1799cc Motor for the 53', what do you guys think...

[Frank LUX]

Ok, almost ready to get the build Started....

Here is what the motor will be:

1799cc
DPR 74mm crank Porsche Rod Journals
Carrillo 5'352 Rods
NOS Cima Machine In 88mm Piston&Cylinders
Engle FK-8 Cam
TP Light weight Lifters
Straight Cut Cam Gears
Modified VW Heads 40x35,5, Dual Springs
Berg Oil pump
1.4 ratio Rockers
Berg Style Linkage ( Ex-STDRGN)
Vintage Short Race-Trim Manifolds
Italien 48 IDA's
Don Zig Magneto or Bosch 010
Race-Trim Valve Covers, Breather Box, Oil Sump
Oberg Oil Filter
Vintage NOS Santana Pulley
Vintage 4Tuned 1 5/8 merged Header
Thunderbird Dual T-Bird exhaust

So what ya think...
Nice combo???

Frank

[Zach Gomulka]

I think that is a lot of cam for 1800cc... Even in a larger engine (1915) it is very 'cammy'. I'd opt for something around an FK7 personally.
The short manifolds look cool as hell. But you will hate working on your engine with them!
1 5/8" header is bigger than needed, 1 1/2" would be ideal.

It will run, but you might not like it. Not very strong in the lower rpms.

[Frank LUX]

I think that is a lot of cam for 1800cc... Even in a larger engine (1915) it is very 'cammy'. I'd opt for something around an FK7 personally.
The short manifolds look cool as hell. But you will hate working on your engine with them!
1 5/8" header is bigger than needed, 1 1/2" would be ideal.

It will run, but you might not like it. Not very strong in the lower rpms.

It will get fully reworked Heads and i think they will work great with the FK-8,
as i do think my Engine Builder knows exactly what he does...;-)))

C/R will be around 9,5...

[Zach Gomulka]

I think that is a lot of cam for 1800cc... Even in a larger engine (1915) it is very 'cammy'. I'd opt for something around an FK7 personally.
The short manifolds look cool as hell. But you will hate working on your engine with them!
1 5/8" header is bigger than needed, 1 1/2" would be ideal.

It will run, but you might not like it. Not very strong in the lower rpms.

It will get fully reworked Heads and i think they will work great with the FK-8,
as i do think my Engine Builder knows exactly what he does...;-)))

C/R will be around 9,5...

Then trust your engine builder, no need to second guess him by asking us

[Jeff68]

It sounds like a fun engine build using some proven parts from back in the day (machine in CIMA 88's, Porsche length rods). I like the use of shorter Porsche length rods as I think this will help keep the port velocity higher. I agree that your selection of 1 5/8 exhaust if the heads you have flow lots of air. I thought my 2110 with worked 42 X 37.5 heads and K10 cam needed a 1 5/8 exhaust but it turns out because the heads are capable of flowing well I need a 1 3/4 for the engine to run to its potential. Please post the results and driving impression after you build, tune and drive it. If you remember please post the venture size and jetting you end up using. Best of luck with the build!

[Joel Mohr]

Close to what yours will be, a friend of mine built a 1702 (64 x 92) back in the late 70's. K8, Sig Erson 1.5s, and home made 42 x 37 heads with IDAs..it made 160...full dress Ghia ran high 13s...and he drove it from Reno to SoCal probably a dozen times...I'm building a 65 x 90.5 (1672) with my turbo kit, and I hope to make 200 on pump gas....

[Frank LUX]

Close to what yours will be, a friend of mine built a 1702 (64 x 92) back in the late 70's. K8, Sig Erson 1.5s, and home made 42 x 37 heads with IDAs..it made 160...full dress Ghia ran high 13s...and he drove it from Reno to SoCal probably a dozen times...I'm building a 65 x 90.5 (1672) with my turbo kit, and I hope to make 200 on pump gas....

Sounds great!!!! So no concerns about the Cam???

Frank

[Frank LUX]

It sounds like a fun engine build using some proven parts from back in the day (machine in CIMA 88's, Porsche length rods). I like the use of shorter Porsche length rods as I think this will help keep the port velocity higher. I agree that your selection of 1 5/8 exhaust if the heads you have flow lots of air. I thought my 2110 with worked 42 X 37.5 heads and K10 cam needed a 1 5/8 exhaust but it turns out because the heads are capable of flowing well I need a 1 3/4 for the engine to run to its potential. Please post the results and driving impression after you build, tune and drive it. If you remember please post the venture size and jetting you end up using. Best of luck with the build!

Thanxs, will do!!!!

Frank

[Udo]

K8 sounds good :-)
Depends on the heads ..
Udo

[Frank LUX]

K8 sounds good :-)
Depends on the heads ..
Udo

Well,it's up to you then.....!!!! You're the builder of this....!!!!!

Frank

[Martin S.]

Deck height?

[Jim Ratto]

K8 will run smooth from 2000rpm to 6800 or so. If you're going close gears and are going to run good European fuel, go K10 and run 9.8:1-10.0:1
We have used K10 in similar engines, runs very well on street for hot rod. Strong just under 3000 and potent to 7500

Have fun

Jim

[Udo]

Before K10 i would go with a pauter :-)   

Udo

[Jim Ratto]

Before K10 i would go with a pauter :-)   

Udo

Now you're talking

R6E8

[Udo]

Yes a good idea Jim . And if Frank wants old school i must take original heads and relocate spark plug holes and weld the intakes :-)

I now use the AA head castings - look good . and i got a set of complete bare

Udo

[Frank LUX]

Yes a good idea Jim . And if Frank wants old school i must take original heads and relocate spark plug holes and weld the intakes :-)

I now use the AA head castings - look good . and i got a set of complete bare

Udo

Old School it has to be....!!!!  thanxs Udo!!!

