The Cal-look Lounge

thought i'd start this, please post up anything you've done to your bug to save weight and what saving in kg/lb's

Just removed ALL the asphalt in a 67 - all in all that was 23 kg. including the garbage bag.

Best rgs
BB

I know phil(beardie weirdie) has saved 400g a side by removing his jacking points

I don't know how much weight it saved, but I chopped out most of the inside of my doors - just left the handle area and the edge of the big hole to strengthen it. You'd never know if I'd fitted doorcards! ;)
Phil's also used aluminium and titanium bolts on his car, and has race weight wings! :D

phil and pete shattock have a weight saving obsession, I think pete removes his Fram filter forracing!

So if you do like them and take it ALL THE WAY how light will your pan car be?

 

petes car is about 600ish kilos :o

Maybe he can share with us what he has done to get the weight down so far. Tekken`s pan split race car was 595 kg last year with a "heavy" turbo engine and autocraft gearbox. I do believe that is about how far you can go with a pan car.

BB

You need to have a look at the SSB.

If I remember correctly the SSB was 1400lbs when it did the 11.03/122 mph run?

Little Pete has gone a bit mad - reducing the thickness of the gears in the gearbox, drilling holes in everything bolt on, but leaving the body as Wolfsburg intended!  :o Original wings, doors and everything! :D Proper work of art...

Oh dear I could spend some serious time on this thread!  But in brief mine is 1300lbs 590KG.  I've not drilled the main body or pan - except the jacking points which I felt were not useful as so old, and also were a wind resistance..  Everything that bolts on or removes in any way has been removed or drilled or replaced with lighter.  Just apply it to everything on the car.  Bought different handles to find the lightest, use nasty tinware as thinner, drill the ignition key/door strikers, obviously all the nuts, bolts and washers.  356 generator is the lightest - hope to sheath it in ally and ball mill the case like Porsche 550.  Cut the tops off the shocks, buy ally shocks, ally trans mounts, ally traction bar, drilled linkage/arms.  Anything you can see that comes off - remove and drill.  I love swarf!  Incidentally ally floorpan bolts save 324grams.  Drilled my headrest and seat bases.  Still looking to have the rear axle nuts made in titanium.  Also the rocker adjustment nuts.  Even bought two differing sets of front lights to choose the lightest chrome surrounds.  There's loads more but I'll be here forever and I need my pillar drill time.  Overall the car still looks roughly stock and not cut out at all.  Oh and I must mention aircraft wiring, much lighter.

Cheers ben.  By the way do you have any Scat stickers at SSP - small 2 inch?

My top 4 easy choices would be:

1)glass.  get rid.  Super duper heavy
2)wings - 22lb to save using fibreglass.  Also remove running boards and bumpers.
3)rotational weight - swap the wheels, brakes, calipers, studs, washers, nuts, tyres all for the lightest
4)battery/starter/alternator

Good thread :)

I lightened up the metal behind the rear side panels, just fit one up and you can see there is a lot of metal that can be removed. Put the panel back on, and no one is the wiser 8)
Remove the center rear seat belt thing that is welded to the underside of the parcel shelf. Heavy.
Every last thing associated with the heater.
Use fiberglass, plexiglass, and aluminium liberally.

The goal for my '67 is to have it down to 1500lbs (682kg) with me in it, race weight... and NOT have it look like it has been gutted like a fish.

do you have pictures of this car

(http://www.offdrc.co.uk/images/gallery_2007_001/photo_2007_001_085.jpg)

Beardie - thank you for sharing! I have only heard about your car and your work but unfortunately never seen it live. I hope I soon will have the pleasure.

590kg - well, got something to reach for there that`s for sure.

BB

this is a good post.
Weren't the original cal-look cars stripped of any superfulous fat? Huh Sarge? HUH?
I see the cars that grace magazines as cal-look cars as being too complex and too fat. I think guys building cars here in the States need to work on not hanging so much "stuff" on their cars, and not yet even worry about gun-drilling and shaving weight here and there. My own car is too heavy in my opinion. I don't know what it weighs, but I have not paid enough attention to saving weight when modifying the car. Oil system alone on my car, between the big Berg sump (that I would run, no matter the weight, for engine's well being), the heavy cloth-covered-stainless braid AN-8 oil lines, the steel AN-8 fittings, the heavy Setrab cooler... I imagine it all adds 30-40lbs to the curb weight (dry). Heavy fake BRM's, heavy 205/65 tires, Berg traction bar, Berg intermediate mount, stock drums.... in an effort to make things stay put it's going to add weight. Unless I was to think before I just bolted parts on "out of the box"
If I were to re-do another hotrod approach on a Bug, I'd look for even the small places to save lbs. Take a look at Ferdinand Piech's campaign in the 1960's with the Porsche cars. Every piece of the racecars had a head engineer that was responsible to trim as much fat as they could, without jeopardizing durability. Look at a 1960's Porsche racecar.... holes everywhere. Even the ignition key. Piech demanded that the wiper switch on the dash of the 907 have its retaining nut machined down thickness wise to save 1/2 a gram or something. They resorted to beryllium for the brake rotors (ungodly expensive and dust was deadly poisonous).
Instead of impressing everybody with how much "stuff" can be hung on a car, why not impress everyone with how quickly the car goes, stops, corners, and how long your parts live?

here are some ideas aside from what has been mentioned..

if bumpers are necessary or "desired" drill lower brakcets (On 1967 & down)
replace steel girder of Berg traction bar with aluminum oval tube
deburr engine case(inside and out) and inside rocker chambers of heads and trans case
minimize wiring in car, replace ignition switch with simple on-off rocker for power and one way rocker for starter
deburr and trim rear lower shock boss on swingaxle tube
deburr and polish trailing arms (front suspension) and pitman arm off steering box
gundrill brake drums i.e. Ron Lummus
open backing plates up
gundrill pedal stems on brake and clutch, reduce square area of pedal pad section
gundrill face of accelerator pedal
gundrill parking brake, door check rods
gundrill front hood hinges, delete springs, delete decklid spring, remove "louvered" area inside rear air grill
gundrill metal "body" portion of brake shoes
gundrill all wiper motor and linkage mounts
lightest wheels that are legal for street
gundrill carb linkage bracket (if applicable) or use lighter push/pull, drill coil bracket, alternator strap, alternator pulley
manicure intake manifolds to minimum material up near carbs
17mm wrench size 12mm nuts in place of 19mm in all places applicable.
11mm wrench size 8mm nuts in place of 13mm in all places applicable
more to think about later.

As you have all obviously realised weight saving is certainly a way of making the most of your engine and gearbox combination, but you might just like to look at the cost benefits once you have done the obvious ditching interior, bumpers, glass and had some fun with some hole saws. Say your car weighs 1600lbs and you have 160hp that’s 10lbs per 1hp. 10lbs is easy to find when you're unbolting bumpers and the like but when your into one off fabrication of parts and exotic metals like mag, titanium, inconol and even ali its very easy to run up some nasty bills. Needless to say if you’re really going for it and budget is not an issue get stuck in to the hp chase and the weight loss program but I think there comes a point financially where you want to go back to the motor rather than the weight of the car.

Also one other thing weight loss is great for performance but its not so good for our little rear engine cars when your going through the traps at 110-120 mph on a breesy day so a bit of weight to keep the bloody things on the ground is not all bad in my book and that is coming from some one who has spent far to much money on reducing the weight of the car.

Like most things in life it’s about striking a balance, but don't let me dampen your enthusiasm with the hole saws!

Peter

I crew chief for the BAD BEHAVIOR S/G car of Daniel Kurtzman and that car weighs 1460lbs no driver. It is all steel.  We ditched the glass and went plexi, run ercos, aluminum beam, 1 race trim seat, 5 point lummus 4130 bar, engine has two small squirrel fans and a small alternator. Door panels are aluminum. Headlights removed replaced with plexi covers. Gas tank removed replaced with 1 gal. fuel cell. Thats about it.
   



                     

I agree with you, that is why my car will have the trans raised slightly to get the car (and what little weight there is) down a little more... hopefully it will be stable enough for mid to high 11's... ;)

On my old Oval I managed to shave off about 30 lb per door by ditching the winder mechanisms and making a simple hand slider mech. The glass was ditched for perspex and the quarter lights were also ditched in favour of perspex. I ground the chrome off the door handles so they were bare aluminium and polished them to look chrome. I then took the hole saw to all of the metal hidden behind the door panel. The difference in before and after was incredible. Picking up a complete stock door requires strength/hernia op. Post diet, the door could be picked up with one hand 8)

On the plus side though as you add power the advantage then becomes that you can then put weight back in where you need it, mainly further forward and lower. Getting the weight out of the top of the car like the glass can only help top end stability. That said it would be a shame having bought all that titanium to bolt lead bars to the pan, drilled or not...

(http://www.offdrc.co.uk/images/gallery_2007_001/photo_2007_001_004_sm.jpg)  (http://www.offdrc.co.uk/images/gallery_2007_008/photo_2007_008_023_sm.jpg)

Wise words mate.  I only have 170 horse or so so didn't mind going a bit lighter.  If I had double that i would be more reluctant to take weight off.  So far I've only reached 113mph and the car has always felt very safe and secure at the top end.  Still it has been a bit pricey - however there's nothing like adding weight to the mix whenever someone needs to replace a worn part or needs a different spec item.  Definitely worth thinking about eg if you need new shocks - make sure the ones you buy are lighter than the ones you have!  Do that every time and suddenly your ETs are improving bit by bit.

And congrats on the 12.1!

aluminium cylinders would certainly make for a lighter engine...


by the way, didn't some of the early short wheel base 911s have a  ballast in the nose for better weight distribution?

Hi,

I really like this thread. Weight is a key to why our beloved cars are behaving the way they do. Both how the handle on start and how they can perform so good with "limited" horsepower.
I got in to VWs just for this reason. Me and my partner were working building lightweight aircrafts.
With the flight designers and engineers and material available, we decided to build a much lighter version of car than at the the time very popular Volvo dragsters. They started at 450 kg.
We did not decide immediatley on engine until we saw this wheel lifting 1958 beetle called St Moritz Fashion in 1976.
Now we had a clear target with the lightest possible engine....story goes on. Anyway,the car weighed 300 kg and had almost as much HP as the Volvos.
So what am I saying? I love this focus on weight.

BUT in class racing the safety is well defined and not so when you drive on the streets or not so defined like Blackraces.
It actually hurts me to see so many cars without even a roll bar.
That is to me a minimum if you dragrace.
If you also drive the streets with a potential car, you need a cage and linked up to your front end.
Please consider it seriously.

Also be very careful with drilling a little bit too much or lightening anything that could be safety related.

That is not my "just my few cents" but rather input on a much higher value. Your well being.
 

I think that's with the driver.

Mark told me that he spent some time at the auto parts store looking at headlights.  He found some that were 100% plastic.  Very difficult to find.  I've only found 1 plastic H4 over the years, and it was that odd French yellow.

Aluminium.

I've replace the bumpers with ally tbars, then cut off the excess ally past the mounting holes, then drilled the inner flat bar, then hollowed out the actual tbar from the bottom up.  Finally mounted with just one shortened ally bolt and smaller ally washer

Saving weight has been a priority in my car too. I have only the bare necessities. It dose not looked cut up though. I left all original glass too. I did weight it all and came up with 130-140lbs I took out of it. Should be good for 2 tenths or so. We always talk about the "car" weight, well look at the beer drinkin' drivers!!! The car doesn’t go down the track by itself. I have been trying to lean down myself. Lost 20lb over a year or so. If you want your fast time slip, I vote John Rayburn as your driver!! Sorry John I couldn't resist. Casey

incidentally the lightest starter motor I could find was the Brise Electrical porsche 911 based one, 2,577 grams.  It's a great starter too.  Significantly lighter than the Hi-Torque and more reliable.

Also I saved 8 grams by hollowing out the 3 pinch bolts on the transmission plus I cut and dished the heads on them.  Coudn't find them in Titanium as they were a weird fit.

ERCO race weight wheels are 2 pounds lighter each than original BRMs.  And I shaved a few grams on the tyre valve using ally bolt in valves.  M&H slicks were miles lighter than Phoenix.

