CSP/JPM Wasp header and Muffler ( Images Wanted)

[modnrod]

Gday Reubs!
 

I'm glad you posted up a proper pic of your hotrod.
See you down there man.
Dave

[vwhelmot]

You really think that the designers would have tried all the popular combinations of rear brake etc before they manufactured. It's stuff like this that lets the industry down a little in my opinion. You shouldn't have to cut your new shiny muffler just because you have rear discs. It really annoys me! 

[leec]

That's what has put me off buying one. You can't run a traction bar, how many hot street bugs use that!

[vwhelmot]

You can run a traction bar if you make one yourself to suit. They are not that nicely finished either. The j tubes are badly dented where they have been clamped in the bending machine too. 

[leec]

I just love the thought of someone cutting into a new silencer and welding a dented piece in to clear a caliper. Thought this exhaust was made to be as efficient as possible. So how is modifying something that's had loads of research and development, to make it fit a car!

[vwhelmot]

Like this. Poor

[vwhelmot]

Shouldn't have to spend time making it like it should be in the first place. Took tig welding to make it better.

[leec]

Nice work, unless the original dents added power 

[vwhelmot]

There is a lot of this kind of substandard quality since I started my build. It's really poor to be honest, it's all sold at top prices and a lot of the time it's crap.

[hotstreetvw]

FYI on those debts

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=azPKIjxmmdU

Now I'm not a advocate of shitty quality or saying it's acceptable. When my son nocked over my S3 wasp megaphone and dinged it I about cried. But knowing it didn't just loose 20hp is refreshing.

The problem with trying to make those fit every combination is it's a enourmous expense and there will be compromises made.  How many disc brake kits are out there?  Is it going to fit my narrowed torsion car, doubtful. The difficult thing is limited US distributors.  If you buy from CSP and it doesn't fit, return shipping is $$$.

[vwhelmot]

Virtually all rear disc set ups use these generic rear calipers so you can't tell me that they shouldn't have tried these combinations before manufacture. All they had to do was make the muffler shorter to suit all combinations. That's just crap.

[neil68]

I'm still reluctant to cut a piece out of the muffler, but this is probably the best long term solution.

I also don't want to bend the clamp area, in order to shift the muffler angle to clear the caliper.  This will disturb the clean flow from the collector into the pipe.

So, for now I think I'll try adding a 2 cm extension to the collector outlet.  With the banjo fitting on the brake line, I just need to have enough clearance to ensure the muffler doesn't vibrate against the caliper bleed nipple during driving/racing.  I'll make this a temporary set-up that can be removed.  I may test on the dyno in the future to see how this affects power.

[hotstreetvw]

Look at CBS site for rear kits.  They offer threee different calipers alone.  Then throw is CSP, Geers, RLR, all the other potential variants.  Short axle, long axle.  I bet it works fine with the CSP kit.  Make the muffler shorter he says, compromise he says, but he still expects the same level of HP and noise reduction.

 

Virtually all rear disc set ups use these generic rear calipers so you can't tell me that they shouldn't have tried these combinations before manufacture. All they had to do was make the muffler shorter to suit all combinations. That's just crap.

[vwhelmot]

Not at all. The muffler is huge, even shortening it an inch and a half would cure it with no performance lost.   You would be pretty pissed if you bought it and it didn't clear your brakes. 
  Have I pissed you off mr hot street with my opinion?

[hotstreetvw]

I'm not pissed, but I think your expectations are too high.  These cars are 40+ years old and with the aftermarket that has existed the number of combinations are endless.  As long as the muffler setup works as advertised with their disc kit, end of story.  You don't buy an Xbox game and try to play it in a sony.

Not at all. The muffler is huge, even shortening it an inch and a half would cure it with no performance lost.   You would be pretty pissed if you bought it and it didn't clear your brakes. 
  Have I pissed you off mr hot street with my opinion?

[vwhelmot]

 
That's bull. I have higher standards than you then. I just expect things to fit and work as they should and on many occasions this is not the case.  I would understand if this system was cheap made in Taiwan but it's not. It's an expensive exhaust and this common combination of rear disc caliper short/long axle whatever should have been tested before being sold. Not everyone has the facilities of tig welding/fabrication to cut chunks out of your new shiny stainless muffler.  All the other rear calipers are smaller i.e. Wilwood, ap racing so it's not difficult to bolt a set of csp/ airkewld which use the same sort it pot metal corrado type rear caliper is it?

[leec]

Agree 100% with above. If it was an empi part (and empi price) it could all be forgiven

[hotstreetvw]

Like they say, opinions are like assholes, well all have one.  We can disagree on this one.  I'll fire up the TIG

[spanners]

OK, now we have to bite the bullit, the only way is to cut the damn box off near the weld and move it 1" nearer the rear apron, worried about the oa length? add it to the tail.pipe but ive learnt it wont matter a hoot.
just move the box rearward and stop worrying. if the exhaust was as critical.as as fook,  F1would have variable length systems, but they dont, only the VW intake Length is critical and no one bothers, they bolt on catalogue generic and go.
only 2 stroke kart motors play with oa system length, dont make a power difference, it only shifts were it starts and finishes.

[neil68]

So, after experimenting and measuring for a few more hours, I chose to add a 3.0 cm extension to the end of the collector and not modify any of the CSP parts.  The deciding factors were:  being able to use the Berg engine support and providing clearance to the caliper bleed nipple.  I could always experiment on the dyno to see if there's any difference from adding the 3 cm extension, as it would be simple to do.

I went to my FLAPS and picked up a 2.5" ID-to-2.5"OD (63.5 mm) connector and cut it down.  The uncut version provided 6.0 cm extension, which was too much, so I worked from there and ended up at 3 cm:



I added a 3 cm tab to hold the extension for now, until I decide whether to clamp or weld it:



I can use the lower stock holes to use Berg support bar (there is room for the rod to move toward the valve cover a bit to prevent contact with the muffler).  A fellow on thesamba from Hawaii showed how a shortened Berg bar will work with the Wasp, so I'll use his method:



The banjo fitting bolts the brake line into the caliper with adequate clearance.  Will have to experiment with brake line position, as it's crowded with the Z-bar, e-brake cable, shock absorber with limiting strap, etc:



The bleed nipple clears the muffler by about 5 mm:

[-Alex-]

It looks like i might get the wasp muffler fit, or not. Possibly ordering it soon.

I do have 944 alloy arms that widen the the track about 43mm, and 4-piston caliper can be repositioned..also looks like 4-piston caliper is slimmer than sliding caliper with e-brake mechanism. In my case, caliper clearance should not be problem as much.






Basically with 205mm tire and 6" wheel  + stock fenders compared to 255 tire and 9" wheel with 6cm wider fenders should have similar inner clearance, perhaps.

[-Alex-]

Well, know i can say it really fits, even if i did just have it test fitted to a chassis. Lots of room with rear arms and 4-piston calipers.

[pupjoint]

old thread , does anyone know what size is the OD of the collector for Wasp Stage 1?

[Olaf A./DFL]

old thread , does anyone know what size is the OD of the collector for Wasp Stage 1?

Info from CSP: That'll be OD 59 mm.

[pupjoint]

old thread , does anyone know what size is the OD of the collector for Wasp Stage 1?

Info from CSP: That'll be OD 59 mm.

thanks!