Electronic is;
Dependable
One hot ass spark
Never needs to be adjusted or the Points played with
Does not rob horse power just to turn the thing
Does not destroy brass distributor grive gears
and relatively cheap.

What! Mags don't destroy drive gear! Roger Crawford showed they actually made power... Hmmm. PLUS they look bitchin'!

[Ole]

4) But, Why a mag? is it just for looks? nostalgia?
Electronic is;
Dependable
One hot ass spark
Never needs to be adjusted or the Points played with
Does not rob horse power just to turn the thing
Does not destroy brass distributor grive gears
and relatively cheap.

When I put the Pink Panther's engine back into service it was the first time I put my fingers on a Magneto. You guess what happened....

My plan was to try if it works, if not I would have replaced it with a VW TSZH ignition (imagine that!). After some issues I got the thing fired up and all I can tell is that if you do everything it requires it works fine. More than that, I NEVER had problems getting the car started, no missfires up to 8.5k plus you don't need a battery for the ignition. I always have to smile when I see cars with MSD/Mallory/Turbo-Blaster/Hyper-Fire-Ignitions rattle down the track on three cylinders... Only thing is there are no three steps for it but hey, who needs modern crap like that?

... Tighten up the mag clamp, start the engine and then do the final timing using a strobe light.

Keith, I tried to set the timing with several strobe lights but none of them worked right. I searched for information and found out that the only way to set the timing correctly is the static way, using a cigarette paper or a buzzer. Are there strobe lights for magnetos?

Saludos,

Ole

[Diederick/DVK]

very true jesse
it's all about the mojo. it look bitching from just sitting there in the engine bay! i just puts a smile on my face when i enter the garage

30-32 degrees isn't that a bit much for a stocker with kadrons?

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

30-32 degrees isn't that a bit much for a stocker with kadrons?

You have to Remember the Mag is Locked in so your full advance all the time I would not run that much advance on a Stocker   just my 2 cents

[JS]

How did you get the mag locked out? Did you do it yourself or have a shop modify it for you?

[Diederick/DVK]

it's a vertex mag, and i bought it locked out.
so it'd better be locked out. otherwise i might toast the engine 

[Jim Ratto]

I suggested 28 degrees because a stock motor will run well with 30 and a conventional 009, 010, whatever... it's TOTAL advance we're talking about. BUT I suggested pulling it back to 28 because your starter motor will not like trying to fire up against a locked mag set @ 28 or beyond... and even @ 28 you're going to have to "learn" what your motor wants to crank and actually fire. Some want no throttle opening, some want a sip of fuel first, some will just crank and fire no matter what, but most certainly, running the locked mag/dist will require you get motor cranking then turn on mag.
I know I have locked in my '67 and if you just try 'starting it'....you'll get nowhere.
I doubt your motor will like only 24 deg total. A low CR stock motor can take more advance than that... like Steve W said above 30-32 would probably run best but then starting it is going to be the bitch.

[JS]

Didn´t someone talk about running the starter for a sec and then hit the switch to "prime" the motor so it starts more easily when running a locked mag?
I tried to back off the ignition on my mag to 28 degrees, runs really great. 2276 11:1 compression.

[mr horsepower]

Hey for me there s one way to go put the engine on a dyno turn the ignition so that it gives the most hp
and then lock it ,to start the engine use a killer switch crank it and then hit the switch and it will start up,
but you first have to break in the engine.
thats the way i always do it .when the engine gives the most hp it tells you you ve found the perfect setting.
depending on you fuel octane cr air temp and lots of other things.

Greets Henri.

[Diederick/DVK]

Didn´t someone talk about running the starter for a sec and then hit the switch to "prime" the motor so it starts more easily when running a locked mag?
I tried to back off the ignition on my mag to 28 degrees, runs really great. 2276 11:1 compression.

that be mr ratto himself
all right, i'm going to measure stuff again (for 28 degrees) tomorrow and set the mag. also need to wire it all up and crank the engine for oil pressure. and lots of other stuff.

thanks everyone

[JS]

Mr horsepower is of course absolutely right, I have no dyno figures to back up my claim yet.