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Author Topic: Race 1584cc with 48IDA's engine build up aka (Titanium Valves search)  (Read 29403 times)
Greg Ward
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Posts: 181


« Reply #180 on: September 24, 2019, 07:16:51 am »

Tuning still to go, engine should be in the car tomorrow, then I guess we'll be doing as much driving as we can to bed everything in.
As those pistons and rings are for a turbo car, the gaps are a bit big, and it's a steel chromed top ring so that might take a bit of seating.
Once we've got a few 100miles on it we can start revving it a bit and check out the A/F range on the incar wideband and dial it in.
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Greg Ward
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Posts: 181


« Reply #181 on: September 24, 2019, 07:19:08 am »

Warwick bound?

Certainly is. We don't want to miss it even though cutting close as usual...
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Jim Ratto
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7114



« Reply #182 on: September 27, 2019, 17:30:26 pm »

What an accomplishment! It sure sounds ferocious too. Thanks for sharing each step of the build Greg, I have to go back through from the beginning again. Very nice
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DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
Martin S.
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 912



« Reply #183 on: September 28, 2019, 14:09:18 pm »

I agree! Reminds me of my build years ago when I posted pics along the way. Too bad it was lost in the transition to the European domain.
Maybe Iíll repost them again sometime.
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Cal Look white 68 Bug with AJ Sims EFI Turbo 2332. 194hp 240tq @ 5500 rpm 3psi boost.
Greg Ward
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Posts: 181


« Reply #184 on: October 08, 2019, 04:39:50 am »

Thanks guys,

Well finally back home after the last weekends racing.
Unfortunately the tune on the street was very last minute due to things like the Chinese alternator putting out 17v at idle, and points gaps that kept closing up each time the engine was revved past 6000rpm because the rubbing block is now plastic and not bakelite and simply wears away.

I know, who uses points anymore you'll say, but with one day left all we could get was a pertronix, that seemed to work well, and a rough tune dialled in with the AF meter.
At the track which was 700miles away and a different elevation, all seemed good off the trailer on the Friday.
Saturday morning car wouldn't start, weak spark but there however no fire. Pushing it and clutching wouldn't do it and noticed raw fuel dripping out the exhaust.
Swapped to a 009 with points and it fired right up.

Long story short we chased all Saturday to get the engine to rev properly past 6000rpm, as it just went off like a rev limiter, which by the end of the day we found the Pro control was either wired wrongly or simply didn't like the points as even though was turned to 8000 was definately going off at 6000.
Disconnected that and finally on Sunday got to about 7300 before it all fell over again, a coil change and some jetting and it was happy to rev to 8800 in neutral but not under load.
So on the trailer it went.

So fairly disappointed in that, electronic issues but nothing mechanical at fault whatsoever, so the build is sound, now onto sorting out ignition and tune, there is no deadline pressure now, so we can take our time and sort it out and I'll update this.
Once dialled in, next month I hope to be running it down the 1/4 for some proper full rev passes.

At the track, dry and dusty!

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Sunday 2 best runs, can't wait till it revs properly and cleanly.

https://youtu.be/EeNJG7_qUoQ

https://youtu.be/qUshvkb26J0

Cheers,

Greg

« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:51:52 am by Greg Ward » Logged
andrewlandon67
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 365



« Reply #185 on: October 10, 2019, 15:50:09 pm »

Thanks guys,

Well finally back home after the last weekends racing.
Unfortunately the tune on the street was very last minute due to things like the Chinese alternator putting out 17v at idle, and points gaps that kept closing up each time the engine was revved past 6000rpm because the rubbing block is now plastic and not bakelite and simply wears away.

I know, who uses points anymore you'll say, but with one day left all we could get was a pertronix, that seemed to work well, and a rough tune dialled in with the AF meter.
At the track which was 700miles away and a different elevation, all seemed good off the trailer on the Friday.
Saturday morning car wouldn't start, weak spark but there however no fire. Pushing it and clutching wouldn't do it and noticed raw fuel dripping out the exhaust.
Swapped to a 009 with points and it fired right up.

Long story short we chased all Saturday to get the engine to rev properly past 6000rpm, as it just went off like a rev limiter, which by the end of the day we found the Pro control was either wired wrongly or simply didn't like the points as even though was turned to 8000 was definately going off at 6000.
Disconnected that and finally on Sunday got to about 7300 before it all fell over again, a coil change and some jetting and it was happy to rev to 8800 in neutral but not under load.
So on the trailer it went.

