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johnl
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« on: January 28, 2012, 18:22:55 pm » |
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http://www.bergmannvw.net/ Trying to get educated here. Why do I not see more of this type of fan housing used on street cars? Do they really cool better and is it the cost that keeps people from using them. Also it looks light it might be easier to remove and install the engine in a sedan and also to remove and install the carbs.
Thanks in advance for your opinions.................
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Volkswagens Limited, Der Kleiner Panzers Founder Member
Celebrating 60 years of Volkswagens in my life 1963-2023
Life is a learning experience and then you die but when you do you've lived a good life if you contributed to your fellow man.
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glenn
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 18:48:26 pm » |
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The 911 style shroud actually over cool 2 cylinder and under cool the other 2. Jake Raby has done testing and found the difference in cylinder temps to be beyond acceptable limits.
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 19:39:00 pm » |
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We get enough people asking if that's a "Porsh" engine, don't need it looking the part!  |
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
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Sam K
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 19:46:53 pm » |
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I've worked on a few bugs that had them and I didn't like them. It is easier to work on the carbs, but I didn't like losing the stock oil cooler. In addition I am not impressed with the fit and finish of them and it seems like you need standoffs on some cars which is not acceptable.
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DKK Ted
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 19:53:42 pm » |
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AND, it's just not Cal-Look. Ted |
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 VW Classic 2012 |
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BeetleBug
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2012, 21:02:27 pm » |
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The main reason is the look.  The real reason should be the cooling effect. To make these fan houses work better than the average Tupperware plastic fantastic thing you need to make venturi channels to guide the air to all the cylinders. Cheers, Kalle |
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
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bugnut68
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 21:21:46 pm » |
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I hear mighty questionable things about anything Bernie Bergmann... but Zach beat me to the punch on my original response! lol
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58vw
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2012, 22:55:07 pm » |
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i like because the ease of getting to stuff....and in and out of car...but to much money for me...ill stick to the 36 horse
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neil68
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« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2012, 00:54:35 am » |
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The Porsche fan cooling systems really are more suitable for Type 4 engines that are being converted to upright cooling.
For Type 1 engines, it's hard to beat the OEM doghouse FI system for cooling, IME.
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drgouk
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« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2012, 08:29:32 am » |
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Don pauter has got his to work pretty good, And what its cooling, was'nt designed to keep cool on pump gas.
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BeetleBug
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« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2012, 08:36:15 am » |
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Thats the way to do it, thanks for sharing.
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
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glenn
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« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2012, 14:01:40 pm » |
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It still looks like just an empty housing.  |
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Stripped66
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« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2012, 07:06:36 am » |
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It still looks like just an empty housing.
It is empty, but the inside of the shroud is not uniform, and the contours may affect pressure and aid the distribution of air in the absence of vanes. Another view of the frontside:  Here's the backside of the shroud:  Both the front and back views show that the volume above and surrounding the cylinders/heads has been minimized, and the shroud would appear to divert air towards the center of the cylinder/heads, and towards the exhaust ports. This is in stark contrast to the Bergmann shroud which has large, cavernous volumes above the heads/cylinders, and no mechanism whatsoever to divert/control/manipulate airflow. There are a few Type 4 shrouds that have taken a similar approach (the Klaus shroud comes to mind, as I'm sure Neil is familiar) to manipulate plenum volume in critical areas to control pressure and airflow. IMO, much can be done with the design of the shroud and its volume to equalize pressure and airflow. If you play around with adding internal vanes to the Bergmann shroud, you will see that a lot of the battle is trying to divert airflow away from regions of the shroud that otherwise could have benefited from reduced volume, much like the shroud above. I believe this is a giant step in the right direction and would have much rather started with this shroud than the Bergmann shroud I have been playing with for the past year or so. |
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« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 07:19:10 am by Stripped66 »
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Worm
DKK
Hero Member
Posts: 762
Whose stupid idea was that?
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« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2012, 15:29:09 pm » |
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Fugly....
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  "Pretending to know everything closes the door on whats really there" |
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bugnut68
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« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2012, 17:47:15 pm » |
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I loved Bergman''s ads from the '80s with his engines that utilized the angle-cut shroud and an external (Rapid-Cool style) oil cooler fastened over the fan inlet... |
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Stripped66
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« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2012, 18:18:00 pm » |
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Fugly....
Yeah, but I don't look at my engine when I drive. |
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BeetleBug
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« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2012, 18:26:08 pm » |
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Stripped66, What is the total cost for the system incl everything? I like the extra room behind the fan house. |
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
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Stripped66
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« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2012, 18:36:56 pm » |
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Stripped66, What is the total cost for the system incl everything? I like the extra room behind the fan house. I have no idea. I have a POS Bergmann shroud, but I really like what I see in that Kaefer shroud. Oh, found this: http://kaefer.motor-sport-service.de/html/kuhlsysteme_4.html |
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« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 18:50:18 pm by Stripped66 »
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56BLITZ
DKK
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« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2012, 19:23:19 pm » |
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...but to much money for me... Really? It's ONLY $1,100 plus shipping!!! You are right. . . that money could be put to better use . . . for just about anything! |
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Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador!
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cassa
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« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2012, 19:38:44 pm » |
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Stripped66, What is the total cost for the system incl everything? I like the extra room behind the fan house. Kalle, I`m working on a new shroud, the plug is almost ready. trying to adress the issues I have seen with the BAS style shrouds. Frees up space for intercoolers....  reg Carsten |
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BeetleBug
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« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2012, 19:40:36 pm » |
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Stripped66, What is the total cost for the system incl everything? I like the extra room behind the fan house. Kalle, I`m working on a new shroud, the plug is almost ready. trying to adress the issues I have seen with the BAS style shrouds. Frees up space for intercoolers.... reg Carsten Pictures please |
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
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cassa
Jr. Member
Posts: 59
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« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2012, 20:12:08 pm » |
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Not mutch to look at right now... The solution looks similar to the MSS shroud. (Didnt know of it before now) but I see that they have some of the same thoughts as I have had during the work of the shroud. Some more bondo and it may look ok.  |
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BeetleBug
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« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2012, 20:31:05 pm » |
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Some more bondo and it may look ok. You can buy A LOT of bondo and spend many hours for € 1550 |
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
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cassa
Jr. Member
Posts: 59
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« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2012, 22:11:39 pm » |
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True. Main reason for me, is that I like making things. Most of the time I regret all the "custom" shit, and wish that I was building a stock 1300ccm |
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Nico86
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« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2012, 17:38:54 pm » |
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I've seen pictures of racing Beetles with a horizontal fan housing and horizontal fan over the engine, and with special belt and pulleys. They say it works great, better than the Porsche style and stock fan, but I don't know if it worth the price and work you'd have to put in it.
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 20:00:53 pm by Nico86 »
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dirk zeyen
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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2012, 18:41:25 pm » |
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back again!!!
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Nico86
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« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2012, 19:59:07 pm » |
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Nico86
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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2012, 19:59:34 pm » |
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