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Author Topic: The 4" Bore Thread  (Read 256210 times)
Type1/DVK
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Posts: 315



« Reply #390 on: January 07, 2013, 22:46:05 pm »

Keep that good info and updates coming! loving it! Grin
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DDD#8 - 14.74sec @ 1776cc - Member of:  DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers  - www.ultimatevw.nl - and racing engines
Martin Greaves
Hero Member
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Posts: 1740


10.88@128.58


« Reply #391 on: January 07, 2013, 23:10:55 pm »

I just went onto Wikipedia, now I know this site is not gospel but I put in head porting to see what came up.

It's worth a read.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_head_porting
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Hahaha your killing me.........
andy198712
Hero Member
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Posts: 1063



« Reply #392 on: January 08, 2013, 15:42:31 pm »

i think i'm going to DFL coat my intake ports and manifolds.... i'll fill in later why it helps when i get chance...
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TexasTom
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12.58@106, 7.89@89 Texas Motorplex 10/18/09


« Reply #393 on: January 08, 2013, 19:23:00 pm »

Same reason, I would suspect, velocity stacks are sometimes Teflon coated?

SLIPPERY!  Wink
TxT
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Work, work, WORK!

Modesty accepted here ...
andy198712
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Posts: 1063



« Reply #394 on: January 08, 2013, 20:55:38 pm »

Well... apparently...quoting my info on coatings i got from Techline....

coating an intake manifold with a DFL also know as "fluid retaining" coatings... the coating will have a tendency to create a small amount of boundary layer turbulence which will reduce fuel drop out.... so it says
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TexasTom
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12.58@106, 7.89@89 Texas Motorplex 10/18/09


« Reply #395 on: January 09, 2013, 01:21:39 am »

The Teflon coating I've seen have the characteristics to produce that effect.
The coating or abrased port surface, I've been told, acts as ball bearings to the air flow ... small disturbance at the wall's surface acts as rollers for the main charge to run over ... kinda like hydroplaning, almost. Makes sense to me.

Alternatively, I've often wondered the potential positive affects of polishing the combustion chamber as it carbons up rather quickly, perhaps an excellently polished surface would be beneficial there?

TxT
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Work, work, WORK!

Modesty accepted here ...
dangerous
Sr. Member
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Posts: 270


« Reply #396 on: January 09, 2013, 06:32:21 am »

Without detracting from this excellent topic....
I would be surprised if there are really any measurable negatives from Mexx's polished ports,
other than the time it takes.

I too read somewhere about all the percieved problems with polished ports,
but I know that I can measure, and feel, the difference
between a rotary-burr-finish and that of a sanding roll. 

You have to be careful/sceptical of any data that is sourced from companies that sell products and services.

I think there is a lot of old wives tails and theorys that are out there,
and in the old days it was false representation in the magazine and text book media,
but these days it is the internet as well.
 
More often than not, the beneficiary is a company/individual because
it may be worth a sale,
mean less work for them,
or simply to give their opposition some misdirection.

I'll bet not many people have done a real VALID comparison with the "polished port".
My guess is that it MAY BE? worth something in the power stakes,
but not a good return on the investment of both time and dollars
for both the porter, nor the customer.

...and besides any valid comparison must have a unit of measure,
so is worthless without some measure of the surface finish
at which the benefits can be measured and compared.

Among other areas of interest regarding beneficial pipe dreams are :

bore hone patterns can only be done on one brand of machine
valve jobs ditto
cast iron barrels are no good
long rods are better
short rods are better
porsche shrouds are no good
all oils/additives except mine will cause engine/trans  failure.
cryogenics produces measurable benefits.
line boring will make your engine blow up
coatings are worth the money
and I could go on.

Yes, some of these things CAN be beneficial and some not.

With some logic and common sense, you would have to agree that
accurate and precise machine work,
and meticulous preparation,
and good tuning
are always more of a winner than
some perceived magic pill delivered by a witch doctor.