Varley Red Top 15 is the lightest battery I could find but still weighs in at a hefty 10 pounds.  AVO ally shocks are each over a pound lighter than Konis.

Still need to single skin my glovebox lid and rear valence.  Then replace the braided fuel line with solid.

Other tips use light weight oil like a 5W, much lighter over 6 litres.  Anyone know the relative weight saving of Nitrogen in the tyres over normal air?

 >:(

You're a sick man Phil ;D

This is good stuff! I'm lightening mine but on the less extreme side of things and going with a bit more glass fibre body parts! I have a bonnet, wings, carbon running boards, should be ordering doors this week and I'm having a decklid made also based on my 59 year decklid!

I've got lightweight strange brakes all round with rear Erco's and Weld fronts with M&H slicks/front runners and I'm having the seats built into the cage.

Also the hosing I have is the lightweight cloth braid from Jegs, it has all the same 'properties' as the stainless steel braided hose but much lighter!!

Steve

Start off with a late base model  European 1200 circa 1970-73
No body trim, single horn grill, No padding on the dash or steering, Minimal carpet and sound deadening just rubber mats,  Minimal instruments ie no fuel gauge or dash grill, minimal  headlining no window trim, thinner steel  construction to the body shell. I think its several kg lighter ( i think i’ve read 50kg) than an early 60’s late 50’s car and short panels ie less weight

Not too bad a start.  ;)

then you guys can get all anal about weight saving form there  ::)

Hey Phil/Pete if you ever go for a Chevy journal crank on a future engine, let me know as I have a set of Jet titanium conrods stashed away for a rainy day. They weigh in less than 2/3 of the weight of H-beams! 8)

Interesting read!!  I've not really looked too far into weight saving with my car yet....there are some good tips here :)


Nice idea!  Nitrogen is slightly lighter than air, but not by much.....something like an 8% saving.....i've read somewhere pro cyclists use nitrogen in their tyres as being an inert gas it's not affected by temperature change like air is.  I wonder if drag racers anywhere do this too to ensure consistency?!?

Something like Helium would give good weight savings, problem is it's so light it would probably escape through the sidewalls!!

Nitrogen is (somewhat) widely used for tires. It helps the rubber last longer, and doesnt fluctuate like normal compressed air does.

That is a myth.  Nitrogen behaves according to the Ideal Gas Law, just the same as air, which, by the way is 78% Nitrogen.  There is no weight savings by replacing the 21% Oxygen with Nitrogen.

The only advantage I can think of is that filling from a bottle rules out impurities/contaminants. I think old lower mileage tyres sometimes suffer from rotting from the inside out which is probably due to moisture in the 'air'. It might go some way to preserving older rarer tyres.

 :)

nice pics of tranny stuff......I just drilled my clutch cable conduit which is also well over engineered.  It's amazing how so many of the original VW parts were overengineered for strength.  May try to get some pics on here if I get the time

Please do.

BB

                                                 I'll drive!!

I'm lighter than you!  >:( ;D

any hardware could be changed to AN washer's and jet nuts  and if there's no budget get them in titanium

What is that part?

I also drilled a 9/16" dia hole through the center of the clutch cross shaft in the gearbox.  It is the late 20mm one.  That, plus the holes in 1st gear idler above was good for ¼kg.

Here is the mid mount I made out of aluminium.  Almost 2kg less than the iron one Berg makes.  I could drill it for even more weight reduction.

What is that part?

[/quote]

It's the metal bracket that sits on the side of the gearbox that the clutch cable passes through before it reaches the clutch release arm.

[Here is the mid mount I made out of aluminium.  Almost 2kg less than the iron one Berg makes.  I could drill it for even more weight reduction.
[/quote]

That is very cool!!!!  I spent a full day drilling my Berg mid mount - around 100 holes.  Took the weight down from 2.3kg to 1.9kg.  But it's still MEGA heavy - that's like carrying nearly another starter motor.  I use the Berg solid ally buffers, again I drilled vertically through them to take out some of the metal.  That ally mid mount is a work of art - do you know the weight?  The only concern I would have is that I thought this part would be subject to pretty big forces on launch so was concerned about ally.  I have an ally front mount which was a pound lighter than the grey rubber VW one and an ally rear mount but no ally mid mount!  Have you launched yet with this mount?

I'll try to get photos this weekend.

Phil

Careful Bruce, I made a snubber bar (Mohr midmount style) out of aluminum.  I had to remove it a few months ago and revert back to good 'ol steel because the aluminum one was starting to look like a boomerang.  This was with 170hp and radial tires in a daily driver.

P.S. shame on you people for even talking about Berg products in a thread about lightweight parts.  The only lightweight stuff Berg ever made was made a long, long time ago.

Steve, got a pic of the mount you made?

The one I posted a pic of is not the one in my car.  That one is for a 4 gear.  I also made a version of the same mount for a 5 gear.  Since I have a 5 in my car, that is the mount I used.

That brings up the heftyweight Berg 5 parts.  Weilding the grinder, I took out almost 1/3 of a kilo off the 5 speed gear carrier and the 5 speed nose cone.

Phil, the solid aluminium spacers Berg sells are really dumb.  There's no need to make them from 2" dia Al.  1" bar stock drilled to clear the M10 bolt will work fine.

i drilled holes in my pan of my first dragbeetle 8)

this is sooo cool. i have a type3 and that car is sooo heavy, but i plan on saving some weight as well. clean all arches and drill holes and finish it properly. amausing what crap and excess weight a car gathers over the years. it is not a racecar though so it will still be heavy. but it is a winwin situation as long as safety is not conserned.

and i started jogging. that should get me 8 kilos lighter, if i can keep it up...

My homage to Mark Herbert and the SSB was to get a pair of those cheap plastic Rossi headlights, shocking quality but very light :)

Welcome to the lounge Uncle Mark ;D

some ideas here ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XUKOUbp_PA

Aloha ;D

(http://)(http://)

That is very cool!!!!  I spent a full day drilling my Berg mid mount - around 100 holes.  Took the weight down from 2.3kg to 1.9kg.  But it's still MEGA heavy - that's like carrying nearly another starter motor.  I use the Berg solid ally buffers, again I drilled vertically through them to take out some of the metal.  That ally mid mount is a work of art - do you know the weight?  The only concern I would have is that I thought this part would be subject to pretty big forces on launch so was concerned about ally.  I have an ally front mount which was a pound lighter than the grey rubber VW one and an ally rear mount but no ally mid mount!  Have you launched yet with this mount?

I'll try to get photos this weekend.

Phil
[/quote]

all the above are some shots of my car as promised.  I'm rubbish with a camera sorry!

Phil

phil nice pics mate.this is  lightening to the obsessive.changing the subject a little but are you racing at garys picnic at the end of the month at shakey?

Everybody has aluminium caster shims, right?  How about these ones made from Magnesium!

Don't forget to drill your heavy aluminium caster shims.

yes I am aiming to be at Gary's Picnic, my tow vehicle is being restored at present, we are on for meeting the deadline but you never know with vans.  Keeping everything crossed - will know better nearer the day.  Bug's ready to roll anyhow.
Cheers
Phil

How could I have been so stupid?  I have triple shims and they are all hole free.  An obvious thing to do!  Definitely got to be worth at least 40 grams if not more, on 6 total plates of ally.

I can see you have a hole drillled the hand brake handle, but have you shortened it? It is at least 1" too long! Just cut it off and re-tread the brake release button wire.

do you guys skip breakfast or eating as well before you race?
it might save you a few 100 g as well :)
another idea is to clip your nails, cut your hair, go running in 40deg so you lose a few litres of water, it will save a few grams too, maybe even more,
or dont eat at all, the money you save you can put in your car

Super cool stuff Beardie wierdie... ! Truly inspiring stuff!!
Have you thought about giving blood the day before? ;)

Bruce, who made those caster shims?

Pretty cool stuff here guys!

the reason i asked phil is id like a OFF hoody please ;)

a medium one please.

Don't know for sure.  I found them at a swap meet years before any aftermarket co offered the Al ones.  I think the guy said they were genuine VW.  I heard it was a fix VW did for cars that didn't meet the caster spec.

Have you guys removed the inspection cover plate under the back seat?  That's ¼ kilo there.  How about replacing the steel one at the front frame head with a thin Al one?

What are these 3 "pinch bolts"? 
How about changing the large M18 bolts in the ends of the frame horns for the later bolts?  The early ones have a 27mm head, late ones have a 20mm head. The late ones must be lighter.

The viscosity of oil does not relate to the density.  IOW, a liter of  SAE 5wt. oil isn't lighter than a liter of SAE 50wt.


Stock VW glass is 5mm thick.  If you take all the side glass into a glass shop, you can get them to make you new ones from 4mm glass.  20% lighter!  Or if you have big cajones, go for 3mm glass.

Check their length first.  I have seen aftermarket ones that are unnecessarily long.  The Mg ones above are 60mm long.  Ya think I should drill the Mg ones? :P

[Check their length first.  I have seen aftermarket ones that are unnecessarily long.  The Mg ones above are 60mm long.  Ya think I should drill the Mg ones? :P
[/quote]

Oh yeah get the drill on 'em!  Tucked away they are never seen so it's gotta be done :)

Not a problem, I'll check our stocks to make sure we have the size......

How about changing the large M18 bolts in the ends of the frame horns for the later bolts?  The early ones have a 27mm head, late ones have a 20mm head. The late ones must be lighter.

V. useful...although I was planning on getting them made in titanium but in the meantime I'll search out a late late set

I find a nine inch grinder comes in handy when I am after losing an ounce or two... ;D

(http://img110.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/05/14/grind-fg87bm30.jpeg)

doe's anybody still acid etch body's anymore

Awesome thread guys - love the work you've done on the bug Phil - would love to see some more pictures if you have any. Think I might invest in a heavy duty drill & bit set... I'm already on a diet to get myself down in weight before Bug Jam ( my wife refers to the diet as "Operation Race Weight"!) so think I might allow myself a few hot dogs this weekend and resign myself to lightening the bug instead.

Cheers matey :)  I use screwfix drills in packets of 5 (titanium coated) in steps of 0.5mm:

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=MLP0SYNLWHASECSTHZOCFFY?_dyncharset=UTF-8&fh_search=erbauer+HSS+drill+pack

I went from 2mm to 10mm in half mm then up to 20mm in 1mm increments.  Two packets of most meant I started with around 300 drills.  All my holes I start with 2mm, drill all holes and then work upwards to 2.5mm etc.  I'm also too fat but I'm last on the list for lightening!  It will happen eventually.....

In future when I drill stuff I'll take photos of it all off the car so I can post some better shots.

Cheers
Phil

Really awesome thread !!!
Such a nice job Phil !!!

I had my doors done, but that's because even with paint stripper I couldn't get rid of the horrible 80's graphics! :D

Sorry thought you were all a bit anal but I can see now how adictive this could be  8)

its all about one thing! makin it run faster! it can get obsessive as pete has already said.there comes a time when going back to the motor is imminent!

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5293.0;attach=16667;image)

Those holes look familiar, almost like they were done by someone else!!! ;) ;)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=616617

Nikasyl Barrels

And of course slipper skirt pistons will help too! ;)

very cool thread...gave me all kinds of ideas....but first...need to go to jenny craig..could drop 40lbs there alone ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How about having hefty sex before youre run ?  ;)

nah, you want to sleep after sex, not dragrace

What's that- getting it on with a fat chick, or using a trash bag as a contraceptive?

...guess it beats "wimpy wimpy wimpy"...

