Lowered spindles, a gift from the gods or a look wrecking option?

[Jon]

You know how the front wheels move forward in the wheel arch when you lower the front. Do you think of that as a part of the seventies "look"? If you fit lowered spindles you lose much of this effect, but you gain comfort I hear. I have a set of lowered spindles for my car on the shelf, but I’m still debating it with myself. And how about double caster shims on top of everything... puts it right... or ruins it...

What’s your take on it, part of the look or what?

- Going for that look!!

[benssp]

you may still require caster shims, even with dropped spindles, plus they widen the track by 12mm each side, personally, i don't like them

[Jon]

A little more caster than stock has never hurt any bug for me. But the shims also moves the wheels forward in the arc. Why dont you like them Benssp

[Peter Roberts]

No Castor shims don't move the wheel forward in the arch .

If you have the car lowered without dropped spindles , the trailing arms are at an angle upwards in an arc ( 2 o'clock position ) , this is what moves the wheel forward in the arch . When you fit Castor shims , it pushes the bottom of the beam out , and effectively pivots the trailing arms back down the arc again ( more towards the 3 o'clock position ) , putting the wheel back in the centre of the wheel arch more .

If you fit 2 or 3 sets of Castor shims , watch the front suspension height raise as they go in .

If you have a King & Link Pin car , you can live without drop spindles . If you have a ball joint car , kiss goodbye to your fillings , as if the car is low , it will rattle them out , and drop spindles become a necessity . Fit them and a CB 2" Narrowed ( dorked ) beam  , to counteract the offset the spindles give , and you will get a decent ride .

[Jon]

I agree with you Peter about the ball joint NEEDING the spindles, my friend has a 66 that will take care of your fillings. 

And after playing around with some “construction” drawings of a linkpin suspension I found that the amount of caster shims needed to move it forward would be around 8... hehe... but at the same time it doesn’t move the wheel back to the stock location either. Casters just move the spindle down and gives direction stability naturally.
Then I learnt something today to.

Oh well, back the looks....     

[Zach Gomulka]

I hate how the wheels get pushed forwad when just using a lowered beam! Looks shit, IMO. If dropped spindles were avaliable "in the day" I bet people would have used them When combined with a proper narrowed beam, there is abselutely nothing wrong with them.

[Diederick/DVK]

I reckon a combination of both is best. Dropped spindles alone won't suffice, so you need adjusters as well...

[Lids]

I used to have a lowered beam with sway-a-ways on ball joints, I welded it in preturned so it would rest on the floor if i wanted.

It handled like a skate board, but my girlfriends tits used to bounce like i have never seen.  A reason to stick with it I suppose.

Any way got fed up with it and went the way of spindles, I would never go back.

[Diederick/DVK]

It handled like a skate board, but my girlfriends tits used to bounce like i have never seen.  A reason to stick with it I suppose.

 

[Jon]

To me this isn't ugly at all... it just looks like it "should"... even if its not centred in the wheel arc...
It looks "aggressive" to me... the designer in me fights the biased VW-dude

[bullitt]

i think that if u go for a serious lowering u need suspension  not to travel a lot.
otherwise u will have tyre touching fenders at every corner with a little bump.

problem is that spindles work and suspension is low....but with all travel and with wheel moved more external!!!!!!!

at nostalgia speed garage we tried both systems.......eeer.....all 3 systems...... spindles, spindles and lowered beam, lowered beam without spindles.

in both with spindles only and spindles with beam, car had tyre clearence problem (steering) even with michelin 135s!!!!!

to tell truth i never consider to install smart cars 135 lowered.....cause they are not old style, they are ugly and then i think a thing:
one of the best thing of lowering a car is eliminating space beetween tyre and arches of fenders.
if i lower the car and put small wheels i have the same air as before beetween fender and tyre....then i got only half result.....only lowered the body on the ground but not fender on wheels.

maybe it is my limit, but in my opinion i simply can't accept tyre collision with fenders. tyre have to stay far from fender. in any case. even at bump stop giving all sttering u can. 

we could get this result only with lowered beam....

last thing:  lowered spindles are a new thing....and this is not good for an old car.....

