1300 Mouse Motor / Performance Clutch Questions

[OldSpeed]

I'm on the hunt for a performance 180mm clutch pressure plate for my 1300 mouse motor as I would like to keep the stock flywheel as it can apparently be machined to be lighter than an equivalent 200mm wheel.

I have been informed that these used to be available but you can't get them from mainstream parts suppliers.

I've also been told that a "9 spring 180mm transporter clutch" would be a good upgrade too but I have no idea where you would find one of these today.

Basic engine specification is as follows:

1300 (69x77)
Engle 100 Cam
Stock twin port heads mildly ported.
Full flow with CB Performance oil pump.
1.25:1 Ratio rockers.
Reece Fish carburettor and 4 into 1 exhaust system (or modified stock).
Rotating components fully balanced.
Connecting rods, pistons etc match weighted.

Hopefully looking to make about 70bhp when finished. Would even a stock 180mm clutch cope with the above?

If anyone can help with sourcing the above upgraded 180mm clutch parts I'd be very grateful. That is if you think they are up to the job of course!

Thanks!

 

[mymedusa]

how mich fish do you have? 1 or 2?
70hp with this cam,...NO. with this setup the stock clutch and pressure plate will be good.
wenn the engine really make about 70 hp then the 9 spring pressure plate is perfekt. i use it in my 30ps engine and its a good plate. you also can find it when searching porsche 356 plates...the 9 spring plate is the  1,6 75ps std. pressure plate.
be happy when it get about 60 hp.

[OldSpeed]

how mich fish do you have? 1 or 2?
70hp with this cam,...NO. with this setup the stock clutch and pressure plate will be good.
wenn the engine really make about 70 hp then the 9 spring pressure plate is perfekt. i use it in my 30ps engine and its a good plate. you also can find it when searching porsche 356 plates...the 9 spring plate is the  1,6 75ps std. pressure plate.
be happy when it get about 60 hp.

Thanks for the tips.

Just the one Fish for now. How would you suggest improving the engine for increased power output then? Is there a better choice of cam? I would like to keep the engine nice and torquey at low revs you see as its going in a street / road rally car.

I had originally decided to keep the cam mild in case to allow me to do a turbo conversion similar to the type put together by Minnow Fish Carburretors in Scotland in the 1970s but since then I have decided I would rather stay N/A to keep things simple.

I have also considered using 1500 pistons and cylinders and having the cylinder tops machined down to fit the 1300 twin port heads as this was a popular period modification in the UK for motorsport in the 1970s as this would release a few extra HP.

EDIT: Also, you wouldn't happen to have a part number for the 9 spring pressure plate?

Thanks!

[Steve DKK]

I do have a question.  Lightened flywheels are great for no load reving but back in the day, there were drag racers using the additional weight of 180mm flywheels for a better launch.

[Torben Alstrup]

Hello.
For a set up like that you will most likely not make much torque. So a regular pp with a Bugpack "super disc" should hold it. When I make these engines, I use a pp from a 1200 cc Opel Kadett. It is same size and is diapragm instead, so it holds 10-15% more torque. I do have 180 mm Stage 1 PP´s but it is not needed here.

I agree on the hp estimate being a little high. Usually a set up like that, but with 2 32 mm Solex (type 3) carbs, dual port heads, stock 1,1 rockers,  8,5 CR and a 1 3/8" header makes about 63-64 hp and 100 NM torque. More detail to the heads, more CR and a slightly different cam can make 70 hp with the same carbs. But that´s about it, unless ypou begin to modify them.

A lightened 180 mm. flywheel works well on an engine like that. But dont go to the extremes if you want to drive it on the street. 1 max 1,6 kg is good, and makes for a more "fresh" engine without hurting off idle power too much.

Hope this helps.
T

[OldSpeed]

Hello.
For a set up like that you will most likely not make much torque. So a regular pp with a Bugpack "super disc" should hold it. When I make these engines, I use a pp from a 1200 cc Opel Kadett. It is same size and is diapragm instead, so it holds 10-15% more torque. I do have 180 mm Stage 1 PP´s but it is not needed here.

I agree on the hp estimate being a little high. Usually a set up like that, but with 2 32 mm Solex (type 3) carbs, dual port heads, stock 1,1 rockers,  8,5 CR and a 1 3/8" header makes about 63-64 hp and 100 NM torque. More detail to the heads, more CR and a slightly different cam can make 70 hp with the same carbs. But that´s about it, unless ypou begin to modify them.

A lightened 180 mm. flywheel works well on an engine like that. But dont go to the extremes if you want to drive it on the street. 1 max 1,6 kg is good, and makes for a more "fresh" engine without hurting off idle power too much.

Hope this helps.
T

Thanks for the advice Torben. 

I don't suppose you would happen to know the years / part numbers of Opel clutches that fit?
Only its hard to find them out here as in the UK we had Astras rather than Kadetts.

Hmm. I might have to rethink things a little to make my 70hp target. I don't want to go 1600 as my 1300 heads are in good condition and I like a challenge. I might consider using 82mm (1500) pistons with the barrel tops machined down to fit inside the 1300 heads with a flycut to raise the compression a little.

[Torben Alstrup]

I dont recall the number off hand, but if you order it by CSP you should menthion in the message box that you need a 180 mm diapragm, and they´ll take care of you. Or talk to Johannes Sagner, he will know.

As for hitting 70 hp you need to pay a lot of attention to the intake valve, guide and seat. Do not increase the port size, ONLY a straighten up. Flycut for 9 - 1 CR. (Needs 98 oktane fuel) If you have some used parts to choose from, you can make a 34 mm type 3 carb out of a throttle body from a set of 34 mm. carbs from a CJ type 4 and pair them with the 32 mm´s top parts. Then you can take the 26 mm venturi and jets too from the type 4 carb. That way you can release a few more ponies in the mid to upper rpm band of the engine.
If youre up to it, I have a Split cam that could help you get there too. Not an Engle though 
Pm me if youre interested.
T

[OldSpeed]

I dont recall the number off hand, but if you order it by CSP you should menthion in the message box that you need a 180 mm diapragm, and they´ll take care of you. Or talk to Johannes Sagner, he will know.

As for hitting 70 hp you need to pay a lot of attention to the intake valve, guide and seat. Do not increase the port size, ONLY a straighten up. Flycut for 9 - 1 CR. (Needs 98 oktane fuel) If you have some used parts to choose from, you can make a 34 mm type 3 carb out of a throttle body from a set of 34 mm. carbs from a CJ type 4 and pair them with the 32 mm´s top parts. Then you can take the 26 mm venturi and jets too from the type 4 carb. That way you can release a few more ponies in the mid to upper rpm band of the engine.
If youre up to it, I have a Split cam that could help you get there too. Not an Engle though 
Pm me if youre interested.
T

Thanks again for the tips.

 I will get in touch with CSP. 

If I do go up to 1493cc some have said I could consider upgrading to Weber 36 IDFs or Dell 36 DRLAs which should work well if choked and jetted appropriately. Anyway, there is plenty of time for that when I have got the block together and running!

Will have a think about the split cam thanks.

[Torben Alstrup]

36 dual carbs work well on even a 1200 cc. when choked and jetted correct. I´ve done that many times in the past. (Then 70 hp is suddenly easy obtainable.)
T