I've recently discovered a new metal to use.  I call it DRILLIUM  :)

The arm in the middle is what I started with at 143g.  On the left it's now 76g.  I showed it to one of the engineers at work and he agreed it's strength hasn't been compromised given the meager forces applied to it.  The arm on the right is probably what most early cars have.  It weighs in at 102g.

how much wieght would be saved by drilling a standard 56 door like that ??

please dont mention SEX and DRAGRACE in the same sentence !!!

if my girl reads this she'll be making all kind of jokes about my 10 second passes  ::)

10 second passes, you can't blame her Ian. ;D

10 seconds, impressive, most impressive,  ;D, but do you count your aftersex cigarette in those 10 as well?  ;D ;D

You wait till AFTERWARDS for a cigarette nicolas? Wow, what a considerate guy... ;) My wife has to hold an ashtray the whole way through. hahah j/k

ashtray ??
thats what belly-buttons are for !!! :D

how about this, weight saving fans ;D

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/medium/2155555.jpg)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=635629

 :o :o :o

Would the light weight Porsche wheel nuts (aluminium?) work with any other aftermarket wheels? Or is it possible to buy similar light weight nuts from another source that may be used? Anyone know the weight difference per full set, Stock vs. 911 type?

Nicolas gives me yesterday a flywheel he previously use on his fastback.
I weigh it ant I found an impressive 3.6kg / 7.4lb  :o :o

porsche nuts are 14x1.5mm radiused so they will work with most 4 lug porsche wheels and maybe Erco's with the washers, you could fit them to 5 lug if you opened up the holes on the drums and fitted press in studs ;D

i thoiught they vwere bigger than that ??
i also thought they had a "balanced" locking nut , and a RED-DOT opposite the valve stem ;D

these bearing caps should save a bit of weight ;D

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=400954

I had a customer a while back with a hill climb car who had spent weeks using a hole saw to lighten everything inside his car. He had done a really nice job, and was sure he could "feel" the difference it had made. Was"nt untill he had left and i started putting in a new lighter cage that i discovered that he had left at least 90% of the cut out metal in the bottom of the 1/4 panels and doors!!!

 Time well spent!!

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Not weighed it yet but this lot must be worth something :o

I think it is at least half a second lying in the trailer :P

Michael

Thats gotta be at least 50 kg worth of premium German steel there. :)

yip .
worth a fortune on thesamba

:D

 ;D

Just had a call from a friend of mine who can get floor pan washers made in 2.5mm thick Aluminium, ball park figure is £2 each bit if I can get enough interest/orders that price will come down ;D PM me if you're interested ;D

saves around half a kilo if you do all 24, made a set last year.

Same as going for a long walk the day before the race, or a long session in the bed.. and it`s cheaper too.... depending if you had to pay for the company in your bed.

If you do both that's a kilo ;D

or if youre fat and lazy like me , you can buy the lightwieght washers then you can eat a big beef buritto while waiting on the start line and not worry about putting any wieght on  ;D

You could eat the Burrito loaded with Chilli, take a crap and save even more ;D

Think I'm gonna eat a chilli burrito,during sex,while sitting on a toilet that I had to walk 5 miles to,before each race. ;D Oh and I am interested in the ally washers dude,need to count how many I will need.

Thought you might so I've already ordered yours(and i've got a source for ali bolts too), you need all the help you can get :P

Checked on Etos and you need 18 for a late car, your oval might need more or less................or the same

I just used normal steel washers, they might even weigh less the the original style washers in aluminium.

Is there a way to drill, seal, inject it with Helium, so i can loose the springs and hinges?

:o Easy now cheeky lad or Uncle Buck might have to fetch the hatchet from the trunk of the car  ;D

A drill would be more practical, what with this being the weight saving thread, phil west can hook you up with the best drill bits ;D

(http://home.cogeco.net/~vip/unclebuck.jpg)

 ;D ;D ;D

This weekend, I have cut out the doorstopper thing in my A-pillar. In my case it was more form over function, as I probably added more weight in welding rod than I took out. But there is some gain to be made if you want to. In the mousetrap behind the A pillar, in the trunk, there is a really bulky plate to prevent your door from pulling the doorstopper all the way through your pannelling. It is very hard to reach (hence I did not take it out, remember form over function here  ;D) but there might be a massive 250gr. x 2 to be saved.

Alright guys, get your asses out of the pub and into your lockup.  A little bit of time every few days will produce results.  Here's the latest results from the pillar drill:

This is the bracket that bolts to the gearbox's side cover to hold the rear end of the bowden tube.  The stock steel one on the left is about 60% of what it used to weigh.  Next, I bent up one out of ally.  It's less than half the stock one's weight even without all the holes it's gonna get.

Here's my latest weight savings:

Autometer guages - drilled the ally mounts that they come with - 10 grams
Drivers side heater tube behind seat - 300 grams (other side still to do)
Single skin glovebox lid and make ally hinges - 250 grams
Ashtray - remove the box and leave the fascia - 289 grams
Solid ally fuel line and fiitings (from braided) - 489 grams
carpet tucked into sill plate - 310 grams per side
Wiring - switch to thinwall and remove headlight/indicator harnesses - 600 grams
Titanium plates and nuts for Seat harnesses under floorpan - 100 grams
Ally bolts on the back of the speedo, glovebox - 25 grams

Still to do - lighten door hinges and front and rear bumper mounts.  Disassemble raptgop and lighten.  Swap Berg solid iron deep sump for EMPI thin quality light one.  Get rid of that 4,750gram windscreen.  That's about all I'll have time for.

Car down to 1,332lbs/605.5kg including windscreen swap which gives me another 6kg to break the magic 600kg barrier.
Cheers
Phil

Good work Beardie 8)

Soon you will be able run a 12 with just a 30 hp motor! So, with a stock Bug weighing in at around 750 kilos you have managed to shed around 150 and without any drastic body mods. That's absolutely fantastic. I wonder what Mr. Shattock's car is weighing in at now? Pete? You broken the 600 kg barrier yet?

Pete's is a Streetcar :P

yep she still looks pretty much bone stock bodywork-wise, not a bad weight loss considering I've got that goliath weight Quaife in there.  I've pretty much not cut any of the original metalwork on the car and she's still got a stock beam up front.  One day I hope I might get it back up to street legal status - will add back a fair few pounds but would be nice to see what she can do running wipers and a rear view mirror!  Of course I'm still running the street motor, there's a possible normally aspirated 10 if I ever stop drilling and put the right lump in!

If the gearbox is ever apart, have the flange of the Q cut down like a cloverleaf.  Dead weight and rotating.

With no headlight wiring?!

 ;D :o :o :o

? don't get it, Pete's has headlight wiring,wipers and is 'kin quick for a 1776 street car ;D

Have I got the wrong end of the stcik from the above Ben? WOuldn't be the first time!

That ain't in dispute, +its kool & the gang too!

This might be a worthwhile addition... or should that be 'subtraction'?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=716893 (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=716893)

Where are people getting their Aluminium bolts from in the UK ?

http://www.nylonalloys.co.uk/cgi-bin/shop/nylon-alloys-categories.pl?ALUMINIUM|METRIC| it's worth searching through there bolts, some that are slightly longer work out cheaper ;D

Cheers ben.

Any news on the Aluminium floor pan washers ?

I'll speak to him tomorrow ;D

Also: www.tastynuts.co.uk

Heres one for the serious only :o

I can see Phill buying some more drill bits now!   lol

Hi Guys,

Would be great I f somebody would put together a complete package set to purchase!
I am some what of an idiot when it comes to srews and sizes I need to order  ???

Cheers anyway Stephan  :)

Actually I picked up another 170 drill bits last week!

Drilled springplates?  Open end to torsion bar covers so they can just fall out?  Man this is really scary stuff.  Not for me!

Cheers
Phil

Phil,there were factory open ended covers on later cars so that would be no problem


cheers richie

Ballast?  ???

Whoops! Soz not familiar with all the modern VWs and their new fangled high tech modifications  ;)

Titanium axle nuts.  58 gms rotational weight saved.

Cheers
Phil

...and when everything else has been done, don't forget to delete your text-messages on your cellularphone.... ;D

Phil,I cant believe you arent using open ended wheel nuts :o :o  You need to sort that out double quick ;) :D  Cant imagine how much all this Ti stuff is costing


cheers richie

Very nice phil, looks like you've got 3 grams of pain on those drums, another 6 grams of rotational weight you could lose ;D

... and to go to the toilet before a run ! :D ;D

What's with the steel split pin?

Don't worry, it's made of 'Doesn'tweighadamnium'...

Yep just temporary, I think I can knock some up in Titanium......

Actually they are Porsche ally nuts so really light - wouldn't trust open ended ally surely there's not enough strenth in it.  Otherwise I'd have some!

The ol' drilled pedals routine.

Weight before - 2183gm
Weight after - 1938gm

Saving: 245gm.

Although I did hack off at least 55gms of underseal from around the pedal area so I'm down about 300gm.

Weight loss does include a couple of replacement titanium bolts.

Cheers
Phil

couple of other pics of the arms and the replacement Titanium plate I made

just obsessive phil ;D what more can i say ;)

I would have drilled much bigger holes in the clutch pedal shaft.  The forces on it are nowhere near what the brake pedal gets.
Anyone know what the late pedal assembly weighs?

You could have made a bigger slot in that titanium plate dude  ;) :)

I spent quite a bit of time BSing with Mark about lightweight stuff.  I think he'd be all over this part (123g):
Anyone know what the stock one weighs?

That's a fair point.  I've taken more out of it now.

Actually I've jumped the gun getting the pics, pretty sure I'm going to have to in order to get the adjustment on the pedal stoppers.  It's just a bit of a bugger to grind out.  Right now I have pillar driller's elbow and can look forward to titanium filer's shoulder!

 :D :D :D

Wow! I just love the Ti axle nuts 8). How much for a pair please Phil?

They are a bit sexy I admit!  Sorry, Pete's machinist had some leftover Ti so ours were a one off.....

All this drilling makes me want to get another piercing...
http://www.myinterestingfiles.com/images/2008/03/extremebodypiercing_8.jpg

thats way to heavy... even if they are titanium

I was talking to Eric Ballard last week and asked him about his lightweight car he ran in the late 80s.
He said he removed all the double skinning from the inside, such that you couldn't tell from outside that the car had been gutted.

In his gearbox, he lightened many of the parts.  He core drilled the mainshaft (but not past 2nd gear)  He said he removed over 1.1 kg from the ring gear alone.  The gears were narrowed and drilled.  I think he said the axles were drilled too.

The end result was that he had a drag car that weighed under 450kg without driver.  And that included a roll cage and wheelie bars.  And all steel body panels.

Very imppressive stuff.

we need a seperate post off this cars and even more details ;D

I'm sure if we ask Russell nicely he will post up some pictures, but under 1000lbs is seriously light for a floor pan car even when it is a racecar. I've seen some pictures of the spring plates on it, maybe even earlier on this thread (I can't remember much these days), but there was a lot of light weight air where steel used to be!

The challenge is out! Has anyone got a steel beetle ready to race on a floor plan that’s under 1000lbs / 450kg (no driver) other than Russell.

As luck would have it I’m just off to the machine shop now, to swap a steel bracket for an aluminum one but I think it might take something a bit more drastic for me to be in the running!

I use to have a car that was about 1100lbs and I can tell you it was a handfull to drive.  1000lb car will will surely be worst. Gotta have big balls for sure. ;D

oles pink panther car must be getting close to a 1000lb.i know its not all steel and a racecar but sure is cut away ;)

Oh yeah its Cut up - you gotta love the inner heater channel removal ;) :)

Why not inflate the tires with Helium and make the whole car lighter !?!
 ;D

Does anybody know what a stock glass headlight lens weighs?  Does anyone know where to buy these plastic headlight lenses?

Not VW, but you get the point.

Have just started to save weight on my bug, the cheapest and easiest way seems ot put myself on a diet.  Therefore no coke or chocolate for me until i reach my target weight and save 15kg!

I would like to get my hands on a pair of those 8)

500g ;D

See, now I want a pair even more ;D

I know where you can get a pair of plastic lenses in French yellow.  LMK and I'll set it up. 
Are the yellow headlights still legal in France?

Hey Bruce

Many thanks for the offer.

Unfortunately I live in the UK,where you cant use yellow lenses :(,I am after some clear one's like yourself.

