Birth of the quiet-pack muffler

[hotrodsurplus]

The history of the quiet-pack muffler got brought up in Monkiboy's vintage-exhaust thread. None of us could pinpoint exactly when it came out but I have something that's as good as proof: printed publications.

My research indicates that the QP as we know it today showed up in the May/June Hot VWs. It appears in three places: in a Treuhaft ad, in an Auto Haus ad, and in an exhaust story done by THE Jean Calvin. Jean mentioned that Gene Berg also carried an equivalent muffler system.

Judging by the fanfare made of it in these examples the QP was a new release (and a big deal as anyone who fell prey to California's muffler laws can attest). Bear in mind that this issue was likely assembled in possibly January or February '74.

So if you're building a car to faithfully resemble one built in early 1974, now you know that the QP exhaust is period correct.

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[deano]

They were originally Jeep mufflers...

[Dyno-Don]

Dean I had forgotten all about that. In the early 90's I was working for the largest JEEP retailer in the country and when I first saw the MB and M38 mufflers I kept thinking these look awfully familiar, then it dawned on me - but hey, i had been away from VW's for about 15+ years at that point!
I wonder who was the first to try one on a VW?

It's funny that Treuhaft's ad says you can only get them from them, and the Auto Haus ad was in the same issue.

[edcraig]

If my memory is correct, Berg was the first to produce and sell a muffler of this type.  S&S developed their version using the name "QP"...quiet pack, a short time later.

...Ed.

[hotrodsurplus]

If my memory is correct, Berg was the first to produce and sell a muffler of this type.  S&S developed their version using the name "QP"...quiet pack, a short time later.

...Ed.

That may well be the case but if it is it strikes me strange that he didn't advertise it when the others did. He had a running column ad all the while so it wouldn't have really hurt him financially to whip up art and copy. I would imagine that he would've wanted to take the opportunity to beat the others to the punch.

[deano]

No, Berg was NOT the first to offer these mufflers. He may have gotten a lot of credit for his sound testing... but it was Allen Treuhaft that got things rolling. I believe it was him that located a huge lot of these (Jeep) mufflers, and after those were sold off to others, he had them made in Japan. Treuhaft was the source.

[edcraig]

Yeah Dean...I sure can't say you are wrong.  I just remember a bunch of the club guys switching over to them and all came from Berg.  We at Auto Haus felt there was a market for them and pushed S&S to come up with their version.  However the first ones I ever saw were Bergs. 
Part of the memory was that many of the DKP guys ran glass packs with teenie little exhaust pipes to quiet things down.  One day, one of the guys came into the Buena Park Auto-Haus store with this odd looking muffler.  He said it was a jeep muffler that Berg was selling that was quieter and less restrictive than glass packs.  As with all the club trends, once a few guys did something the worked other would start doing the same. 

Like I said, maybe Gene actually wasn't the first, just the first I was aware of. 

...Ed.
 

[deano]

Paul Schley was working at Treuhaft at the time, and told us the story of these mufflers. Next time I see him (probably next week), I will ask him again about the history of these QPs. Sarge was the first guy I recall having one of these mufflers on his first Bug, but there was always questions about possible horsepower loss over a glass pak. I sure thought they were butt-ugly when they first came out!

[IP359]

It's better in color
 

[johnl]

Yeah Dean...I sure can't say you are wrong.  I just remember a bunch of the club guys switching over to them and all came from Berg.  We at Auto Haus felt there was a market for them and pushed S&S to come up with their version.  However the first ones I ever saw were Bergs. 
Part of the memory was that many of the DKP guys ran glass packs with teenie little exhaust pipes to quiet things down.  One day, one of the guys came into the Buena Park Auto-Haus store with this odd looking muffler.  He said it was a jeep muffler that Berg was selling that was quieter and less restrictive than glass packs.  As with all the club trends, once a few guys did something the worked other would start doing the same. 

Like I said, maybe Gene actually wasn't the first, just the first I was aware of. 

...Ed.
 

Ed, as I recall the small tip (in black) on glass packs was done more for the look than noise for the DKP guys.  The idea was to keep the tip as close to the body as possible for that "clean look". 

I do remember when Auto Haus & S&S started offering the QP set up.  The big push then was it was far less restrictive and thus produced more HP.

As I recall Bergs had a better support bracket than the big funky hose clamp.

[Lids]

No, Berg was NOT the first to offer these mufflers. He may have gotten a lot of credit for his sound testing... but it was Allen Treuhaft that got things rolling. I believe it was him that located a huge lot of these (Jeep) mufflers, and after those were sold off to others, he had them made in Japan. Treuhaft was the source.

Deano, did you ever manage to speak to Allen?

[deano]

No, Berg was NOT the first to offer these mufflers. He may have gotten a lot of credit for his sound testing... but it was Allen Treuhaft that got things rolling. I believe it was him that located a huge lot of these (Jeep) mufflers, and after those were sold off to others, he had them made in Japan. Treuhaft was the source.

Deano, did you ever manage to speak to Allen?

Yes, a number of times, but not about this subject...

