Five-point harness, no cage...

[bugnut68]

How can one utilize a five-point harness without a roll cage?  Is it possible to use stock seat belt points and have the harness maintain its effectiveness or is a cage necessary?

[neil68]

I don't have a roll cage, but I do have the RLR 5-point roll bar with a 5-point RCI harness.  Two shoulder straps loop around the crossbar (behind the low-back seat), the two lap straps use the stock lower mount holes (door jamb and tunnel) and I had to drill one hole to add the crotch strap (I used the front floor seat rail).  Passed tech at three race tracks so far...

I guess if you wanted to race with no roll bar, then the two shoulder straps could be tied into the rear seat lap belt holes...I've seen that a few times.

[bugnut68]

I don't have a roll cage, but I do have the RLR 5-point roll bar with a 5-point RCI harness.  Two shoulder straps loop around the crossbar (behind the low-back seat), the two lap straps use the stock lower mount holes (door jamb and tunnel) and I had to drill one hole to add the crotch strap (I used the front floor seat rail).  Passed tech at three race tracks so far...

I guess if you wanted to race with no roll bar, then the two shoulder straps could be tied into the rear seat lap belt holes...I've seen that a few times.

Was just curious... I won't have the need for a roll bar or cage anytime soon in this car... my buddy Jason Wicklund (RIP) had a pretty sweet '73 that had a five point harness on the drivers seat, but I never got a good look at how he fastened it or anything.

[bugnut68]

As an update, upon further research, I'd read on another forum that the shoulder straps shouldn't be more than 15 degrees below the shoulders of the driver/passenger, whichever seat you're talking about.  Not sure about the validity of this, as this is new territory for me?  I just want to try and implement a better safety belt option than the 40 year old original seat belts I currently have.

[Gary Justus]

What's wrong with lap belts? You won't need anything more. I used Crow for years in my '64. Then went to RCI when I had to update for racing. They come in two styles depending on if you're bolting them or using the stock eyelets. Crow will even make exactly the length you need.

[bugnut68]

What's wrong with lap belts? You won't need anything more. I used Crow for years in my '64. Then went to RCI when I had to update for racing. They come in two styles depending on if you're bolting them or using the stock eyelets. Crow will even make exactly the length you need.

I reckon that would probably suffice for my purposes.  They'd be going into a '70 Bug with highback seats, street and occasional bracket racer (local 1/8th mile).  I like the added security of a harness, but not sure it's necessary until I get at least a decent roll bar installed.

[Gary Justus]

How fast do you think you're going to be? I WAS running Super-Mod (12.90) and Q-32 with the '64 and the lap belt passed tech. Another thing to consider; even though these "high-tech" 3" safety restraints are good for racing, you CAN get a ticket on the street because they are not DOT. Probably wouldn't happen, but.

[bugnut68]

How fast do you think you're going to be? I WAS running Super-Mod (12.90) and Q-32 with the '64 and the lap belt passed tech. Another thing to consider; even though these "high-tech" 3" safety restraints are good for racing, you CAN get a ticket on the street because they are not DOT. Probably wouldn't happen, but.

It's hard to say for sure, but my goal is high 8s in the 1/8 mile here in Lakeview, Oregon, which is at 4,800 feet in altitude.  I think that amounts to 14's in the quarter.  I definitely don't have any aspirations of breaking 11's or even 12's anytime soon, FWIW.

[Gabetion2000]

It is dangerous to run a five point or four point without a cage. Reason is because, if you roll the car, the roof will colapse on your head and neck and not the roll cage. If you are secured in the seat firmly, you are going to be killed. If you have a simple lap belt, and you roll the car, the roof will colapse, but your body is not secured to the seat, leaving you (some) room to move.  I was going to do the same thing you are doing, but did some research and learned it was unsafe.

[bugnut68]

It is dangerous to run a five point or four point without a cage. Reason is because, if you roll the car, the roof will colapse on your head and neck and not the roll cage. If you are secured in the seat firmly, you are going to be killed. If you have a simple lap belt, and you roll the car, the roof will colapse, but your body is not secured to the seat, leaving you (some) room to move.  I was going to do the same thing you are doing, but did some research and learned it was unsafe.

Yeah, I'm going to go with quality lap belt instead, I've decided.  As the car will still see street time, probably for both seats, ultimately though it's rare I have passengers. 
With the new 2017 forthcoming, I probably ought to consider new axles and CV joints, as the ones currently on there appear to be, well, ancient at best.  I wouldn't want to see what happens when one of those breaks at speed.  Luckily, I've got all of winter ahead of me to scrimp my pennies and dimes.  Lol.