I will give you a shout if I manage to source some clear lenses over here ;)

I saw this thread on the samba about plastic lenses and thought people hire might bee interested..
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=359759 (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=359759)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_tmtBdtv1P1I/Sh91-Waf4AI/AAAAAAAAHtE/KbH9Opp3YCU/s576/lens.jpg)

These look very promising,gonna keep my eye on this to see if they go into production.

start with a late car and buy some carbon stuff by remmele-motorsport :)

Will you please stop the cursing! ;D

Michael

and you can give the look.
look at this car: http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,1300.390.html
lates are great, and carbon can be painted you know... ;D

I was looking at the trans filler plug a few days ago and noticed a couple of variations.
The one on the right should be lighter, right?  Nope, on the other side, the hex socket is deeper on the middle one.  Also, I've always observed the plug is longer than it needs to be, extending past the inner wall, with some still sticking out the outside.
So a few minutes on the grinder gets you the left one.
Right one : 32g
Middle : 28g
Left one: 18g
Not much, but every bit helps.

I believe Simon at Paintbox ( 01376-573463) is producing these but maybe Phil can confirm this.  Bernie

Yes the plastic lenses are currently being manufactured and will be available for purchase soon.

Here's my latest pillar drill exploits.  Weight before = 473gm.  Weight after = 247gm.  Total saving for 2 hinges = 452gm = near enough a pound off.

There's more to drill out of them but I'll bang 'em on for a bit just to check operation.

Cheers

Looks good, great idea! :) Why not drill much larger holes though? To retain strength you could dimple die them.
Do you have a goal weight in mind?

Yes very much I am aiming for sub 600kg 1320lb.  Was weighed last week at 1,333lb.  Which is now 1,332lb!  So am looking for another 12lb to hit my mark.

Found another 2lb in changing the Berg sump to an EMPI one - don't have precise figures for that yet but that leaves me 10lb.

Cheers
Phil

Is there anbody who can bring a set for me to EBI3?

Michael

hello,

phil your idea is very cool, another part to save weight is the linkage. build my one on in alloy, the heaviest parts are the bearings, but it works great. my car is a street-car but i really like to save some weight.

dirk

Have you drilled holes in the hood prop linkage bits?

yes

Mine are the hollow ones

I drilled mine.  I'd like to get Ti tube to make my own....

I was watching something about F1 the other day - How about making your header from "INKANEL" F1 exhaust tubing VERY LIGHT, A Bitch to work though apparently  :)

Why can't you make a muffler from aluminium?

40gm saved.  Cheers Phil

Phil, the edges of the holes look rather sharp - how about counter-sinking them? Gets rid of a stress riser (not that round holes have stress risers, but you know what I mean!), removes sharp edges and also loses a bit more material!  ;)

sorry mate no can do.  Once the workshop reaches 40C / 104F  - I'm outta there!

Woo! That's even hotter than my classroom! I just had one of the Year 10 lads nearly faint with the heat! :o

(http://www.jmrmfg.com/images/dimple.jpg)

Lightweight!  ;D

Crack a cold beer and carry on!   lol

is it me, or does the crank gear look like it's been machined down?

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/2716402.jpg)

looks like it, i think i saw the same thing done in Geer's pro-stock? motor in one of those hot vw's issues (crank gear narrowed to match that on the cam). Any benefit to doing this?

You may have already spotted these Phil/Pete, but if not, they sound mighty cool for your rides...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=745441

I've been doing my best to ignore the weight saving thing, as best as an addict can anyway, so I don't need any encouragement from you to get distracted! Having said that they do look nice.......

But I'm being good and concentrating on getting the car running again, which all being well should be in the next 2-3 weeks to get some miles on the motor on the street to check all is well before getting to the track at the end of the month, and of course popping round to yours for a brew! Can't wait to see your car for real and better still see it go!

Fingers crossed for good weather!

I'm after a tiny ally drag button bottom pulley as light as possible to replace my current one weighing in at 2,722gms.

Anything available in the UK?  I like the look of the CE one in the US but it's not in stock.

That's big weight right at the back of the car...

Cheers
Phil

Have you thought about rear disk brakes Phil? I know it's quite a costly thing to change but there is huge weight losses to be had removing the drums!

gotta be wide 5.  Don't know of any complete rear disc setup in wide 5 that's lighter than stock except maybe the Neal and we're talking mega money

Is that because of your existing wheel set-up your looking for wide 5? You could always ask Jack to make a wide 5 hub to fit the lightweight brakes! Out of interest how much are the neal brakes? The Jaycee ones are about $1k a set

Partly due to the existing wheels which fit really well and also I just like the wide 5 look.

Reckon a set of those lighweight ones from Jack would be lovely in a wide 5.  They would be a fair bit heavier than yours due to the bigger hub.  As long as the offset was the same and he could supply 14mm studs they would be v. nice!

Hi all,

Just had go at making some bonnet hinges having been inspired by young Phil, 152grams each, total saving of 1.4kg for the pair,

andy

Very nice but won't they show the rest of the car up!!!!! :-)

well you have to start somewhere, and at least mine runs... ::)

could you make mesome herr marriot, i'll hold your torsion bars to ransom ;D

So does mine now ;)

What's so odd about those?  ???

 :P

Impressed! Especially as you have access to an aluminium spot welder 8) Luxury! Very nice indeed Andy 8) 8) 8)

Those look very nice!!

Wow, you've lowered the bar by a 100g over Phil's hinges.

Phil,
have a look at this pic of your car you posted from the previous page:

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5293.0;attach=31521;image

What's with the extra long fender bolts?  One that's 10mm shorter will do.  Then you can also use aluminium bolts.  Or even lighter still is nylon bolts.

It's all the same.  The spot welder doesn't know the metal between the jaws.

The bolts are already ally - they are the shortest I could find (15mm thread length) but I you know of a UK supplier that will do a 10mm M8 in the potassium bichromate I'm up for it.  I suppose it would save me about 1gram per bolt.  To compensate I only use every other bolt in the wings and removed the wing beading.

Yep that's 95 grams less - from thinner material and the far bigger holes.  Since fitting mine they are fairly wobbly side to side with the bonnet up so Andy's are going to be really unstable if there's a gust of wind.  That said I will start to make the holes bigger.

Bruce is right, a spot welder is a spot welder, the only difference is that you need plenty of grunt to spot weld ali, over 10kw normally. Thankfully mine is 3 phase. To spot weld ali with a single phase welder there is a little trick, slip a thin bit of mild steel between the ali and the welding tips and hey presto ali spot welding. This increases the resistance and there fore the heat generated. Still takes a long duration though, some times over 2 seconds.

You are right Phil they are quite thin but a i wont be leaving the bonnet up in a gale and the flaring does dramatically stiffen the ali. I shall fit them at the weekend and do a wobble test, they are only in the prototype stage at the moment.

Andy

Try spot welding ali with a regular commercial spot welder... it aint happening ;D. You need massive electrical power to spot ali ;)

I would venture that it is stronger with the dimple die'd holes. Nice work!

Thanks for the kind words but the proof of the pudding is in the eating etc etc. It does help that I have access to some pretty funky metal working tools in my job and the advice of some old guys who've seen it all before. ;D come Saturday afternoon I'll probably have another pile of twisted ali to sort out!

andy

Well, I fitted the now patented ali hinges on my '66 and despite very minor lateral deviation they work as advertised and to top it all help to knock nearly .25 second off of my PB!

Andy

Looks like this part is a dead-end.  The 'tard who makes them wants $850USD/pr.  :o

I was at Alan U's workshop a couple of days ago and saw these BMW forged aluminum rocker arms on the bench.  Wow were they ever light.  Too bad we can't get such a part for our engines.  Note the steel wear pads.

Elsewhere in Alan's shop I found this tiny Nissan horn.  Next to a '50s VW type horn, it's a real flyweight.

VW horn: 877g
Nissan: 172g

Reduction: a massive 705g!  (1.55lbs)

Simon from Paintbox now has plastic lenses available to buy I've put an ad in the for sale section.  Very light.

Cheers
Phil

Been looking for something like this for ages,reserved a pair today  ;D

200mm KEP 1700# pressure plate vs aluminium version of the same. Savings of 1,528.7 grams or just under 3lbs 6oz

Standard issue cast iron dual circut master cylinder vs aluminium "76 Bus" master cylinder. Savings of 620.7 grams, over one pound and nearly half as light.

Do you know the bore diameter of that Bus MC, Zach?
Notice the shaft sticking out.  That means it is designed to work with a vacuum booster.

Here's one from a BMW (529g) :

Not sure of the diameter. There are a few different aluminium master cylinders that can easily be adapted to a Beetle, so I was just showing the possible weight savings.
Does the BMW one interchange well for a Beetle?

I am running a bus master in my 66, definitely lighter.

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_WfCoy6mmPwA/SE9s6spOUCI/AAAAAAAACSM/7_kvWvUz0aQ/s400/IMG_7714.JPG)

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5293.0;attach=34315;image)

Pete Shattock has one of these on his 1776, seems to work ok  ;D

Has anyone got any opinions or weight details of 4 quart sumps,
Have got a Berg one on at moment and it weighs a lot but is there a lighter one, maybe CB Performance
Phil, did you swap yours mate

Woodentop

Paul, i'll go an weigh an Empi one, I know they're lighter because Phil had one! ;D

Hi Zach, who sells those aluminum pp's?

What can i say ben, that is very much appreciated buddy. just need some 4mm Alu tooling sheet for a sump plate and that should  all work a treat.

Just a note to all other weight weenies by the way, we swapped the Berg 52 carbs to Jenvy TB's and saved apprx 4kg, we originally swapped because the 52's wern't flowing enough so we picked up the cfm and what a bonus, 4kg's!!! and its weight hanging out the back of the car

Woodentop

Not sure how you go about getting one, really. I've heard that they were available for years, but never saw anything on KEP's website. This one I just happened to stumble upon on eBay :)

Everything Berg makes is heftyweight.  If you are trying to save weight, just don't buy Berg bits.
If you have the extra wide Berg sump, I think it weighs in around 5½ kilos.
For a street car, you don't need 4 extra liters.  With a 1½ qt sump and a spin-on filter, my oil change volume is almost 5 liters.  Anything more than this is just extra weight.  My vintage Lang deep sump is less than 1½ Kilos.  Not only is it 4 kilos less than the Berg sump, it holds 1.75 kilos less oil. 
Total savings :  5.75 kg or 12½ lbs.

In terms of the pressure plates, Kennedy still do them, and when I bought mine (recently) the 200mm were off the shelf, but the 180mm were special order. I have to say they were really good to deal with and shipped all the bits out top speed.

Be aware that the ali version should only be used with a regular disc like a Dakin or similar, not a puck or a Black Magic etc.

Hey Woody, I had thought about a folded ali sump, but Richie found me an old Berg magnesium one a while back so I never persued it, but its a nice idea.....as its all hanging out the back there!

Peter

Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the tip buddy, this one is for my race car but will take up your advise for my steetcar though.

Peter, that is a top idea, may need to call Mr Taylor, he is awesome at stuff like this

Woodentop

Paul,

Your Berg sump is the 4qt deep version, whereas the Empi large capacity sumps are shallower and wider (copy of Berg wide-glide).

The shallower depth wider sump is more practical for a street car but the extra depth of the Berg 4 quart race sump is my choice for a wet sump drag car, where ground clearance isn't an issue. You can run the oil level lower without risk of exposing the pickup tube entry. This puts more distance between the sump contents and  rotating assembly.

Hey, you lightweight guys, this saying might come in handy one day...
"Mass'll Save Your Ass"  ;)

Hey Woodie,

I had all the exact weights on my pc but the hard drive just gave up the ghost so I lost the info.  However I do recall:

EMPI ally 3.5qt, wide sump, bought from SSP - 3.85KG
Berg ally 3.5qt  wide sump same as above, bought 10 yrs ago - 4.85KG.  Incredibly a full kilo heavier made of the same material and the same size - must be thickness!
Old Berg 4 qt sump came in at 4.25KG, not sure if Mag or ally.

Needless to say I will be using the cheapy quality EMPI one going forward.

