cooling comparison: OE German '71- shroud vs. Brazil "industrial" lo-prof shroud

[Jim Ratto]

Berg made a claim that the original "tall" German fan housing cooled better than all the 36hp-copy shrouds (OK, no doubt), but also better than the Brazilian "low profile" doghouse fan shroud, my questions are, is this true, and by how much and why?
Are we talking cooler oil? Heads? Is it because the setup (Brz) originally used a steel-single-port cooler (though you can use a German alu doghouse cooler in the Brz shroud)?

Thoughts?

[glenn]

I know Jake Raby tested many shrouds and did find one aftermarket 36hp work better than the OEM, but that one is no longer made. I also know he's not tested the Brazilian low profile ones.

I've had good results with a 73 type 181 shroud and am currently using it on a 2180 w/ 9:1 cr. It has all factory tin, thermostat, flaps and oil temps never exceed 205F. There is no secondary oil cooler, just the stock Type 1, 1.5 sump and remote filter. Oil is Brad Penn 10W-30.

[kafercup]

Any other thoughts on this??? 

[Jim Ratto]

Any other thoughts on this??? 

you home already? 

[Jim Ratto]

kafercup and I peered into the guts of a new OEM German shroud (stock on Type 1 1971-74) and a "industrial" low -profile Brazil shroud, and aside from the jacket that surrounds the cooler, and obviously, the shape of the fan housing as a whole, there ain't much different going on inside. The directional vanes within appear to be same dimension and in same locations. The aperture that feeds the oil cooler duct looks identical. We're wondering, does the missing top~6" make a difference in how air is forced over # 3/4 head? I have run these shrouds on motors in the past, but they had no gauges, only one had the Berg tattle-tale stick, which only came on once when brakes locked on one summer day (dad's 2054cc 1959 Transporter w/ red. gears). The other was sheep's viscious little 1914.

[Dave Rosique]

(Not a scientific test) I've run both on my last Baja. Brz Industrial w/ offset cooler VS type I w/ offset cooler (ok- both doghouse). I had gauges and found no difference... On the road, the car ran hotter than hell in the summer (250+f) and did fine any other time of year. Engine: C/W 1776, DP, w-100, dual Zenith's.
Of course a Baja is not exactly aerodynamic, and I drove it like I was mad at it.

~DR.

[Jim Ratto]

 the car ran hotter than hell in the summer (250+f)
~DR.

YIKES

thanks Dave for input, we're not really worried about any small temp advantages one way or the other, just for a glaringly bad deffiency on the Brazil's part... that shroud would make life so much easier than the full sized VW Type 1 shroud, with 48IDAs, etc... and really this is going to be a limited use very high specific output, 'ragged edge' motor, teetering between race and hot street... but not too hot.  
I don't think this motor will be driven through Libya in the high of summer.

[kafercup]

 the car ran hotter than hell in the summer (250+f)
~DR.

YIKES

Wow, it ran that hot with both?

[Dave Rosique]

 the car ran hotter than hell in the summer (250+f)
~DR.

YIKES

Tell me about it!

Anything near 230 freaks me out... After a while I developed a "whatever... if it blows, it blows" attitude but I drove it this way for several years. The same exact engine ended up in a Thing, but I had grown smarter by then and decided not to run gauges

~DR.

[Dave Rosique]

 the car ran hotter than hell in the summer (250+f)
~DR.

YIKES

Wow, it ran that hot with both?

Yep.
In the summer, on the freeway, with me hammering it a bit, the temp would climb steady to 250 or so. I'm sure the fact that it was a Baja, plus I ran a roof rack did not help.

~DR.

[Jim Ratto]

 the car ran hotter than hell in the summer (250+f)
~DR.

YIKES

Tell me about it!

Anything near 230 freaks me out... After a while I developed a "whatever... if it blows, it blows" attitude but I drove it this way for several years. The same exact engine ended up in a Thing, but I had grown smarter by then and decided not to run gauges

~DR.

black tape works wonders too. 

[kafercup]

I'm still leaning toward taking that brazilian lo-profile down to Holleran's and having it prepped (crazy brackets removed).  I'm loving the idea of the additional access room.  That new OEM german shroud may have to go in the rafters for "preservation"

[Jim Ratto]

I'm still leaning toward taking that brazilian lo-profile down to Holleran's and having it prepped (crazy brackets removed).  I'm loving the idea of the additional access room.  That new OEM german shroud may have to go in the rafters for "preservation"

when you pay Holleran a visit, you should bring your A1 stainless sidewinder.... just have it in the van, casually move it out of the way,[insert Jerry accent] "goddam header in my way... got all this crap piled ontop of everything....!"  and watch John's eyes light up.... help spread the disease. We got to get him to build that oval. 

[OgCalLook]

A friend of mine has a 2332, Fk-89, 11.25 to 1, wedge ports, 3.5 sump, zero deck, .050" copper gasket, and a 181 shroud.
He beats on it pretty hard, and it runs cool. Stock doghouse cooler and a remote cooler w/180 thermostat fan, and it doesn't come on very much.
He switch to the Brazilian short shroud (puma) OEM from CB Performance, and still runs cool.
Were at 5280 elevation and he runs perfume gas, up here we can run a little more compression.
I'm currently building a Little 1914 ripper and I'm gonna run a short shroud, I'll let you guys know.
IHMO the factory spent millions on cooling system R&D, so I'm sticking with all OEM shrouds and tins.

[Rennsurfer]

IHMO the factory spent millions on cooling system R&D, so I'm sticking with all OEM shrouds and tins.

Bingo! Right you are, Tom.