So fairly disappointed in that, electronic issues but nothing mechanical at fault whatsoever, so the build is sound, now onto sorting out ignition and tune, there is no deadline pressure now, so we can take our time and sort it out and I'll update this.
Once dialled in, next month I hope to be running it down the 1/4 for some proper full rev passes.

At the track, dry and dusty!

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Sunday 2 best runs, can't wait till it revs properly and cleanly.

https://youtu.be/EeNJG7_qUoQ

https://youtu.be/qUshvkb26J0

Cheers,

Greg



Sorry to hear about the electronics issues! Still though, this motor is one hell of an accomplishment and I can't wait to see what it can do once you get the spark and tune sorted out properly!
Logged

14.877 @ 88.85 mph

Dreaming of IDAs, planning on paint someday. "Walking Softly and Carrying a Big Fucking Stick" - Zach G.
Greg Ward
Full Member
***
Posts: 181


« Reply #186 on: October 11, 2019, 05:11:17 am »

Cheers Andrew,
I'm not deterred at all, even though it was a little disappointing electrics wise.

We'll get it sorted out and run the crap out of this engine to get some good feedback and idea's for my next one.
 Grin
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Martin S.
Hero Member
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Posts: 912



« Reply #187 on: October 13, 2019, 16:18:47 pm »

Donít forget to get some time on it before running it hard. The carbon coats the piston crown and keeps the heat from getting down to the rings which can cause a loss of temper.  Wink
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Cal Look white 68 Bug with AJ Sims EFI Turbo 2332. 194hp 240tq @ 5500 rpm 3psi boost.
Bruce
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1390


« Reply #188 on: October 19, 2019, 10:37:32 am »

The carbon coats the piston crown and keeps the heat from getting down to the rings which can cause a loss of temper.  Wink
Where do you get crap like that from?

Piston rings are NOT heat treated.  Even if they were, it would take temps way over 1000ļF to alter any heat treatment.
Logged
Martin S.
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 912



« Reply #189 on: October 19, 2019, 16:34:52 pm »

There were race cars where the owner took his new engine straight to the track to max it out and 'see what it'll do' with zero time on it.
The rings can lose tension from heat creeping down from the chamber.
 Wink
Logged

Cal Look white 68 Bug with AJ Sims EFI Turbo 2332. 194hp 240tq @ 5500 rpm 3psi boost.
Bruce
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1390


« Reply #190 on: October 19, 2019, 18:29:21 pm »

Then there were the two friends who bought identical motorcycles on the same day.  One vowed to baby it for the first few thousand km, the other treated his like it was stolen.  A couple of months later after they argued, they dynoed them.  Guess which one made more hp?
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Joel Mohr
Full Member
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Posts: 184



« Reply #191 on: October 22, 2019, 01:48:14 am »

I'll never forget watching Gary Berg build a race motor for the black car, put it on the dyno, warm it up, then do a "full pull" at 8 grand to seat the rings....then he would leak it down.  if it was over 5% he would take it back apart...
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SEE YA AT THE RACES!!!
Greg Ward
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Posts: 181


« Reply #192 on: November 11, 2019, 11:19:08 am »

Hey Bruce, I think the faster one would have been the man that ran it hard from the beginning.     Grin

We caned this  little engine from the beginning, it was awesome....

I said I'd update this soon, and i will.


Greg
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Neil Davies
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Posts: 3386



« Reply #193 on: November 11, 2019, 21:30:48 pm »

The thing I've always worried about with building a new engine then thrashing it to seat the rings is the cam break in - how can you do both?
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2007cc, 48IDFs, street car. 14.45@93 on pump fuel, treads, muffler and fanbelt. October 2017!
Martin S.
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 912



« Reply #194 on: November 13, 2019, 01:56:01 am »

The better way to have nicely sealing rings is to build the motor properly with the crank centerline decked to the case and barrel seating surfaces. Assume barrels are not straight from new, and need honing on a machine to make sure they are square to the case.
 Grin
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Cal Look white 68 Bug with AJ Sims EFI Turbo 2332. 194hp 240tq @ 5500 rpm 3psi boost.
andrewlandon67
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 365



« Reply #195 on: May 14, 2020, 21:11:44 pm »

Any updates on this mini monster?
Logged

14.877 @ 88.85 mph

Dreaming of IDAs, planning on paint someday. "Walking Softly and Carrying a Big Fucking Stick" - Zach G.
Greg Ward
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Posts: 181


« Reply #196 on: June 24, 2020, 17:14:41 pm »

Sorry Andrew,
I had a problem with the flywheel trying to detach itself from the crank... another thing to learn from...is your gland nut bottomed out before the flywheel is tight?
I thought absolutely and I was absolutely wrong...