Cheers
Phil

Thanks John,

I agree, would want to go with same depth dimensions anyway to save messing with existing pick up tube, i can see me dragging some 3mm 6082 ali sheet out of the rack and asking trailer to fab one and coppying the Berg one for size and shape. A few strategically placed pillars tagged inside should make it a bit more structural. Guess it also needs to look nice in case my lack of mass bites my ass and it all goes rubber side up! :o

Woodentop

 ;D ;D ;D That's a funny one... made me chuckle. Keeno

Picked my pair up from the Paintbox the other day,very nice and very light,58g each versus 586g each for my glass ones  ;D

Heathen!

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5293.0;attach=34315;image)

I sent a message to KEP, and they don't make a Type 1 clutch where the stamped part is Aluminium.  What is that clutch you weighed for?

KEP said their aluminium Type 1 clutch is a "Stage I with aluminum face".

How does this work?  Anyone ever used a clutch with an aluminium shoe?

The shoe is aluminum but there is a fairly thick coating on the contact surface, It could be some type of metal/plasma spray.

hey guys, i stumbled onto the "aluminum face" KEP pp ib the optional selection and it says the same thing in the site - 2.5-3lbs wgt. reduction. It also says with a sprayed on matrix to reduce wear (wonder what that is?)....but if it helps quicker revs why not. Plus 110usd on top of the pp price, check this out:

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=CFP0003

Also from the Aircooled.net page:

"We do NOT recommend this if you are planning on burnouts, clutch slippage will hurt the face of the Pressure Plate."

Where's the fun in that??!?

I wonder if this aluminium shoe has the same propensity to wear into a cone shape like the iron one does?  Anyone used one of these clutches?

Here ya go! ;)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=852152 shotgun lightening :o

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/2853655.jpg)

Peter, have you installed this yet?  What's it drive like?

On another board, someone stated that the face is coated with a "Tungsten/Cobalt" coating.  That should wear quite well.

I have not used the 180mm one yet, but I have used the 200mm one for two races which was 9 burnouts and 9 full passes. I've also done around 500 road mikes. The first meeting there was no problem at all with 2 12 sec passes and 3 in the 11's (the car with me in it weighs around 1560lbs (Phil can you remember as I appear to have lost the weigh in bit of paper the MSA guy gave us) and has around 170-180hp). The second meeting I messed up the first burn out as I did not tape up the button on my Hydraulic handbrake and it slipped the clutch. After each of the 4 runs that weekend the clutch did smell but there was no sign of slip on my data logger so I'm guessing there is not an on going problem as the car ran 2 more 12 sec passes and another 2 11's and was OK with the drive home which is a bout 2 1/2 hours long.

Obviously it will depend on your combination (weight and power / torque) but if you’re in this sort of Ball Park, you should be fine. Interestingly when the pressure plate was first fitted we did try shimming it, and there was more pressure available. From memory it was almost exactly 170 out of the box, and I think we had it to around 200 with 0.5mm shims (I would need to check the actual figures but it was in that order). It was not shimmed when installed, it was just to check what we had, if we needed it.

The motor will be out of the car in 3 weeks time so I'll check to see how the parts are looking and post up here with what I find.

Hope this helps

Peter

Peter,

your car weighed in at 1346lb if i remember correctly, exactly 30lbs lighter than mine, although not for long.... ;)

cheers

andy

Thanks Andy,

I'll have a look through my stuff tonight, as I've lost a timing slip as well. It doesn't bode well for the Club, if the chief paper shuffler, is loosing all his paperwork!

See you soon Peter

old age is a terrible thing, it's a good job you're not driving to sweden on your own :D

Actually his ticket said 1,340lbs although that included the helmet at 3.3lbs so actual car weight was a smidge under 1,337lbs, or roughly 606KG.

Another 6 kilos to break the magic 600 mark!

Cheers
Phil

Thanks guys, the poor old man actually found his time slip, and the bit of paper with the weights on (1346lbs actually) in my wallet. It’s just a shame there was no money in there, but finding the previously lost bits of paper softened the blow!

So the car is 1343lbs and I weigh in at 155lbs with my suit and helmet etc, so my all up race weigh is around 1498lbs now in race trim (no muffler, fan belt, oil cooler, or heavy old radials) so it will be quite a bit heavier at the stop lights on the street. I think the majority of the weight loss this year has come from revolving parts in the gearbox and engine (wheels as well) so its not just dead weight in the car either, it’s mostly revolving, which is obviously good. I don't think I'll be saving another 10kg though, in fact if anything the car will be heavier next year I suspect.

So Phil you are still the lightest by some margin, but look out Woodentop is coming in 2010 (I think he really is this time too!) and don't forget Heir Marriot, as he will no doubt be scheming over the winter, to take your crown with all his fangled aircraft technology! Not forgetting Greg, as he seams to have weight “problems” these days too!

I'm looking forward to the 2010 weigh in contest already.

Peter

whoops sorry mate I actually read the ticket with the last digit as a zero but evidently it's a '6'.

Mine ended up at 601kg / 1323lb before me but I'm not skinny like you so mine was 1500 with me in it.  So you've done me by 2 pounds.  Likewise once I put the bigger motor in she's gonna weigh a heck of a lot more.

Plus as you say once Woodie arrives all bets are off - I reckon way lighter than either of ours.  Oh and in theory Jim's tube chassis came out at 1298 (if I remember right?) but that was before the Pauter block which must have added, what, 50lbs?  The Sting was 1330 I think but that's gone now.  Which means I may just have it until Woodencar blow us all away.

Well as I weigh a hell of a lot more than you two (probably the two of you put together!) I'm going to need something seriously light! I'm going to race just a bonnet on a floorpan I think! :D

Race driver for rent. Weighs in at 126lbs (57.2kg)... ;D

at least none of us have gone this far.... yet

andy

More anorexia, just under a kilo,

andy

Hey Chris

Is that an ali or iron master cylinder ?

Cheers Pas

No its not aluminum.

Bosch SR15N.  Haven't had a chance to weigh it but the starter motor is barely larger than the solenoid.  Came from a swap meet this past weekened.

Some Swedish friends built their own billet pressure face for the Kennedy. I am not sure how they solved the face but not with coating. Probably a separate replacebale riveted steel face.
It worked quite well as proven when they became class winners for several years with their buggy..and the clutch as far as I remember. They did a lot of burnouts, for sure.
These are the same guys that built their own 61.2 mmTerminators from billet plus many more inventions.
The Bug Professors son and father Martin and Ambjörn Karlsson.

I've got one of those in my stash, too. I've heard 3 pounds. I'll be sure to weigh the difference soon!

Here we go... Stock "Made in Germany" starter from my '67, weighing in at 5,633.9 grams. Bosch SR15N hitting the scale at a scant 3,130.5 grams... a savings of just over 2.5kg, that's 5 1/2 pounds!!!

Even better, it comes off the heavy end of the car.  Don't forget to drill a few holes in the flange!

Thats incredible!!!

Over here we use a Brize engineering starter which is basically based on an early 911 unit, but all newly built.  They come in at 2,577 gms complete.

Really? I'd love to see some more pics/info on that one.

http://www.brise.co.uk/Porsche_starter_motors.html

It's the middle one, for the 911.  Reliable and powerful - mine starts in a flash with this baby.

Here are the comparison numbers for those starters.
The Brise starter is 550g lighter than the Bosch, but costs $220 more (plus shipping)

I've had one of the Brise starters in my car now for over three years and it's always been ultra reliable, cranks over a high comp engine really easy and looks cool too, and half a kilo is half a kilo,

andy

This blows em all out of the park  ;D

A tiny one this time, brake hose clips genuine 7.8g, stainless 5.5g saving 13.8g per car, not including the rust on old ones ;D and they're shiny :D

Where do you get stainless ones?

www.vwheritage.com  ;D

Scott Sebastian runs my old one in his class 11 car.

Does anyone know what the weight difference is between a super diff and a quaife lsd? I keep hearing that they are heavy but how heavy is heavy?

andy

Ask Peter,

Its quite a lot.

Can't help you with the weight of a quaife, but off the top of my head my old T1 IRS ZF weighed in at 16.5lbs if I remember correctly, and my 091 Peloquin TBD is roughly a fokken tank.

I shall give Mr E a call later,

andy

How many kg is it in a single skin body,if i remove all the the inner panels?.The bulkhead and the rear sheet metal
is already gone,and its going to be replaced with 0.7 alu panels,is it worth the job?what do you think?

has anyone had sucess with an aluminum beam in a full bodied car? do they hold up? pros? cons?

I've got one in my '66, it's stood up to a years worth of wheelies and street driving with no real problems,
it's a jamar one with the billet shock towers. If you get one be sure to check the alignment of the top and bottom adjusters, the one i got was out by about 1.5 mm and caused a bit of head scratching when it came down to sorting the camber!

Saved around 15 kg over the original b/j beam

And they look good too, my mot tester was v. impressed

andy

Pete Shattock and Andy Marriot from the Outlaws both run aluminium beams, Andy only swapped over recently but Pete has been running one for several years, having driven all over europe with it. Both run stock stroke motors in all steel cars (Pete has a 1776 '61, Andy has a 1914 '66) running 11.9's and 12.0's!

I'm sure either of them would chime in with more help! ;)

thanks for the input guys ;D

As Andy and Neil have already said there is no problem in principal with and ali beam with a street car but I would suggest you keep an eye on two things. The bushes in the beams don't necessarily fit to well and I've ended up making new ones (speak to Paul Woodhead on here about suitable material) and now the bushes fit the beam and the arms very nicely so there is no play. The other issue is if you use a standard steering box you need to be carefull that when you bolt it up to the beam that the you do not over tighten the clamp as the beam goes out of round and pinches the arm in the beam and you loose free suspension travel on that side of the car with some nasty handling consequences. I ended up locating the steering box and torquing it to the recommended VW spec 22-25ft-lbs (I think) and reaming the bush in position in the beam, to ensure you still have free travel. 
There is one other thing the look good with the wheels up off the startline!

Hope this helps

Peter

thanks peter

Door hinges in aluminum ;D

Dibbs!

Did ya make more than 1 set?

Mail me
You might want a door skin of carbon fiber  500g

If you are making more than one set of these,I am sure there will be a few people on here who are interested (me included).

We're interested as well...not to be rude, but do you have a price in mind?

Aloha, Frank

Castagnetti Ohana Racing
Honolulu and Hilo

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PK72ALI-_i0/Sv7wYYFJ26I/AAAAAAAACtM/MLowSczu7hY/s1600/vw%2B024%2B(Small).jpg)

A bit of d.i.y...0,6 mm. polycarbonat lenses...app.40 gram...made over a casting(and not over the glass !),so they will fit inside the chrome rim like the original lenses  ;)

Cheers from Griebel

Planning on making more?

I'm liking what Stephan did to his coil bracket:

This was my very first "pull", but yes,-I'm planning to make more....Casting a model of the old symetric lenses too.....

Keep us posted  ;)

Some great ideas for weight saving here but what about safety issues ?

Are there certain things that shouldnt be lightened or certain nuts and bolts that need strength rather than lightness ?

Any ideas as i'm now stripping my 67 for a full rebuild though it will be road biased with some strip action.

Anyway, dont we need a bit of weight at the front end . . . . . .   ???

When you're looking at the fasteners for the steering or suspension, leave the original steel bolts in there.  To hold the wings on, aluminium is plenty strong enough.  How much does a wing weigh?

Or if your budget allows replace steel bolts for titanium. ;)

Steel rear wing = 8lbs
Steel front wing = 12lbs

Day Mouldings rear wing = 4lbs
Day Mouldings front wing = 6lbs
(Race weight wings)

Total weight saving = 20lbs

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=745441

can you say

light:-)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SyDTpIDlRAI/AAAAAAAADik/7kuZwTylcko/s640/DSC01929.JPG)

Whoa... what is that?! Very cool!!

Hand built racing car for a 1950 Great German Trophy. I suppose these are 16" VW wheels.

You're right... very cool!

Rifle drilled.

