discussion of high perf engine posts here...

[Jim Ratto]

here is where we can go back and forth and lose our minds through this ordeal....

thanks,

Jim

[Jesse/DVK]

Cool Jim, show me the post with all the tools I will need to build my engine so I can order them at the shops .

[Zach Gomulka]

Second point: I often hear people say they want to build the "shortblock" and let it sit and wait while they source the top end stuff to finish the "longblock". I really suggest against building the motor in stages like that.

I totally agree with this statement! Along the same lines... I always hear of guys wanting to slap the motor together now just to get it running and then make updates/improvements later. I feel the most common one is "Can I just install stock rockers with my FK8 cam, then upgrade to 1.4's later??" Yeah, sure you can. But it's stupid. You will have to set up rocker geometry- twice, cut pushrods- twice, do all this work- twice. Just save up the $200 for a nice set of rockers, do it once, get it over with.

[Jim Ratto]

Problem is, much of the checks that have to be performed during trial assmebly require lifter to cam contact and rotating engine. Do this after the shortblock is assembled and you will wipe lubricant from the faces. More on this later....

any effort that can be made to keep final assembly lubricant where it belongs is a good idea

[Bewitched666]

So far i agree with everybody here so no discussion from my part yet.

[Jim Ratto]

Couple of notes on the engines that will be shown in the pics:

Both motors are kind of atypical, wierdo motors. Sheep's motor is way off-the-wall small cc thing, built with nostalgia in mind, not the latest greatest technology. Not to say it will run like a pig, but it isn't the easiest way to get some power under the decklid. All the same, it is a cool conversation piece (I guess). Derek's motor is all together different.... 94 x 84, huge VW heads, drag-spec billet steel cam, high CR, big rockers, 48IDAs with big chokes, etc. This one is going to be all about twisting the snot out of it for power.

Anyway, my point is, the combinations here are not ones that I would suggest for fast street motor stuff. One is too wierd and ancient and the other is too wild and on ragged edge. But all of the techniques to build them should pretty much apply to any street motor, even a stock one.

Combinations I would suggest would be:

1776, round port 40 x 35.5 heads, 8.5-8.8:1, Engle 120 or Web 110 cam with stock rockers, Weber 44IDF or Dellorto 45DRLA or Weber 48IDA (with some patience) merged 1-5/8 header, Bosch 010 or 009, 12lb flywheel

1914, small oval port heads, 8.5-8.8:1, Engle K8 or Web 86B with good 1.4 rockers (Autocraft black or Scat), same carbs as above, same header, etc...

2016/2165/2276 (90.5x78, 94x78, 94x82), larger oval port 42 x 37 heads,  Engle K8 (1.4 rockers)or W130 (stock rockers or 1.25), 8.5-8.8:1, 48mm IDF or 48DRLA or 48IDA, 1-3/4 header, same ignition, 12lb flywheel...etc.

[j-f]

I have a question Mister Professor 

Do the gearbox ratio as importance in the choice of an engine?

I always thought that a 8*31 gearbox will work better with a strocker than with a stocker.

For example, if I plan to use a 4.12 gearbox with tires as 185-70-15,will a 1955 will work better than a 1915?

[Rune]

Combinations I would suggest would be:

1776, round port 40 x 35.5 heads, 8.5-8.8:1, Engle 120 or Web 110 cam with stock rockers, Weber 44IDF or Dellorto 45DRLA or Weber 48IDA (with some patience) merged 1-5/8 header, Bosch 010 or 009, 12lb flywheel

1914, small oval port heads, 8.5-8.8:1, Engle K8 or Web 86B with good 1.4 rockers (Autocraft black or Scat), same carbs as above, same header, etc...

2016/2165/2276 (90.5x78, 94x78, 94x82), larger oval port 42 x 37 heads,  Engle K8 (1.4 rockers)or W130 (stock rockers or 1.25), 8.5-8.8:1, 48mm IDF or 48DRLA or 48IDA, 1-3/4 header, same ignition, 12lb flywheel...etc.

Why allways that conservative on the CR when you talk about street motors..? Is that because of the poor quality fuel available in the states? I get the impression that there is the US way of thinking and then there is the European (or maybe just scandinavian?) way when it comes to streetmotor thinking. Is'nt those low cr's kinda like trowing power out the window?

[Rune]

I have a question Mister Professor 

Do the gearbox ratio as importance in the choice of an engine?

I always thought that a 8*31 gearbox will work better with a strocker than with a stocker.

For example, if I plan to use a 4.12 gearbox with tires as 185-70-15,will a 1955 will work better than a 1915?

Would depend on the state of tune of the engine, not just the size.. A big cc motor would give more "free" torque though.

[louisb]

Combinations I would suggest would be:

1776, round port 40 x 35.5 heads, 8.5-8.8:1, Engle 120 or Web 110 cam with stock rockers, Weber 44IDF or Dellorto 45DRLA or Weber 48IDA (with some patience) merged 1-5/8 header, Bosch 010 or 009, 12lb flywheel

1914, small oval port heads, 8.5-8.8:1, Engle K8 or Web 86B with good 1.4 rockers (Autocraft black or Scat), same carbs as above, same header, etc...