[Sarge]

For what it's worth, I sold my '63 bug to buy a new 1973 Datsun Pick-Up sometime in late 1972.  It had had a quiet pack muffler on it for some time.  I also remember buying a nicely done merged collector extractor from DDS for our 1969 bug that was made for heater boxes and came with a quiet pack for somewhere around $45-$50 bucks... a large bargain for the amount of work that went into producing them.  Wish I'd saved some receipts to back my feeble memory!

[edcraig]

I do remember calling this style if muffler a Berg muffler when they first became available.  When Auto-Haus brought out the S&S muffler labeled the QP muffler I really didn't care for the name. 
Let's see what Dean hears from Paul.  Working for AH I wasn't real up on truehaft products at the time.  Highly possible that they had one around the time if bergs and maybe even first.  I'm 100% certain the S&S version was not first.

Ed

[51splitDLX]

It's better in color
 

Boy does that NOS QP setup looks sweet in blue

[51splitDLX]

I remember rocking all sorts of different dual quiet pack setups back in the 90's and enjoyed the sounds they made with 48's I kinda remember liking the THUNDERBIRD version the best 

[speedwell]

Ed check that AUTO-HAUS wall 

[johnl]

Ed check that AUTO-HAUS wall 

Better yet Ed, check out all of that dark hair you once had.  My, you've certainly gone "blond"....   

[deano]

And when was the last time you saw a new T-shirt with a pocket? Used to be "SOP"...

[Dyno-Don]

Ed check that AUTO-HAUS wall 

Look at all other cool stuff in that picture. Rapid Cool 4102 Oil coolers were a BIG seller.  Formuling France steering wheels (with the package cut down, we didn't do that at the CM store) the VDO display, The Auto Haus Frisbee's (oops, we had to call them Flying Disc's) Truckin Magazine and VW Trends, so this has to be at least 1976. See that BIG headlight above Eddie's head? That was a Cibie unit originally for a Renault that a friend of mine and I figured out worked really well in Datsun 620 Pickups. We had the first two sets and only a couple more were sold. On the back counter is some Mothers Mag Polish, at the time this was their only product (look how big they are now) and the sales guy used to come in driving a 69 chrome bumper Red Corvette and deliver it right from his car!
Ah, Good Times!

[Rennsurfer]

And when was the last time you saw a new T-shirt with a pocket? Used to be "SOP"...

T-shirt companies still offer 'em that way. When I was working at Victory Wetsuits, ten years ago, I was making shirts on the side using left/front breast pockets. Because the guys in my age group wanted 'em. But you're right; they're hardly seen much these days. Just gotta look for the right vendor(s).

I still have all of my Auto Haus shirts (long and short sleeve that had pockets) that they gave me when I worked there. What a great employer! I'll always be honored to have such wonderful memories of being part of such a nice company.

[Zach Gomulka]

Howard Washington told me (more than once ) that he was partly responsible for the QP while working with Gene. Might be good to hear his side, as well.

[IP359]

I do remember calling this style if muffler a Berg muffler when they first became available.  When Auto-Haus brought out the S&S muffler labeled the QP muffler I really didn't care for the name.  
Let's see what Dean hears from Paul.  Working for AH I wasn't real up on truehaft products at the time.  Highly possible that they had one around the time if bergs and maybe even first.  I'm 100% certain the S&S version was not first.

Ed

Or that wall......
 

[Dave Rosique]

Got my first quiet muffler from Gene Berg in 1973. It was a surplus Jeep muffler stamped 7371000 with center inlet, offset outlet and chrome flare tip. I still run one of those vintage mufflers on my Burro to this day.. I always liked the looks and sound of the Jeep muffler the best, it had a bit of a buzz out the pipe at certain RPM's.
 

[edcraig]

That pictuire of me in the Auto Haus add.  Yikes!

That was Barb, (forget her last name), standing next to me and Walt Johnson across the counter.  We were all AH employees at the time.  The picture was taken by Jere Aldheff in BP store after hours.  I was there only to unlock the store and wasn't planned to be in the photo.  Jere put me into a few shots he took and thats how I ended up in the add.  I had a old faded shirt that day too.

...Ed.

[speedwell]

ED it was Folts ..Barbs Folts   

[volksnut]

ED it was Folts ..Barbs Folts   

She was also the owner of the blue rag top beetle in the Auto Haus ads also...right

[speedwell]

ED it was Folts ..Barbs Folts   

She was also the owner of the blue rag top beetle in the Auto Haus ads also...right

yes

[Frenchy Dehoux]

   I remember in July of 1974 I drove my 56 light blue oval to the North West Bug In in Seattle when I was working for Steve Tims from the Royal Bugee Haus in Bell Garden. I had rebuild my 1641CC with dual 40 P11 and I had installed a so called Jeep muffler and painted it flat black. As soon as we arrived in Kent Washington at the track I had put the car in the Car Show. All day people were asking me why did I install a Jeep muffler on your car we laugh everytime people would ask. I told them that this was the style in Cali on our custom Cal Look. They than asked what is Cal Look the rest is history. I still have one of the original Q P muffler before it was painted and before the chrome tips were installed I never liked the chrome tips they had I would buy the Gene Berg tip as they looked a lot better.

Frenchy

[1946vw]

Frenchy, I was there with my 62 ( i still have it) great times Brian Hyerstay