A preview of my new racecar, still some metal to remove     ;D ;D ;D

Remove over 6 lbs from engine parts. Over 1lb. [attachment=1][attachment=2][attachment=3][attachment=4]just from the rods!

more pics, champhered 1600 wrist pins, moved keepers in, 94mm dished 10cc pistons over an ounce per piston[attachment=1][attachment=2][attachment=3]

I love the rods, but are you sure they aren't going to break at hig rpm? I assume you are going to chamfer the holes on the rods to avoid stress risers which will lead to cracks? Great addition to the thread! keep the pix coming 8)

Hi the  stres on the rod is going thru the shoulder of the rod the rest is just fill up material lightning the rod like this make it do his job so good as posible  just push the force from the combustion on the crank and when it comes up it wil not take as much weight with it les mass
so ill think it wil be stronger in a combo that suits it

henri.

It's about time you showed up here, Mark. :)
Are those stock VW rods?  What does each rod weigh?

 The stock rods are 470 grams total, I have run the rods at over 6000 RPM on an 82 stroke and then REVVED IT!

So I was thinking about how I could reduce the rotating mass on my Erco's.I wanted to use the tapered washers that my wheels came with so that ruled out using 14mm Porsche alloy radius lugnuts, so I found some 12mm tapered alloy lugnuts.

Not a huge saving I know (800g less than the lugnuts the wheels came with) but every little counts. ;)

Now an even smaller (who said pathetic) saving,swapped rubber wheel valves for alloy ones,a massive 28g saving. :o

Not using dust caps waaaaaaay too heavy :D

It's all worthwhile.
Generator pulley nut & steering wheel nut:

Now that's drawing the line ... you guys are SICK.
 ;)

hollow trans plugs came in at 20g

Stock: 168g
Drilled: 114g 
= 32% less

This has to be my favourite thread ever 8)

Some good stuff here!! :o

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Steve+Hogue

WOW  :o

Impressive stuff,love the drilled rear torsion bar tubes and swing arms.

I like the air ducts to the drums , nice  8)

Stock 3-4 shift rod = 130g
Hollow 3-4 shift rod = 93g
Difference = 28%

Frame horn bolts : 262g/pr.
modified : 204g/pr
22% less.

Pulley bolt : 99g, modified : 69g
30% less.

 :D

Bruce,

Love all the holes! Is anything safe from the driller killer?

What is all this stuff going on/in?

Keep up the good work as it brightens up my day when I see such ridiculous behavior.

Peter

Join in!

I think Phil said it earlier, VW over-designed a lot of the parts, so most parts can be lightened.

My short term goal is to be able to build all these light bits into a Berg 5 and have the result weigh less than a stock 4 speed.

3-4 fork (bottom) 135 to 106g = 27%
5th fork (top) 117 to 92 = 21%

lots of holes :D. how much kg will You save totall with this drilling? 50kg?.
Good for me that I don't have to driil anything :D cuz I save 50kg in total weight of the car + driver in really  easy way. I weigh 55kg :) so comparing to guys that weigh 80-90kg :) thats easy way to lighten weigh. BTW I'm not on the diet or have some kinda diesies :D

But I like this thread. Any one made some tests with for example with drilled rods? they look really weak wht RPM's they'll survive?

cheers
Tom.

Yes agreed amazing stuff and good to see - you must have a fairly decent setup to drill all this, I have been struggling with an old pillar drill for a while now but a lathe would be lovely!  What machinery do you use for bits like this?

Bruce,

As Phil suggests I too love the quality of your work.

I can confess to my gear selector forks having holes in them as well, but not as many as yours (mine have been fine by the way).

I've also been rather extravagant with the framehorn bolts and made them in Titanium, but you will be pleased to hear, in the time honoured fashion they have blind holes in them and a taper to the head of the bolt much like yours. Sad but true!

I too have a 5 speed to build (the box I refer to above is a 4 speed) and interestingly I was thinking along the same lines that it would be good to get to the same weight as a stock 4 speed, so I hope you make it. 

Keep up the good work, and keep the pictures coming.   

Peter

Peter gave me another idea.

Frame horn bolts, now 192g/pr.  = 27% less
Pulley bolt, now 58g.  =  41% less

Pictures?

you lot are mad. hope its not contagious.
cheers dean

Come on guys, I can't do it all!  Let's see your ideas.

These are the 2 dowel pins that locate the gear carrier to the main trans case.
Stock = 41g/pr
Drilled = 14g/pr  = 66% less

This is the reverse gear's lever.
Stock = 48g
Drilled = 30g  = 33%

I've got nothing!  My job has me driving a desk, but every once in a while I help out where we have a small workshop with a pillar drill.  After work I give it a workout.
I also have a mate who works in a machine shop and likes doing VW jobs, so he does some.

One thing that really helps is good drill bits.  Look at this one from Boeing Surplus.  These are very sharp and they last a long time.  Notice how there's a step in the drill?  It's designed to drill sheet metal.  The step goes in first and produces a wobbly hole.  Then it acts like a pilot for the second part, making a perfectly round hole.  They are also very cheap; they sell them by the pound.  The only drawback is the limited number of sizes.

Hi Bruce I have a photo for you but don'know how to post it here! I'll see if I can find and adult to show me how!

Peter[attachment=1][attachment=1]

Great drill work Bruce,these are like little works of art in there own right. 8)

Shame that they have to be hidden away inside the box !

Hopefully this will work! Lightened Grade 5 Ti frame horn bolt.

[attachment=1]

Peter

We need the weight for it, is it drilled through to?  ;D

Frame horn bollt have blind holes and weigh 62g each

I had my hub nuts around as well they weigh 53g each.

Peter

What? Is this thread stalled? Surely, there must be some more weight saving ideas!

What about sandblasting the body a few times extra?
To make the sheet metal thinner..
To bad i just painted my bug last year..  :-[
And left my heating tubes from front to back..  :-[
I think next year when my second engine is ready, (2.7type 4 from Udo becker) i have to start cutting again..

I have 1 set doors extra.. I'm gonna fit then on my bug..
Than i gonna try a bit of weight saving with sandblasting and cutting away inside metal and drilling holls in the side..
See what it delivers..

2 doors are in for sandblasting and than some drilling..

Just an idea: when you have trim, bore some holes behind it, should save a few grams too :P :D

i think i'm gonna cut them in half.. No inside metal..
Pics soon..

I don't think you'll be able to measure any weight difference by sandblasting.  All you're gonna do is warp the hell out of your panels.  Cutting and drilling is where it's at.

I thought sand blasting just moves the metal around, and doesn't actually remove any.


May be wrong,



Martin

Hey guys, here's my secret weapon:


Cameron's a machinist and he's got this cool waterjet cutting machine that can zip through hardened steel with ease.  Check out the holes he put in these reverse gears.  I also narrowed the one on the left.  I figure since this gear never breaks, and never wears out, it can stand to lose strength.  I just gotta remember to not do any reverse burnouts. 
Oh ya, original : 142g, drilled and narrowed : 80g.

Bruce, that's just insane! I would interested to know how much weight you save on your complete gearbox. It would also be interesting to know the parasitic power loss through a lightened drive train compared to stock. 

The goal is to make my Berg 5 weigh the same as a stock 4 gear.  I've got a running total so far, but I'm not close to done yet.

There are two ways power gets stolen by the gearbox.  One is through friction of the various contact surfaces.  I figure that will be pretty much the same in my gearbox after the weight is cut down since I won't be changing anything on the bearings, and other than the gear in the pic and the coupler, I won't be narrowing the forward gears.  Much. ;)

The second way power is robbed is through the inertia of the rotating parts.  They are all like little flywheels.  They steal hp while you're accelerating.  If they're lighter, they take less power to accelerate them.

The parts on the two shafts of the gearbox are almost insignificant compared to the big players like the flywheel, clutch, crank, diff, brakes, and wheels and tires.  All those parts will be on the chopping block eventually.

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_WfCoy6mmPwA/TPPjv1L6Q0I/AAAAAAAAMJQ/0_l_MgtmH6M/s640/IMG_5851.JPG)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_WfCoy6mmPwA/TPPjwWaadYI/AAAAAAAAMJU/02fs3Se2jRE/s640/IMG_5852.JPG)

Well done Chris.  It's good to have a new convert.

You could go with bigger holes in the e-brake lever.  The strength is in the width.  The metal at the half way point of the width adds zero strength.
Next, drill the cross bar that the lever pulls against.  Have you drilled the brake shoes like in the pic I posted long ago?

The holes in the pan clamps do not reduce their effectiveness.  All of their ridgidity is in the vertical flaps.

I am well on my way.  :)

I plan on going bigger on the lever. I just need to grab some smooth step bits.

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3275/image1812.jpg)

I will hit the shoes and the cross bar this weekend.

bump for this thread. i like it a lot, but not much to contribute for now.  :(

just remember

i dint weigh the weight, but sometime last year i changed out the original SC master cylinder on my 66.

i wanted to try something different so i fitted an aluminium master cylinder from a late model Nissan 4 cylinder car.

it was designed to work with a booster, but i just took it, redreilled the holes to follow the the holes inour VWs .

it sure is a lot lighter but i am not sure what the bore size is.

seems to be working OK so far.



main reason wasnt even for weight, i wanted the reservoir to be ontop of the MC and the ATE late model DC costs USD140 in my area, the Nissan MC can be found in near mint condition for USD20, so i decided to try it out and if it doesnt work, just swap back a VW unit. so far no issues yet.

(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/pupjoint1/brakebefore.jpg)
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/pupjoint1/brakebefore1.jpg)
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/pupjoint1/brakefinish2.jpg)
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/pupjoint1/brakefinish.jpg)
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/pupjoint1/brakefinish3.jpg)

Another small weight loss, 15g saving on a stock steering column clamp. ;D

Tha's one bit I might not take anything out of... :o :D

Hey Neil

Fear not it is still very strong, the strength seems to be in the folded edges of the clamp, ( back me up on this one Bruce ;D) I gave it a good old twist in the vice and it is still rigid. Phil West has been running a very similar clamp to this, and we both know how thoroughly he likes to test his car ;D

Indeed!  There's nobody on this board with enough strength to break that.
I was thinking of making something like that from Al, although it would be difficult to best the weight of yours. 

Bus reservoir has to be lighter than the stock set up.

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_WfCoy6mmPwA/TQpq8bBJScI/AAAAAAAAMR4/B3u4t9Ijwus/s640/IMG_6338.JPG)

Finished brake parts-

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_WfCoy6mmPwA/TQpq9CmSFNI/AAAAAAAAMSA/Zju-94sCtFk/s640/IMG_6355.JPG)

So much paint, it must make the parts make weigh in heavier than before the drilling  ;) ;D

This really is my favourite thread ever! Don't stop the drilling!

I agree, all we need to do now is to find a suitable alloy single circuit master cylinder, that has to be even lighter ;)

Having had partial brake failure on a dual circuit street car, I'd much rather run a dual circuit m/c and forgoe the third helping of Cristmas pud!

Has anyone thought of the weight of the wiring on the cars? I was reading Andy Frost's Red Victor 3 (street-legal Pro Mod!) build up, and he said about using aircraft wiring as it's much lighter than automotive?

http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/garage/redvictor3-started-last-5064

Have a look through - it's awesome!

Looks like its leaking abit  :-\

Thats alot of effort dude - you could have just used a standard dual circuit master and a VOLVO reservior  :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220707020027&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

nope, it has been a year now so far it hasn't leaked a drop. the ones u see are not leaks, forgot what they were.

the nissan MC came with the reservoir installed, aluminium and way lighter, plus they are everywhere in this part of the world.

not much extra work, just redrill and retap the mounting holes.

Now I like single circuit iron m/c's and I like dual circuit alloy m/c's, but which is best? There's only one way to find out.........get the scales out  ;D

Not sure if it's the same stuff Neil but thinwall wire is supposed to be a lighter alternative to regular auto wiring, price isn't too bad either. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Automotive-cable-wire-1mm-32-0-2-16a-thinwall-/220598569082?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item335cb3087a

Vehicle wiring products have thin wall cable, Bernie used it in the new loom ;D

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/cable/thinwall.php

I don't see much weight savings by reducing the insulation a tiny bit.  Notice how they make no claims of how much weight is removed?

Anyone found a source for aluminum wire?  That will weigh significantly less.

The weight saving comes from being able to using smaller size wire as the insulation can cope with it without breaking down.   From the ratings on VWP website, the 1mm2 standard cable can cope with 8amps but the 0.5mm2 thinwall can cope with 11amps.