2016/2165/2276 (90.5x78, 94x78, 94x82), larger oval port 42 x 37 heads,  Engle K8 (1.4 rockers)or W130 (stock rockers or 1.25), 8.5-8.8:1, 48mm IDF or 48DRLA or 48IDA, 1-3/4 header, same ignition, 12lb flywheel...etc.

Why allways that conservative on the CR when you talk about street motors..? Is that because of the poor quality fuel available in the states? I get the impression that there is the US way of thinking and then there is the European (or maybe just scandinavian?) way when it comes to streetmotor thinking. Is'nt those low cr's kinda like trowing power out the window?

So what is the line of thought for Scandinavian motors as far as CR is concerned? I think Deano was going to do some sort of comparison between gas from CA and Texas one time. Not sure what came of it. 

--louis

[Rune]

Just have the impression that most guys up here build higher cr streetmotors, like 10:1 or more.. But then again we have short summers, so maybe we are just after the most bang for the buck and won't mind redoing the motors during winter    Kidding aside, why shouldnt a higher cr motor live just as long? Like, would the same motor suffer more problems than gains when at 10,5:1 instead of 8,5?

[Jim Ratto]

high CR motors are less forgiving when it comes to driving technique, and tuning.
setting up deck-height is pretty easy compared to getting a pair of carbs to live happily with engine in real high state of tune.
It gets hot here where I live, and I would hate to steer people in the direction of short-lived gratification and a pile of holed pistons.

If a guy built a 10:1 2276 here, and was off on the jetting, may a smidge lean, and had timing turned up and laid into it on the freeway on a hot day here.....he'd never make it.

[Rune]

Ok, thanks for the input. I guess there might be some small benefits of living up here in this refrigerator of a country after all then
Looking forward to see the motors coming together, espesially the tools and measuring involved. Thanks for taking the time to do this Jim.

[airstuff]

Few guys here in Croatia are alo runnig high compression with 98 octane fuel,one has even 12:1 and 10::1 on the 1776 with Engle 120.

His builder says that the more compression,more the usable power so I wonder is this really so

[louisb]

Few guys here in Croatia are alo runnig high compression with 98 octane fuel,

Best we can get is 93 - 94 here in the states at the pump. (Not sure if they have different ways of measuring the octane over there though.) And in some areas, like So Cal, they have to add a bunch of crap to the gas to keep the emissions levels down. I think that might have something to do with it too.

--louis

[airstuff]

We even have the new OMV 100 octane fuel,but not many people use it,and it si pricey

[Jim Ratto]

I have a question Mister Professor 

Do the gearbox ratio as importance in the choice of an engine?

I always thought that a 8*31 gearbox will work better with a strocker than with a stocker.

For example, if I plan to use a 4.12 gearbox with tires as 185-70-15,will a 1955 will work better than a 1915?

the engines above are based on use of stock 4.37 or 4.12 gearbox with stock 1st -  4th
I don't like the way VW's run with stock 3.88 gearbox, even with big cc strokers.

[Bewitched666]

why not Jim??

[Jim Ratto]

why not Jim??

too lazy.... off idle, upon take off in 1st gear, no SNAP like 4.12 or 4.37
and even worse in 4th gear even with 84mm stroker motor, conservative heads, cam...   

maybe I have driven too few cars with 3.88, but they always seemed lazy dogs

[Bewitched666]

I'm going to look for a 4.12 gearbox,i think my 69 has a 4.37 gearbox in it but the 4th gear is to high for my regular freeway cruising.
I will keep this box just for dragracing then,upgraded of course.

Keep the post comming Jim.

[Jim Ratto]

Hi all, sorry I haven't made any progress at all ..... yet.

I'm getting closer to making time to wrap up Sheep's 88 x74   

[Harry/FDK]

I'm finally putting my 2165 aluminum cased motor back together again, with lots of PM's between Jim and me. Even with not too much heat during the summer (Netherlands), my Bugpack case produces a lot of heat.
Anyway, after taking the engine apart after hard 4000 km's, ALL bearings and lifters looked perfect.
Keep you posted.

PS. Lifters are Scat Lube-A-Lobes, SLR treated from Aircooled.net

[airstuff]

What do you guys say for the lightweight CB Performance lifters used with Engle camshafts,is this a possible combination?

[Jim Ratto]

I think they can be used against an Engle. According to CB's website, they can be used against all popular cam types.

[dirk zeyen]

i'm not happy with the cb parts...
if you buy a IDF-update kit the main jet is stamped as an xxx and in real it is xyz, problems with dropped spindels, problems with cranks, the list goes on.but i'm from germany, don't know if it is bettter over there.

[JS]

About CB...
Just mocked up a couple of "CNC match ported Big Beef" manifolds on my 044 wedgeports. I don´t think "match porting" means the same in US and Norway.

[dirk zeyen]

 
no words

[JS]

To sliiiide our rambling back to topic, where do you buy the blue stuff that you use to make an imprint on where you´re going to take away material?

[Lee.C]

To sliiiide our rambling back to topic, where do you buy the blue stuff that you use to make an imprint on where you´re going to take away material?

Any GOOD motor spares shop should still have some laying around or try asking your machine shop 

[Peter]

Yep , count me in the list with the manifolds
nice huh