Most will probably totally miss the point i am trying to make,
I I guess that is my own fault for breaking another golden rule:
I can "complicate simple things."
 Roll Eyes
 
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LGK
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Posts: 142



WWW
« Reply #397 on: January 09, 2013, 08:43:45 am »

I totally agree with David,it's so true but like you said,most will mis your point willing to make Wink

Anyway Mexx did a hell of a job on his entire build,nice to have a chat with you at Dday Mexx!(was in front of your car where you wasn't allowed to set your pit ;)sorry for that Wink

Steve Aka FAST SCRAP
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John Maher
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Posts: 140



WWW
« Reply #398 on: January 09, 2013, 11:33:48 am »


With some logic and common sense, you would have to agree that
accurate and precise machine work,
and meticulous preparation,
and good tuning
are always more of a winner than
some perceived magic pill delivered by a witch doctor.


Spot on!

Taking one element of an engine build out of context and concentrating on it to the exclusion of everything else is NOT going to deliver a whole heap of extra horsepower. Regarding the recent discussion on port wall finish... choosing rough over smooth isn't going to make or break the engine. The dimensions and shape of the port, along with the valve job and chamber design are responsible for 99.9% of how the head will perform. If you haven't got the basics right, no amount of shine or hi-tech coating will disguise the fact you just wasted time and money polishing a turd.

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John Maher

Stripped66
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Posts: 131


« Reply #399 on: January 10, 2013, 02:24:47 am »

First WBX with an oilsump :-) I like it but a lot of work

Udo




IMO, a dry-sump is much easier. I wonder, after all the welding, milling, drilling and tapping, whether a dry-sump is cheaper, too...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 02:58:49 am by Stripped66 » Logged
Udo
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Posts: 2077



« Reply #400 on: January 10, 2013, 07:54:22 am »

I welded and cut an original hole and 1,5 Berg sump

Udo
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dangerous
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Posts: 270


« Reply #401 on: January 10, 2013, 10:58:27 am »

I welded and cut an original hole and 1,5 Berg sump

Udo

That is how I did my first one in 1996, but with a 4 lt sump.
My engine was a 92 bore with 90 stroke.
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Shag55
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Shag Leone, SL-1racing


« Reply #402 on: January 10, 2013, 23:10:25 pm »

Almost square!
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325hp and 290# torque @17psi on 91 pump
383hp and 324# torque @23psi on 50/50 mix
Shag55.sl1racing@gmail.com
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58vw
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Posts: 520



« Reply #403 on: January 10, 2013, 23:18:50 pm »

ha ha
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www.4inbore.com
Angleflows...order them now
BeetleBug
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Posts: 2836


Snabba grabben...


« Reply #404 on: January 22, 2013, 09:50:45 am »

Interesting picture and statement:



I know very rough works , i'm at probably 15+ engines so far in my tests and all 15+ have gained , its been 100% so far. Its ugly, but it makes HP!

-BB-
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
Frallan
Hero Member
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Posts: 933



« Reply #405 on: January 22, 2013, 12:10:47 pm »

Not ugly.
I love it!

How is that "uniformity" done?  (cannot think of another word right now)
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richie
Hero Member
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Posts: 5687



« Reply #406 on: January 22, 2013, 13:00:22 pm »

Interesting picture and statement:



I know very rough works , i'm at probably 15+ engines so far in my tests and all 15+ have gained , its been 100% so far. Its ugly, but it makes HP!

-BB-

that is amazing work,I am not sure many of us need to go to that extreme,the hours in it proberly wouldn't justify its cost


cheers richie
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Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!   


Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink
andy198712
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Posts: 1063



« Reply #407 on: January 22, 2013, 13:55:08 pm »

looks like snake skin....or golf ball
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Shag55
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Shag Leone, SL-1racing


« Reply #408 on: January 22, 2013, 16:41:42 pm »

Think I seen that on Yellow Bullet. CNC programed
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325hp and 290# torque @17psi on 91 pump
383hp and 324# torque @23psi on 50/50 mix
Shag55.sl1racing@gmail.com
Facebook at SL 1 racing
Type1/DVK
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 315



« Reply #409 on: January 22, 2013, 20:58:35 pm »

Done on this machine http://www.rottlermfg.com/cylinder-head-shop-machine.php?model=P69   wicked looking finish, search for dimples intake on google and many more intake results pop up. Some interesting approches some guys have...

Rottler 5axis has some other tricks:
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 21:00:45 pm by Type1/DVK » Logged

DDD#8 - 14.74sec @ 1776cc - Member of:  DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers  - www.ultimatevw.nl - and racing engines
58vw
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Posts: 520



« Reply #410 on: January 22, 2013, 23:32:24 pm »

cnc
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www.4inbore.com
Angleflows...order them now
Shag55
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Shag Leone, SL-1racing


« Reply #411 on: January 23, 2013, 16:30:56 pm »

cnc
nice! Just needs a little more gasket surface area.
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325hp and 290# torque @17psi on 91 pump
383hp and 324# torque @23psi on 50/50 mix
Shag55.sl1racing@gmail.com
Facebook at SL 1 racing
Mike Lawless
Sr. Member
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Posts: 386



WWW
« Reply #412 on: January 25, 2013, 20:40:12 pm »

A little V8 world perspective on polished ports....
Back in the day, I knew a NHRA comp eliminator racer. These racers are known for extracting every last ounce of performance out of any given combination. While doing between round maintenance, he explained why they had highly polished chambers and exhaust ports. It was so any carbon wouldn't stick and it made for easy cleanup. A squirt with chem-tool and followed by WD40 would easily clean any trace of residue with a simple wipe-job.

The intake ports were left unpolished.

He wasn't above giving a customer  "ported & polished" heads because they had seen it in a magazine, so it had to be the way to go! It was so purdy!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 20:44:18 pm by Mike Lawless » Logged

Winner, 2009 Bakersfield March Meet
2006 PRA Super Gas Champion
2002-2003 DRKC Champion
http://www.lawlessdesigns.com
TiDi
Sr. Member
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Posts: 289



« Reply #413 on: January 28, 2013, 14:34:46 pm »

http://www.brighthubengineering.com/hydraulics-civil-engineering/58569-how-golf-ball-dimples-reduce-air-resistance/
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4 Wheel Ripperz - http://cal-look.tumblr.com/
MeXX
Hero Member
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Posts: 526


World record holder 8.733 @ 255.658


« Reply #414 on: February 08, 2013, 22:23:32 pm »

Hi to all the 4inchers

Here's another version of my 4 inch race engines

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
New billet Cylinders

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Billet Cylinders for Autolinea case

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Modified Autolinea case

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Modified Autolinea case

MeXX
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Drag or Die
MeXX
Hero Member
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Posts: 526


World record holder 8.733 @ 255.658


« Reply #415 on: February 08, 2013, 22:28:12 pm »


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Drag or Die
MeXX
Hero Member
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Posts: 526


World record holder 8.733 @ 255.658


« Reply #416 on: February 08, 2013, 22:32:00 pm »

Here's the second version with a Autocraft case

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

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So long MeXX
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Drag or Die
Frallan
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Posts: 933



« Reply #417 on: February 08, 2013, 23:04:19 pm »

BIG thumb arriba!!!
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Andy Sykes
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Posts: 1203



« Reply #418 on: February 08, 2013, 23:07:11 pm »

Awesome you are one clever dude meXX Smiley
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I love the haters they make me famous.

im building this not just putting parts together, they are two totally different things

Your only here once turn it up to 11
Tobi/DFL
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Posts: 445



« Reply #419 on: February 08, 2013, 23:11:02 pm »

Wow! Impressive stuff, MeXX!!! Shocked

Tobi
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