Every little bit counts right  ;D

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_WfCoy6mmPwA/TSE_jOhFHiI/AAAAAAAAMaM/Kxo8XM29iCo/s640/IMG_6612.jpg)

That's right Chris.
did you drill out the e-brake pivot pin yet?

Now guess which one weighs 24g, and which one weighs 8g?

Is one a repop?

You could say that.  Yesterday I "repop'd" them from aluminium.

Nice drop of madness you have going on there Bruce!

Great quality work as ever too.

I don't have much of interest to contribute at the moment, but its good to see this threat is alive and kicking.

Peter

Those are super nice Bruce ... you gonna make more to sell? ::)
Tom

Depends on how much gets thrown at me. ;)

Is this enough? ;D
[attachment=1]

Very nice work Bruce!

Think they are lighter than the billet ones out there? They sure look nicer.

I'm sure they are lighter.  Mine are 2mm thick everywhere.  Just like stock.  The billet type ones are thicker.
I didn't make them to be lighter than the billet ones. I just don't like any of the billet stuff you can buy.

Hi Bruce. Nice brackets! Out of interest, how did you press the swages into them? Very trick, did you make some kind of former? Regards, Matt

VW did.
After I cut out the Al from 2mm sheet and made the two bends, I put a stock steel bracket on each side, then squished them together.  It's not ideal because there's no allowance for the thickness of the material, but it does kinda work.

Ah... Good thinking Bruce. I like your style  8)

How about this stuff.

http://delphi.com/news/featureStories/fs_2009_10_23_001/

Not sure how you get your hands on it though.

Very cleaver!!

Now, what other parts can you make using that technique?

Another small saving, single skinned the glove box door.

Not sure how much lighter it is yet, need to weigh it.

Well done.

Don't forget to drill the hinges!

What do you think about making it from alloy?  I think 1.2mm would make it rigid enough.

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_WfCoy6mmPwA/TTR6Bh2IBMI/AAAAAAAAMgw/MIQQjR-dY70/s640/IMG_6997.JPG)

what do you think about those brake drums ::) ,they aren't on a car ,but on a sand buggy ,very light no back plates  :o

Shouldn't be too difficult, just need to work out how to attach it to the hinges.

Could somebody please make these to fit type 2s too..

Aluminium mid mount made from 10mm plate, I haven't weighed it yet but it should be lighter than a 4mm steel one I think.

Your thicker Al plate will be 15% less than the thinner steel one. 
IMO, you could have made it thinner.

Are you going to make an Al rear bracket?

Hey Bruce

I think you are right and I will have another made in 8 or maybe even 6mm plate. Most steel ones I have seen are 6 or 8mm so even this 10mm one will be substantially lighter.

I will have an Ali  rear one made up eventually but I already had the steel one so thought why not hit it with the lightening stick, there is still plenty more material I can take out it.

Very nice indeed, Pas! You could take a drill to those metal brackets you welded to the chassis... A few grammes there to be shed! Looking good, can't wait to see it finished!

I like this ones....;)

They are out of titan!

Get yours at csp!! ;)

Basti

I want some, better start saving   :o ;D

€, £, $??

169 EUR

http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=det&wkid=13062508040&rub1=Rear%20Axle&rub2=Wheel%20Bearings&artnr=24478a&pn=0&sort=0&all= (http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=det&wkid=13062508040&rub1=Rear%20Axle&rub2=Wheel%20Bearings&artnr=24478a&pn=0&sort=0&all=)

169 EURO !!!!!!!! It's more than twenty bucks!!!

I can't do it!  That's 2 € per gram.

Have you then also considered that your wallet will be 1267,5 grams lighter due to the missing the 169 missing Euro coins?  ;)

Yep but if you pay with bank notes and you got the difference in coins you have it in the a**!   :D :D ;D

My '65 is all torn apart at the moment, so what better time to put as many parts on a diet before they get put back together?  Here is the handbrake and pivot pin.  It may get shortened at the handle a couple of inches.
Sorry I don't have the exact weight, but that pivot pin was really heavy for what it was!
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/tobiism/Josie/DSC09112.jpg)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/tobiism/Josie/DSC09113.jpg)
next up is the pan washers!

Looks good, Matt.  It's good to have another convert.
Take out the ratchet piece and drill the hell out of that too.

I tried to drill the ratcheting pawl (the one pinned in side the lever) and that damn thing must be hardened!  My drill bit wouldn't touch it! 
I'll have to drill the rest of the ratcheting mechanism as well. 

OK so I'm into this, but i would like to see how some of you lay out your drill patters

Does anyone have any data on seat weights?  I just weighed mine and it came in at a rather shocking 5.91kg, surely there's lighter ones out there?

A great way to do it is to tape a piece of graph paper to the part and use an automatic center punch to lay out a grid.  Keep in mind the size of the holes you're going to drill and modify your layout on the graph paper.
Another thing to remember if you're going to layout holes that get progressively larger is that the spacing between the holes is going to change.

That is an AWESOME little bit of info - I have ALWAYS wondered about that - SO simple  ::)  :D ;) :)

Have a look into the reproduction Speedster seats.  Some are formed from ally sheet, then with some padding.

What seat have you got at the moment Phil? I'm guessing a Jaz or a Kirkey - they're pretty light - and how about punching some holes and then flanging them? I know Pete S has some speedster seats without padding, and we know he's into his light weight stuff too!

Actually I don't know what they are,can't remember but they're not marked.  Steel tube frame and padding so no real place to lighten them.  I reckon ally's the way forward....

A friend of mine had a Kirkey seat for his F2 stock car, and it was amazingly comfy, much more figure hugging than the Jaz one, which looks a bit like a bucket to me... Only problem is that being a stock car seat, it has a lot more side bolster than you need in a drag car, but you could cut it down a lot!

And they do drag seats too.
http://www.kirkeyracing.com/index.php?link=browse&code=Series16
You could ask one of the oval racing companies to tag one onto their next order?

Same model I have, I will try and get it on the scales Phil and let you know the weight.

very nice thanks guys.  Will have a good look at their website too.

Preferably without you in it! ;D

Phil, you've got unneccesary steel in your car! don't tell Pete :)

I'm built for comfort not speed  ;D

Phil weight is 5.4 kg with no cover (way too heavy ;D), so not a great saving. I think I will be putting a few holes in mine like Neil suggested, should easily get it below 5kg  ;D

I see their lightest seat is the sprint lightweight which comes in at around 4kg without cover (pic attached hopefully).  I like the drilled look!

PAS have you run without the cover?  Is is comfortable?  Neil you mentioned your mate's was ok - without the cover?  I reckon there's got to be an extra pound or two in a cover.

They are suprisingly comfy with the cover. Without the cover they are race only but you can always buy a padded cycle shorts.

BB

No not yet, I have only sat in it for mock up purposes so far (I did find it pretty comfortable without a cover on though). Like BB suggested, for racing I am not using a cover but for the street I am getting a seat pad made up by Bernie.  

I have a kirkey without padding in my oval and it's much more comfortable then you would think.  ;)

Michael

In the interests of getting a decent time in the summer, I am heading up stairs to go on the cross trainer, think the 5 stone excess i'm carrying needs to be shed first!

I like this version! 9 kgs less with a new battery!
And it has the same power tha a standard 65ah!

Let me know if you like one ;)

[attachment=1]

Phil, avoid giving yourself asteroids and go for the cover. To offset the slight weight disadvantage you could always trim your beard, get titanium spectacle frames or go for a good dump before you race...  ;D

In all seriousness, this is my favourite thread by far and long shall it continue  ;)

I was reminded of this thread when I swapped my stock starter for my Skoda starter last Sunday. Minimal effort, huge weight reduction.

How much reduction? What Skoda was it from?

i didn't actually weigh it on a scale, but it's almost half the size.

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,6655.msg187097.html#msg187097 (http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,6655.msg187097.html#msg187097)

Cool, I wonder what it will be like on a high comp motor.

I'm told by a friend that they work better than my hi torque starter motor, he tried both  ;)

Hmmmm anyone got a Part No: for this starter ??? Or better still a link to a supply ???  :)

those are listed in the link i provided. got mine off german eBay over a year ago ;D

Cool cheers dude  :)

I think this is what we need.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390173135566&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Brise starters are top quality and the lightest available (I think) at 2.5 kg but cost nearly £400 with delivery, the Skoda units weigh 3kg and cost £90.

http://www.brise.co.uk/Porsche_starter_motors.html

I had a high torque starter on the weight yesterday 3,9kg

John

That would depend on your cam.

i prefered a used OEM starter over a (possible China-made) replacement part.
those old skodas don't last very long anyway, so i bet a used starter deserves a second life in a proper car  ;D

I emailed the seller yesterday asking who the manufacturer is and if they are new or recon, I will let you know what the reply was.

Porsche 356 Carrera GT brakes with aluminium shoes and RSK Spyder aluminium wheel cylinders :o

(http://porsche356registry.org/356talk/download.html?id=3550&t=1)

And the RSK drums that cover them up :o

(http://porsche356registry.org/356talk/download.html?id=3556&t=1)

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/medium/2385624.jpg)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=706514

I had a reply from the seller today and they are not OEM but new copy units, so I presume they are Chinese.

look cheap and nasty better send them to me , I'll pay the postage  :D

Wow!  Did you win the Lottery?  That stuff was rare and expensive thirty years ago when we ran a
set up like that on our Formula V/slalom car.  Needless to say I'm pea green with envy  ;D

No no no, they aren't mine! I wouldn't have a clue what to do with parts like that, that setup is worth more than my car. I just saw the pics on a 356 site, and put them here. ;)

You never know, perhaps some day you might have the means to purchase a set of brakes like those.  ;)

Sorry folks I have nothing to contribute at the moment, instead I have a couple of weight saving questions that hopefully some of you will be able to address.

Firstly a question on fasteners, I am planning to use aluminium fasteners wherever possible on my build, i.e anything that is not safety critical, wings, doors, trim etc. For the safety critical areas, suspension, steering, engine/gearbox mounts etc. I am going to use titanium as much as possible. So what is my question? Well in an attempt at keeping costs down I wonder if I can use aluminium nuts with titanium bolts ? I know Porsche, for example, use alloy wheel nuts with steel studs, so can this thinking be reapplied to other components ? I am thinking spring plate/axle bolts, front trailing arm/stub axle bolts etc. Can I replace the steel gearbox casing nuts for alloy? Also is a particular grade of Ti and ali required?

Lots to think about there I know and would appreciate any input.

My second question is a little more straightforward, has anyone compared the weight of different brake set ups ? I am planning on using stock 5/205 drums all round but if I were to switch to disc brakes would I see any weight saving ?  

Again thanks for any input.

Interesting idea using alloy hardware. As long as you keep your car out of salty water, there shouldn't be a problem to mix materials. When it comes to strength there might be some issues depending on the alloy and heat treatment. In general, both aluminium and titanium has a lower tensile strength and hardness than steel, this limits how much tension they can handle. E.g. if an M8 bolt needs 30Nm torque, this might snap an aluminium bolt or stretch a titanium bolt beyond it's elastic limit. The suppliers I know for alloy bolts clearly advise not to use these fasteners for important components like brakes and suspension.

Have not weighed discs vs. drums, but would say that discs have more stopping power per kilo than drums!

Thanks for the input lightning, I agree about using alloy bolts for brakes/suspension etc, a strict no no.

I will try and get some info on the strength of the nuts below.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280668167297&var=580030238469&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I have looked into titanium strength grades, grade 5 is the most commonly used grade in the aerospace and automotive industries and is an alloy of Titanium aluminium and vanadium (Ti-6Al-4V). It has a tensile strength of around 1000 Mpa and hardness of Rockwell 36, which I think, is comparable to high tensile steel.

Some more :
http://www.isa-racing.com/index.php/cat/c851_Aluminiumschrauben.html

;-)

I saved a little weight on my front LP Beam. I removed the shocks and shock towers, shock bolts and snubber horns.
I added lighter friction shocks. I removed about 5 inches from the beam width (torsion leaves and tubing weight).
I removed the brake drums, backing plates, all brake hardware and hoses. I removed the steel wheels and replaced them with 6lb magnesium wheels.
Heres some pics.