Frank

[nicolas]

it really surprises me how so many ideas actaully start out with the 'good old K8 cam', and for good reason i think. But… as soon as it is mentioned someone comes up with a different 'better' cam.
IMHO the FK8 is a great, old-school (as it has been around for ages), no frills, does-what-it-needs-to-do cam

be it noted that i am not trying to discuss what either Jim or Udo are suggesting isn't better, but the FK8 is a great cam and could need a little bit more love 

[Udo]

With good ported heads it is a very nice cam - and since Frank wants old school we must use it :-)
Or does someone know how old are those pauter cams , are they old school ? :-)
Udo

[Frank LUX]

With good ported heads it is a very nice cam - and since Frank wants old school we must use it :-)
Or does someone know how old are those pauter cams , are they old school ? :-)
Udo

Udo, Install a Cam in there that fits best with the Heads...!!!

Does not matter if Engle or Pauter...!!!

I want a Motor that runs strong but needs to be Street friendly... FK-8, FK-10 or Pauter... Up to you!!!

Frank

[Martin S.]

Lumpy idle (overlap) is old school. It's all about the sound.

[cedric]

I run now a fat cam fc 430.. Nobody looks a that,also a great cam..look a lot like pauter and fk-8

[nicolas]

With good ported heads it is a very nice cam - and since Frank wants old school we must use it :-)
Or does someone know how old are those pauter cams , are they old school ? :-)
Udo

pauter cams aren't that the newest thing? 

and what Frank said, it really is up to you, since you are seemingly building the engine. keep us posted.

[Jim Ratto]

Yes a good idea Jim . And if Frank wants old school i must take original heads and relocate spark plug holes and weld the intakes :-)

I now use the AA head castings - look good . and i got a set of complete bare

Udo

The R6E8 is the best street cam I have ever used. Crisper throttle response and stronger off idle than 86C and runs as well in high rpm. I used it with 1.25

[Frank LUX]

The Cam Wars... Starting to like this!!!!

Frank

[Matt Tobias]

For my 2276 I decided on the 86C on 105 LC because I wanted the power the 86C is known for, but wanted to move it down in the power range a bit. 

[Jim Ratto]

The Cam Wars... Starting to like this!!!!

Frank

Hi Frank,
I think you will find the K8 is actually really forgiving, and streetable in that cc engine. I've run the K8 and 86B in same cc engines, with ported 40 x  35.5 and 42 x 37 heads and they ran silky smooth from very low down in rpm to 6800-7000. I preferred the 86B, but it may have come down to Engle cams are ground like 3.5 deg advanced, Web 86B is straight. (depending on how you time them of course).
The K8 is a good solid street cam, perfect for mid-cc engines 1776-2000cc. Of course, the smaller the cc, the hotter tempered it will be. In terms of numbers, it's not quite an Engle 125.

I think, if you want the engine to have a bad attitude, and be romper-stomper down low and howl up top, you'll need more cam than the K8. An Engle 130 or 140 would be the obvious "old school" approach. I have not used the R6E8 in a mid-cc size engine, but I did help someone once use and tune a 1776 with Web 121. Look at that cam. It's similar to R6E8. My 94 x 78 ran best, no question about it, with the R6E8. The 86C is more ragged and doesn't offer more up top, in my engine.
The R6E8 from my notes was 271' @ 0.050", 306' @ seat and with Scat 1.25, made 0.530" lift. But the numbers don't begin to explain how well it ran.
Next time I freshen the bottom end, the 86C will be replaced with the R6

[Matt Tobias]

My 94 x 78 ran best, no question about it, with the R6E8. The 86C is more ragged and doesn't offer more up top, in my engine.
The R6E8 from my notes was 271' @ 0.050", 306' @ seat and with Scat 1.25, made 0.530" lift. But the numbers don't begin to explain how well it ran.
Next time I freshen the bottom end, the 86C will be replaced with the R6

Hi Jim, what compression were you running with the R6?  Now you've really got me thinking about that cam!

[Jim Ratto]

My 94 x 78 ran best, no question about it, with the R6E8. The 86C is more ragged and doesn't offer more up top, in my engine.
The R6E8 from my notes was 271' @ 0.050", 306' @ seat and with Scat 1.25, made 0.530" lift. But the numbers don't begin to explain how well it ran.
Next time I freshen the bottom end, the 86C will be replaced with the R6

Hi Jim, what compression were you running with the R6?  Now you've really got me thinking about that cam!

  9.8:1

[Dick Mitchell]

I currently have a very similar combo to what you're considering.

74mm DMS x 88mm Cima pistons w/ Machine-in barrels
5.352" Eagle Porsche length rods
043 Casting 40 x 35.5 p/p heads
K8 with 1.4's
1.5" header
Bosch 010
42mm Weber DCNF's
 
Jim helped me spec this engine out a few years ago and I absolutely LOVE it!  The cam is still very streetable and screams when you need it.  I'm also running a 6lb. Crown flywheel which adds to the fun IMO.  I'm sure you wont be disappointed with the power, especially with your increased head flow and IDA's

[Frank LUX]

I currently have a very similar combo to what you're considering.

74mm DMS x 88mm Cima pistons w/ Machine-in barrels
5.352" Eagle Porsche length rods
043 Casting 40 x 35.5 p/p heads
K8 with 1.4's
1.5" header
Bosch 010
42mm Weber DCNF's
 
Jim helped me spec this engine out a few years ago and I absolutely LOVE it!  The cam is still very streetable and screams when you need it.  I'm also running a 6lb. Crown flywheel which adds to the fun IMO.  I'm sure you wont be disappointed with the power, especially with your increased head flow and IDA's

Sounds Great...!!!

Frank