Next, this engine had a lot of blowby, and got too hot...

That is always attributed to 94mm pistons and silly heads that have no fins...

Well, mine is stock 85.5mm barrels and I  did get rid of one fin, but 7 remain, if a street eliminator has 5 thick fins, what is the problem...

Again, my fault and also a time constraint, as the barrels I honed and got shortened were already bored 0.030", so I ended up with a 0.045" ring gap, that not even supercharged on nitrous could bring back....

Lastly,  here's a thing, always thinking about the points ignition breaking down, but it was this.....

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Greg Ward
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Posts: 181


« Reply #197 on: June 24, 2020, 17:22:06 pm »

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

But it was sealing well to barrels....

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Greg Ward
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Posts: 181


« Reply #198 on: June 24, 2020, 17:24:34 pm »

The valve removal of #2 Exhaust came with a free removable guide! Grin
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brewsy
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Posts: 219



« Reply #199 on: June 25, 2020, 12:33:14 pm »

The valve removal of #2 Exhaust came with a free removable guide! Grin


Bad luck Greg.
Why do you think that happened? Were the guides not installed with enough interference?

Cheers
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Greg Ward
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Posts: 181


« Reply #200 on: June 27, 2020, 04:13:50 am »

Most probably my fault, I replaced all 8 guides, although this particular chamber was the first one to get welded up, all the rest got welded progressively nicer, so who knows may have got too much heat?
These heads were literally something that should have been recycled and not used, they were used and abused type3 heads, and were rubbish, but doing all this welding I just wanted to try it rather than use those nice Brazilian alcohol heads that I'd spent so much time on and start again and weld them up...

Never mind, I think it was a good learning curve, because I was always concerned why I could go all over the jetting map and not really change much, also thought it was all electrical, there were definitely electrical issues ignition wise, but a loose guide to this degree would have caused us most problems.

All good, I'll fix it and another set of barrels, and can't wait to put it all back together again and see how it goes....

Cheers,

Greg
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PPRMicke
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« Reply #201 on: June 27, 2020, 09:12:32 am »

Hi Greg
If you are thinking about new head Look at the aftermarket head They are much better in the channels and the flow is also better than Vw
In the 1600 challenge in Sweden, there is a lot going on with mass hp in the small machines Know that machines are being built up to 15.1 in CR
We are talking about 140-150 hp with valves that are 35.5x32 We are waiting for the first dyno pull
/// Micke

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=290263848826472&set=pcb.2729214470700576&type=3&theater&ifg=1
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Greg Ward
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Posts: 181


« Reply #202 on: June 27, 2020, 10:06:26 am »

Thanks  Micke,
But the point is not buying the latest and greatesr but to see what we can create...

I want to see 158.4hp this year, or 1 hp per cc...


But I'm not gonna do it by cubic dollars....

Cheers,

Greg



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PPRMicke
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Posts: 237



WWW
« Reply #203 on: June 27, 2020, 10:54:25 am »

Thanks  Micke,
But the point is not buying the latest and greatesr but to see what we can create...

I want to see 158.4hp this year, or 1 hp per cc...


But I'm not gonna do it by cubic dollars....

Cheers,

Greg

Was it on 37 mm valve
Which CR  

Do you have any idea what the flow was
/// Micke





« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 10:56:22 am by PPRMicke » Logged
Greg Ward
Full Member
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Posts: 181


« Reply #204 on: June 27, 2020, 13:58:31 pm »


On 35 5mm inlet, and 32mm exhaust valves,  Std...

12 :1cr but, with my ring gap, about 9....

Flow? Whatever all my engines had to do 9.3secs @ 76mph in the eoighth mile
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Greg Ward
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Posts: 181


« Reply #205 on: June 30, 2020, 05:37:47 am »

Fixed the guide, without breaking the thin boss and red loctited, then recut all seats....

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Cheers,

Greg
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andrewlandon67
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 365



« Reply #206 on: June 30, 2020, 16:10:57 pm »

I'm sorry to hear about all the issues you've had, but it's good to see you're getting back on top of it! Good luck!
Logged

14.877 @ 88.85 mph

Dreaming of IDAs, planning on paint someday. "Walking Softly and Carrying a Big Fucking Stick" - Zach G.
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