[Peter Roberts]

I have been driving lowered Bugs for 21 years , and could not go back to the bad ride of a Ball-joint lowered car 

A king & Link Pin car rides far better , but when low , still bumps about a fair bit .

As for Smart Car Tyres , don't get me started , they are wrong wrong wrong !!

I try and stay at a 145 size tyre , at least , or a 155 on a 6" rim , for better contact patch area .

I agree that when you fit the dropped spindles , they give the suspension travel back , whereas it is binding/bottoming out without them , this can cause the wheel to hit the wing over bumps whilst turning , which is dangerous and unacceptable 

In order to deal with this problem , I only narrow ' Dork ' the beams on customers cars , enough to counteract the offset gained by dropped spindles and disc kits , and to tuck the wheel a tiny bit further under , to avoid tyre wing clearance problems .

As far as dropped spindles being a new thing , I welcome a solution to a long standing problem , that improves the drive of the cars vastly . As do modern adjustable shocks , uprated anti roll bars , wide 5 disc brakes , etc etc 

I would rather have a car that drives safely , with some subtle modern additions , than one that doesn't stop or handle , without them 

[Diederick/DVK]

I suppose you're right Pete! A pair of spindles on a 2" narrowed beam should make a good ride and a good looking car.

[Eddie DVK]

I have used them both.

I started with dropped spindles but had the same tyre clearance problems, wide track and also because I had 7J rims in the front.
So I removed the spindles welded in adjusters and dropped it again, well I can tell you that in Holland we have a lot of speedbumps and not every road
is paved...so when you use your car as daily driver in the summer, I got crazy from feelling every bump in the road....I didn t like that at all..

Now I got the beam and the spindles and I like it the way it is...also changed to 6J rims in the front still got some clearance problems but they are minor.

PS as of the question if they are to modern...well nobody used gasburners on their car s and now everbody loves them, the same with mondo/phat boy muffler so I dont see any problem in that..

Kind regards Edgar

[Diederick/DVK]

...in Holland we have a lot of speedbumps and not every road
is paved...so when you use your car as daily driver in the summer, I got crazy from feelling every bump in the road....I didn t like that at all..

Oh yes, tell me about it. Asphalt roads are fine, but the bumps and smaller roads are killing!

PS as of the question if they are to modern...well nobody used gasburners on their car s and now everbody loves them, the same with mondo/phat boy muffler so I dont see any problem in that..

Fair point!

[Jon]

I would say Mondo mufflers and Burners impact the look of the car in a quite big way while the spindles are hidden to all but the owner. So modern or not doesn’t really affect anything.

Seems to me that no one gives the placement in the wheel arc any thought, so I'm at square one still  

Has anyone experience from this setup:
6" rims with 145 tires on VW disk brakes (03). Fitted to a dorked :-) narrowed linkpin beam with CB lowered spindles. I want the same relationship between the fender and wheel as stock. Don’t want ANY of that GermanFolks look... but still the suspension needs to be pretty stiff to be able to have the front really low. Hard to say without mocking it up and find the amount of dorking needed?? How much stiffer does the beam get from two inches of narrowing?    

[Peter Roberts]

' Dorked ' beam , CB Dropped spindles , VW disc brakes , with 6" late Fusch's , with 155's ( sorry no 145's ) , tucked a little , but not too much ( in my opinion ) , Spax adjustable shocks ( set up firm-ish ) .

The ' Dorking ' of the beam , does stiffen up the torsion effect of the leaves , as they have a shorter length to work over .

As for comfort , you wouldn't know you were riding in a lowered car , 1000 miles to DAS and back , in relative comfort ( apart from the earplugs  )

[67Screamer]

' Dorked ' beam , CB Dropped spindles , VW disc brakes , with 6" late Fusch's , with 155's ( sorry no 145's ) , tucked a little , but not too much ( in my opinion ) , Spax adjustable shocks ( set up firm-ish ) .

