1776cc or 1968cc???

[ChristianDKT]

I got some parts and i want to build engine for a bug, for street use (daily/weekend/trip/fun).
So I'm looking for suggestions.

Parts list:

69mm stock vw crank, 8 dowellt with lightened flywheel (balanced)
90,5mm mahle "A" pistons
stock rods
stock reworked 35,5 x 32 heads, ported and matched for 40mm manifolds
40 dell o'rto's
scat C45 cam
1:1,25 rockers

or

74mm AA c/w crank with lightened Scat flywheel (balanced)
92mm AA Perf  "B" pistons thick-walls
5,4" rods
44 idf's
web 86a
1:1,4 scat rockers
no heads allredy..

AS21 Injection Case (no fuel pump mount) bored for 90,5/92mm, full flow.

If you were gonna build from this list, what would you choose and what would you ad?
Thanks

[Zach Gomulka]

IMO, the cam is a little bit too big for the 1776. A C35 (or similar) grind would be better suited.

I like the 1968 combo. CB's new 40x35.5 Panchito's would work great on it. I would use 5.325" rods to keep the engine stock width. And the 40mm Dells from the 1776

[ChristianDKT]

92 B pistons will work with 5,325" rods?

With cam will you choose??

[Zach Gomulka]

92 B pistons will work with 5,325" rods?

With cam will you choose??

Ohh, I did not notice the 92's were B's. You'll need a longer stroke or 5.5" rods to make those work nicely. 'A' pistons work great on a 74mm stroke with 5.325's. 5.4's will also work with the 74, the engine will just be about .200"/5mm wider overall.

Do you have all of these parts now?

[ChristianDKT]

yes, i got these parts now.

i built a few engines the last few years, but not for me... my last engine in my callooker was a 1835 with stock mild portet heads, fully balanced, german schleicher cam, 40 idf's, 41 merged header, 1:1,25 rockers. put out 105hp!! was a nice engine for the streets and also for trips. but now i want a bigger one also for street with around 120/130 hp.
when i got a plan for my engine, i'll sell the rest of the parts!

i also got a 84mm chevy crank with 5.4" rods, it s also a opinion... so i can use the 92 B pistons and the web 86a... 2234cc... little bit unusual!?!?!

too much parts

[Zach Gomulka]

The 2334 isn't unusual at all. Since you have the parts and experience, I see no reason not to build it. You will go well past your 120-130hp goal though

With the leftover parts I would put the 90.5's with the 74 crank for 1904cc. Panchito heads and 40mm Dell's. Use the C45 cam.

[Torben Alstrup]

Dont use the 86a on so large displacement. It is a decent cam for engines in the 1800 - 2100 range, no more.
If it has to be with stock rockers, use the Web 121/125 on 108 LC.  - Or use the C45 with 1,25 or 1,3 rockers. In a good set up it could pull 150-160hp easy and be a grocery getter still.

T

[ChristianDKT]

@ Torben... 150-160hp with the 92x84, C45, 1:1,25 rockers, 44 idf's... which heads should i take?? or do you mean an other setup ??

I like the "smaller" stroker engines, they are more oldschool and "porschely"! I prefer to built an engine with the 74 stroke. so whats the best i can get out of these parts??? i also think about to sell some parts an buy new heads, cam, rods, pistons,... for a nice 74mm stroker.

[Jim Ratto]

@ Torben... 150-160hp with the 92x84, C45, 1:1,25 rockers, 44 idf's... which heads should i take?? or do you mean an other setup ??

I like the "smaller" stroker engines, they are more oldschool and "porschely"! I prefer to built an engine with the 74 stroke. so whats the best i can get out of these parts??? i also think about to sell some parts an buy new heads, cam, rods, pistons,... for a nice 74mm stroker.

I like the thick cylinder wall 92 x 74 setup. For a street engine with a "fun" power band I would stay conservative on intake port and valve diameter, as well as intake runner porting, use a 35.5mm exhaust and have the exhaust ported to about 75-85% of header pipe diam. And for cam I'd run Engle W125 or if you have to use 1.4 ratio rockers, something like K8 Engle or Web 86B

[Joel Mohr]

I think we can all agree the HP is in the heads...I just did a 1915 with Wedge ports for a customer that made 165HP with 48 IDFs...Web 122 on 108c... Big ports don't need to be feared if the cam is right and the compression is high enough to sustain a decent vacuum signal from idle up. Oh, and it was Hemi cut with 9.8 to 1...purrs like a kitten and very smooth all the way to 7,000....He has since put it in his 1300# drag car, and it knocks down 12.20s with a rookie driver...I'm sure there is a 11.90 in it...

