build the ultimate 1641 for an ultimate tight budget!!

[beetletom]

ok at volksworld show i'm going to get all the bits for my motor.
i am going to be using the 1600 (ad code) engine out of my 70 bug.
and my friend said he will build it for me for not much money aslong as i get all the bits!

1641 barrels and pistons (and 1776 and above is too thin??)
engle 110 cam
straight cut cam gears (anyone got fed up of that whirring sound??)

anything else i need? valve springs etc...? please list!
polish and port the heads?


in the future i will be buying twin kadron 40 or 44 carbs (as they are the cheapest)
thanks,tom.

[beetletom]

90.5? that will be a 1776 then?

(or am i asking stupid questions?  )
but i guess we all have to start somewhere! 

[beetletom]

well, i want as little machine work as possible, due to cost
and i would like it to just bolt together, for now! as it will be my first FAST engine!

full weight 65 1200 bug
twin kadron 40 or 44 carbs in a few months time
stock heads, just ported and polished

[Rick Meredith]

90.5? that will be a 1776 then?

(or am i asking stupid questions?  )
but i guess we all have to start somewhere! 

not a stupid question 

yep 1776... how heavy of a car is it going in? Carbs? What are you doing to heads?

Unless you're using the Cedor USA scale... then its a 2180cc 

[beetletom]

thanks for the advice! 

[BeetleBug]

Why a 1641 when you can get close to 200hp on a 1600?

[BeetleBug]

Why a 1641 when you can get close to 200hp on a 1600?

well beetletom said he was on a budget, so, to me, slip in cubic inches are better for him than Johannes' motor, which, while it deserves tremendous respect, probably isn't the best fit here. I don't think a ultra high rpm small cc motor is a good "first fast VW motor"

I believe a good start would be to build a engine "correctly" A good starting point would be to look at what Johannes told and showed us. Apart from the special made JE pistons and the light flywheel I do not see any exotic parts in his combo, do you? The cam is available from Engle, a counter weight crank is easily found, IDA`s are "cheap" Agree?

I do not see Johannes engine as a ultra high rpm undriveable engine. Yes, it got it`s peak output high up there but the curve is really driveable. For me that is a killer combo! So if I would build a small engine on a tight budget I would have spent my money on the heads/manifold (labour), then used original pistons, same cam, light flywheel, counter weight crank + + + Of course I would not get the same results as Johannes but I would have been really satisfied with 120 - 140hp..

BB

[Type1/DVK]

1st question, what's the budget 

[Neil Davies]

For carbs I'd go for 36 Dellortos, every time. You'll pick a pair up from a decent breakers yard, or even off Ebay. I paid £25 for mine. CB Performance manifold/linkage/filter kit from John Maher Racing cost about £175 - that is half the price of a brand new Kadron kit! Port the heads and manifolds to the manifold gaskets yourself - don't worry about getting the heads with a special CNC port job, just some 1600 heads (35x32mm valves) with new valves, springs and retainers. Buy quality though, not the chinese junk.
Don't worry about straight cut gears - use the stock ones for more money saving. Spend on a decent header (1 5/8" merged or just a 4 into 1 if you want to keep the heaters, with a dual quiet pack instead of a breadbin). Full flow the case if you want - it's not strictly necessary on a little motor, especially if it's only going to be a stop-gap.

[beetletom]

1st question, what's the budget 

about £300-400 for parts and about £300 for carbs in the future.

£110 for 1641 barrels and pistons
£60 for the 110 cam
£60 for straight cut cam gears

[beetletom]

For carbs I'd go for 36 Dellortos, every time. You'll pick a pair up from a decent breakers yard, or even off Ebay. I paid £25 for mine. CB Performance manifold/linkage/filter kit from John Maher Racing cost about £175 - that is half the price of a brand new Kadron kit! Port the heads and manifolds to the manifold gaskets yourself - don't worry about getting the heads with a special CNC port job, just some 1600 heads (35x32mm valves) with new valves, springs and retainers. Buy quality though, not the chinese junk.
Don't worry about straight cut gears - use the stock ones for more money saving. Spend on a decent header (1 5/8" merged or just a 4 into 1 if you want to keep the heaters, with a dual quiet pack instead of a breadbin). Full flow the case if you want - it's not strictly necessary on a little motor, especially if it's only going to be a stop-gap.

cool thanks, got stock 1600 heads so thats ok i guess...?
valve springs etc... can all be bought in one pack by scat, are those any good?
got an RX exhaust and j tubes to go on so that would be perfect 

and whats full flow?  

[Type1/DVK]

pls, do some homework.. use search.

for this one?
http://restowagenuk.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9054&start=45

[beetletom]

thats it, sadly 

yes, looked at other threads, and are really confusing 

[Type1/DVK]

amen!

http://huelsmann.us/bugman/FilterTech.html

[Zach Gomulka]

Stock bottom end, light flywheel, 110 cam, port your own stock valve heads, 9:1, 1 1/2" merge, kadrons with bored venturies. Now go git 'em!

[beetletom]

i've ended up buying a 1641 already built
120 cam!!!!??!! full flowed, fram filter  heads have been ported a little
and lightened flywheel!

[Diederick/DVK]

cool!
how does it drive?

any pics? we like pics

[Neil Davies]

i've ended up buying a 1641 already built
120 cam!!!!??!! full flowed, fram filter  heads have been ported a little
and lightened flywheel!

Right, now bolt on some 36 or 40 Dells and have fun!

[beetletom]

cool!
how does it drive?

any pics? we like pics

havn't got it yet
and yep neil, i need to get carbs! and the top half of the engine,, as its just the long block!

[Bewitched666]

Go with 40mm carbs,very usefull when wanna upgrade to a bigger cced engine

[airstuff]

40 Dells are very nice

[beetletom]

and yep, today i'm paying for a pair of 40 dellortos!

just need to decide what exhaust! probably a merged header, as what others have said in another thread i posted.

[Zach Gomulka]

My GTV needs a new top end, so this winter I plan on tearing into it and adding as much hp as I can without cracking the case. So far the plans are... 87mm forged pistons, .040" deck (combined with the 87's it should raise my compression from 7.3 to 7.9), valve job and a little bit of home brew cylinder head porting, EMPI 1.4:1 rockers (increases valve lift by .090"), replace the 24mm venturies for 28's in the 32NDIX carb, 8 dowel the crank and flywheel, and a Kennedy Stage 1 aluminium pressure plate (3lbs lighter!) with a new clutch disc. I'll also be adding a type 4 oil cooler and an intake ring from a FI beetle to the fan shroud. Hopefully it make a big difference, I'd like to get my ET down from the 19.68 to high 17's! It should be funn!!

[57 oval]

1641 from ca.
Hi to all 1600 cc people. Just a quick note on my car. Its a 62 Bug  that runs low to mid 16s at are NASA races. best times are at night when cool! stock case/crank/flywheel/rods/and 113 heads/has a 110 cam and machported intake runners/09 dist/and bug pack header w/stinger/with a pict 34 carb that i cut out the choke butterfly. this thing is pure low cost fun!!! and a stock trans. when was the last time u went 80mph in the1/4 with a stocker?

[Hotrodvw]

This is fun reading!  I have a 1641 that came with a stocker single carb.  I made a few bolt on mods, and did a before and after dyno session to show the results.  I must say, a 30% over all increase in HP ain't too shabby.......needless to say, these motors are grossly under carbureted! 

Here's my thread about my dyno sessions...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=227442&highlight=low+dyno