The ' Dorking ' of the beam , does stiffen up the torsion effect of the leaves , as they have a shorter length to work over .

As for comfort , you wouldn't know you were riding in a lowered car , 1000 miles to DAS and back , in relative comfort ( apart from the earplugs  )

That ride is damn comfortable,ear plugs!Who needs ear plugs when your asleep. 

[Jon]

How much have you narrowed this beam? My rims will come out about 105mm from the mounting surface. Are those fenders genuine VW fenders?   

[Peter Roberts]

I think they were genuine fenders , the car has been built 10 years or more now .

The beam was narrowed 4" , and was the first one I did .

I personally prefer the wheel tucked a little bit under ( not GFK style ) , it looks a bit ' clumsy ' to me , when the tyre sits on the wing lip , but that's just my personal opinion .

I think it makes the car look tougher .

All these cars have ' Dorked ' beams , they all ride and drive beautifully , and look pretty hard and tough ( IMHO ) ....

[Jon]

4"?? That’s a lot, do you have to modify the shock towers with that amount? If you have a chance to check how much clearance you have sometime this winter i would really appreciate it. From the mounting surface on the disk to the fender edge.   

[Peter Roberts]

You have to ' tunnel ' the inner wings , not such a problem on an Oval , as the modifications stay under the petrol tank , on a later car ( King & Link Pin ) , you have to go into the luggage area , and modify the petrol tank as well . A lot of work , but worth it for the pleasant drive .

[Diederick/DVK]

4" is GFK style in my opinion 
Do all JG54 rides have lowered spindles?
Pete, as for balljoint beams... does the narrowing make for a pleasant drive? Or the lowered spindles?

I've been thinking of a 2" beam and spindles, but i reckon the tuck in will be too much with my 4.5" front wheels:
(don't mind the cambers, i need some aligning and fix the rear height) 

[Peter Roberts]

4" is GFK style in my opinion 
Do all JG54 rides have lowered spindles?
Pete, as for balljoint beams... does the narrowing make for a pleasant drive? Or the lowered spindles?

I've been thinking of a 2" beam and spindles, but i reckon the tuck in will be too much with my 4.5" front wheels:
(don't mind the cambers, i need some aligning and fix the rear height) 

Not all JG54 rides have drop spindles , but the ones that ride well do 

What you have to get your head round , is that although the beam may be narrowed by 2" a side , by the time you take into account the added offset of the drop spindles , and the increased offset of the wheel that you are using , the ' actual ' narrowing , is more like 3/4" to 1 " , just enough to tuck the wheel under , to stop rubbing issues .

The drop spindles are the entire reason for the better quality ride , whichever type of front suspension you have .

And as for ' GFK GAY  ' , none of us wear hair nets thanks 

[54Kab]

 ...lowered ball-joint car ?

  The ONLY way to go is dropped-spindles... my car had an awful ride when I first got it (ball-joint pan).. now its v.smooth...



 ..as Pete says, the 2" narrowed beam doesn't really make a massive difference... just enough...



this is with genuine oval wings and 4.5's too...

Steve Mortimer
JG54   

 

[Zach Gomulka]

And as for ' GFK GAY  ' , none of us wear hair nets thanks 

That is halarious!!!!  

I am ok with narrowed beams, as long as it is not too much. Just bearky enough to get the tires back behind the fender lip so there is no rubbing. I like the wide track look

[Peter Roberts]

Is that you with that beautiful car ....



How's it hangin Steve , are you coming to The Club Night on Friday ??

[Diederick/DVK]

Haha, Steve Mortimer the moviestar, innit? 
Nice pic 

[54Kab]

 ..bast*rds!   ...also, as G(ay)FK were mentioned... since these photos were taken; it's a bit higher at the back now!   

[54Kab]

..you coming to The Club Night on Friday ??

 -I am planning to be there...