[speedwell]

. 'A' pistons work great on a 74mm stroke

zach may be a stupid question , but those 92A are for 40hp ?? someone said that they are only for 64mm  ,the wirst poin are 18 or 20 mm

[nicolas]

. 'A' pistons work great on a 74mm stroke

zach may be a stupid question , but those 92A are for 40hp ?? someone said that they are only for 64mm  ,the wirst poin are 18 or 20 mm

i think Zach is refering to 'regular' 92mm pistons that are used with a 69 crank, but can be used up to cranks of 78mm, 78 and larger are more convenient to build with B pistons because the wrist pin is offset (22mm both)

[Zach Gomulka]

. 'A' pistons work great on a 74mm stroke

zach may be a stupid question , but those 92A are for 40hp ?? someone said that they are only for 64mm  ,the wirst poin are 18 or 20 mm

i think Zach is refering to 'regular' 92mm pistons that are used with a 69 crank, but can be used up to cranks of 78mm, 78 and larger are more convenient to build with B pistons because the wrist pin is offset (22mm both)

Yep, 69mm stroke. 92's for 40hp are very uncommon.

[ChristianDKT]

Now i got a pair of Panchito 44 with 40x35. I think i do the 1968cc.
Do you think it will work with the Web 86a 105°LC and Berg 1:1,45 rockers??

[Torben Alstrup]

It´ll work. But why did you order that cam on 105 LC??? that´s for small engines or busses at best.
Of the two, I´d rather take the C45 with 1,25 rockers and advance it 2 degrees. 9,5 - 1 CR It´ll rip with those heads. 130 hp easy.
Use aluminum pushrods and it will be about as quiet running as a Web cammed engine.

T

[ChristianDKT]

I bought that cam and didn't recocnized thats on a 105LC...

or should i order a new cam??

maybe a :

Web 163
Web 110
Web 86b

[Torben Alstrup]

Well, if that does not intimidate you, I would say yes. Buy the one that gives you the characteristics you want. Judging from the ones you have already bought I´d say the Web 110 or the 109. Even a 109/110 split on 108 LC could work awesome. But still the C45 would be a good cam for the engine size. It will be a tad more noisy running, but that´s about it.

T

[ChristianDKT]

Now i got the most of the parts:

AS21 FI Case Full-Flow
74cw Crank with Scat Flywheel 5,7kg (balanced)
92mm "B" p&c (balanced)
5,5 Scat H-beams (balancend)
Panchito 44 40x35, sg. springs. titan retainers, worked to 52cc
Web#163  288°  250°@0,050"  10,92mm
TP 54g lifters
TP alu puschrods
CB 1:1,25 Rockers with Porsche swivel-feet Adjusters
26mm Oilpump
1,5l Deepsump
40 Dell's or 44 IDF's ?
I'm planning to get a CSP Python 38mm or 42mm, 'cause i need the heaterboxes!

Wich carbs and exhaust size i should use?  (only street-use)

[LGK]

Hello,

I would advise using the 40 Dell's,they flow equal as a 44IDF weber,and progression is better thru the rpm range.

Python is not bad,but there's better for streetperformance,especially is you're looking for low rpm torque.

You will easily make between 135-145Hp/ 210-220Nm torque with the right set up here.

Rgds Steve

[Torben Alstrup]

Now i got the most of the parts:

AS21 FI Case Full-Flow
74cw Crank with Scat Flywheel 5,7kg (balanced)
92mm "B" p&c (balanced)
5,5 Scat H-beams (balancend)
Panchito 44 40x35, sg. springs. titan retainers, worked to 52cc
Web#163  288°  250°@0,050"  10,92mm
TP 54g lifters
TP alu puschrods
CB 1:1,25 Rockers with Porsche swivel-feet Adjusters
26mm Oilpump
1,5l Deepsump
40 Dell's or 44 IDF's ?
I'm planning to get a CSP Python 38mm or 42mm, 'cause i need the heaterboxes!

Wich carbs and exhaust size i should use?  (only street-use)

For most power down low and best possible midrange use the Dells and an A1 1½" sidewinder.
For most power in the midrange & up, use 44IDF´s and 42 mm Python.