More pics...

What does that alu peice do ? Is it like on a old splitbug with rear suspention or ? 

These are dry, adjustable tension, friction shocks. I have 22 ft lbs torque currently. The more tight, the more friction. If I tighten them to 40ft.lbs., then they become permanent in one position. I have access to the center tension bolt from underneath (do not have to remove tank).

That is pretty cool. how does they "fell" compaired to normal shocks ?

And where can you buy them ?

Thank you sir. Here is a link to Speedway Motors.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Mr-Roadster-Friction-Shocks,3799.html

They feel like normal shocks, no difference.

Not all of them.  I'd say you can use M7 alloy nuts for the nose cone.  Not a lot of stress there. 

The side cover nuts are different.  Their torque spec is higher than normal (22ftlbs), indicating it's a high stress location.

Thanks Bruce exactly the kind of advice I am hoping for. I am not using a front mount on my gearbox anyway, so I would think the stress on the studs/nuts there will be less. I guess a good way to check what material I use in what location would be to have a look through a workshop manual for torque settings. I still need to gather info on what kind of torque you can apply to alloy nuts. 

Does any one out there have good data on the weights of the various wide five disc brake set ups out there (csp, jamar etc) for link pin front end and there weight saving over stock front drums,

Andy

Just got a Bus CSP disc brake setup and inc the box it came in it weighed 27 kilos! Bug CSP kit is slightly smaller, but still has the heavy cast iron/steel calipers etc. Figure around 20-23 kgs for Bug setup.
My Wilwood setup is pretty damn light, haven't weighed it yet, but loads lighter than stock drums. Hard to find these days though...
Ah, here's a thought. I have a Jamar disc/hub setup that you could have very cheap. Quite light if I remember rightly. No calipers or brackets, but to a man of your callibre, no problemo! Thinking about it, it might be a Neal hub and disc combo... I got it off Bernie so long ago I can't remember. I think he had it on his 67 for a while...
A 67 will be balljoint, so probably no good to you. Jeez, I am rambling... I haven't even had a beer. Yet...

I'm not sure of the weight but my front brake set-up (strange disk and caliper etc) is super light. Mine is chevy pattern granted, however CSP/RLR now make it in a wide 5 pattern and I can't imagine it would be massively heavier.

Steve

Thanks Mat , I turned my back on ball joint front ends a while ago...

There's no doubting the quality of the csp disc brake stuff but they are damned heavy, If I could prove the conection I could probably take them to court over my bad back ;D

I'm currently just doing a bit of speculating due to enforced down time, so no racing at all this year, hopefully next year my health will be better.

Steve, I'll have a look at the rlr stuff and see what gives,

Andy

just had a quick look at the rlr site , only seem to do a wide 5 rear kit at the mo...

any one out there got a old stlye wilwood kit they want to sell??

andy

They might be on the csp site, I'm sure I've seen the fronts!

Hi Andy,

Neal wide 5 front ally hub/disc, including bearings and washer 5.58kg.  Wilwood caliper 850gm including pads.  No data for caliper bracket although that's ally.

Cheers
Phil

Hi Phil,

do you know if the neal kit adds any width to the front track?

andy

Hub depth from rear of inner hub seal to outside of outer hub bearing (excl. washer) is 80mm.  What's your equivalent for stock drums?  My thoughts are it's the same.

Cheers

Cheers  Phil

I will go and have a measure as soon as I am allowed out of the house after our new arrival, no time soon if the missus has anything  to do with it

andy

good luck!  :)

x 2  :)

Andy, I've got the CB kit for dropped spindles for my split - I'll weigh the caliper and hub and get back to you on that. Gut feeling is that the hub isn't too heavy, but the caliper is a chunky piece! :D

Caliper mounting brackets 311gm.  So the total weight of the entire Neal kit including bearings is 6.7kg per side.  13.2kg for front brakes sounds like a lot!

Ok, I just went to my garage and did a bit of weighing and measuring,

stock 58-64 front drum complete with 12mm screw in studs, bearings and hub seal came in at a healthy 6.1kg

front shoes (drilled, about 35g lighter each than stock) springs, adjusters, bearing washer and end cap and retainers springs and cups were 1.2kg

front backing plate with wheel cylinder 1.5kg

making a grand total of 8.80 kg per side.

Bear in mind that I didn't use my Nasa calibrated scales to weigh these with, just a good quality pair of kitchen scales instead but there appears to be at least 4kg saving available doing the Neal disc swap plus you would gain the reduced rotational mass advantage of disc brakes too,

Unfortunately it would appear that they would also add about 20mm to the track each side if Mr West is right with the 80mm reading thus requiring a beam narrowing, and I'm not sure if they will clear zero off set centerlines, I'm waiting on an email from a contact in the states on this

Andy

Yeah Nasa do indeed calibrate my scales monthly.  Not!

Still the 0.5kg rotational saving is not bad - that's with the standard 14mm press in steel studs too.

My beam is 2" narrowed, with zero offset ercos (which fit fine over the wilwoods) and cb performance dropped spindles.  It's not that narrow with all that lot on, maybe there is an offset on the Neals.  Fairly sure there's a bit of an offset from those spindles.

The ercos have a 2 stepped inner, diameter 12.5" and 14.5", let me check this morning and see which bit goes over the calipers.  Then you'll be able to compare your centrelines inside diameter.  Failing that you could always bring the rim along to a meet and try it over my setup.  Cheers

 Ti ?

actually no (not yet?), it's £100 a corner to go that route (gulp)

The ercos have a 2 stepped inner, diameter 12.5" and 14.5", let me check this morning and see which bit goes over the calipers.  Then you'll be able to compare your centrelines inside diameter.  Failing that you could always bring the rim along to a meet and try it over my setup.  Cheers
[/quote]

Checked and you will need a minimum of 12.5", the inset ercos are very tight clearance on those calipers.

An update on this, I've had a 6mm ali gearbox mid mount made and this is the result.

Mild steel mount [attachment=1]


6mm ali mount[attachment=2]

Just under 400g saved  ;D  

2 month on this one = 10kilo body weight drop  :D :D

(http://www.cykelgalleri.dk/uploads_large_wm/144490.jpg?05-07-2011_13:19:58)

Car is under 700kg with driver  ;)

 :)

I've been going to the gym for the last three months and I've PUT ON two pounds! :o

Here is the IRS rear trailing arm pivot bolt.  Stock is completely solid and a hefty 251g each.  My drilled ones are 123g, for a reduction of 256g, or 51%.

A half a pound saving on just two bolts! Good work Bruce  8)

If Phil needed these, he'd make them from Ti! 
His bolts would be 143g for the pair instead of 502g.

We've got a local restoration shop that specializes in pre-war, high end European cars.  I saw this coil bracket on one of the work benches.  It is made from 1mm Al.  At first, I thought there's no way that would survive, but then I realized it is mounted to the car body, not the shaking engine.  I didn't get a weight on it, but I'm sure you can use your imagination.

I drilled this last year.  What I learned from this, is that drilling small holes in sheet metal is a colossal waste of time!!!

251g --> 168g = 33%

Maybe a waste of time, but looks the dog's danglies  8)

Remember Bruce every little counts :)

I don't think we've discussed batteries yet.

I remember talking to Mark Herbert years ago about Odyssey motorcycle batteries.  I know a couple of guys that tried the PC680.  It's got 680A of cranking (for a short time), and it does work in a VW.  But you don't have much reserve.  It weighs 6.8kg.  That's pretty good compared to the normal antique battery most of us use. (12-15kg)

Today I found out about the new Lithium batteries.
http://www.solomotoparts.com/product.php?productid=48290&cat=539&page=1#more_details
It's only got 500 cranking amps, but look at the weight!  1.35 kg!!!

That is the biggest battery they make.  If it wasn't enough, you could get 2 of the next size down and put them in parallel to get 720A.  The total weight for two of them, 2.1kg.  And they are super tiny too.
http://www.solomotoparts.com/product.php?productid=43444&cat=0&page=1

This co is in the OC.  Who's going to be the first to go there and buy one for their VW?

I use the 680, mixture of race and street use with an alternator. It cranks a 2387 9.4:1 easily. Its never gone flat in 4 years even with all electrics on and I have a  heated front and rear screen in my Ghia. I like the sound of this lithium battery, I thing 500 cranking amps could do. with a ghia you have to get rid of all the weight you can.

Porsche top models can be ordered with a very light Li-battery,but the price is out of this world.

If the Lithium batteries are similar to the Lithium-Polymer units used in radio controlled cars, they're great until something goes wrong... They need to be charged in an explosion-proof bag, so I don't think I'd want one behind my drivers seat... :o

i try this starterbatterie next.
http://autsys.tkk.fi/intranet/as-0.3200/attach/S11-20/GWL-LFP-Product-LP12V20AHB.pdf

116euro
http://www.ev-power.eu/?p=p_48&sName=lifeypo4-batteries-%2812v%29
if 4 more people want one we could get them for each 108 euro.

New lithium starter batteries are of LiFePO4 type, they won't catch fire or explode pretty much from anything. Way more safe than Li-Ion or lead-acid batteries. Also dis/re-charge rates are way up from Li-Ion. Recharge is also better than in lead-acid, however lead-acid still has the greates discharge rate. The downside is about half of energy capacity of Li-Ion, still way better than from lead-acid. Oh, and the price, that too :)

Bare 3,7V cells can be have for a couple hundred euros for the battery that could start up a car easily and fully reload in about 5 minutes. Not sure however if there's suitable modules to handle the recharge part.

a friend of mine recently ordered some titanium parts for his mini from here

www.titanclassics.com

i emailed them if they are oing to make anything for aircooled vws

After seeing Bruce's thread a few posts up I thought I'd make a coil bracket out of some Mil spec 50A titanium I have lying around (cheers Brad!). It measures 0.020" (0.5mm) and is incredibly strong for such thin sheet - easily up to the task of holding a coil. Anyway, I weighed a stock VW bracket and it weighed in at a hefty 74 grams. The ti bracket weighed in at a measly 12 grams! A weight saving of approx 84% ! Long live the diet  8)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/15window/DSC00085.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/15window/DSC00087.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/15window/DSC00089.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/15window/DSC00104.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/15window/DSC00100.jpg)

ive got a bag of filler from the guy who is respraying my racecar will weigh it when i get it all together  ;D ;D ;D

I bet the bolt is a major % of the weight!

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to form that.  Do you put in the 4 bends, then just wrap it around the coil?

BTW, I see several opportunities on your engine.  Pictures at 11.

Bruce, I measured both brackets without the bolts, so there is a great additional weight saving to be had if you used a ti bolt or even ali item.

To make the bracket I simply put the four bends in then wrapped the curve around the coil. Very simple and easy to do. I was going to punch larger holes in the bracket as I reckon 10 grams is easily achievable. Maybe will on the next bracket - I might even make a small batch if anybody wants one? Even at 12 grams the bracket is rediculously light. Picking it up seems to trick the brain as what's in your hand weight-wise doesn't compute with the size of bracket...

Keep posting pix of your lightening work Bruce; it's inspirational  8)

I'll take one Matt ;D Guess postage won't kill me  ;D ;D

Michael

Coolio. I will put you down on the list Michael. If we get another four people I'll make a small  batch. You are right, it won't cost more than letter rate to post   ;D

Mat, I would take one for the ghia  8) must come and see you soon for a pasty and a chinwag ;D

Cheers Ian! Two on the list :)
Pop round anytime dude - I'll have the kettle ready 8)
We need to tweak your motor on the rolling road soon. Can't wait to see what it puts out. Should be quite exciting  8)

I too am interested,but, i don't want to blow my tiny budget on a coil bracket.What sort of price would we be looking at ? Thanks Dave.

One more please. Just let me know.

As above but again dependent on price.

I figure on £30 each due to them being handmade. If we get ten orders I can make them for 25. A titanium bolt costs about £5 and an Ali bolt costs about £1.50  so let me know if you guys need a ti bolt or Ali or just the bracket.  I know it's not exactly cheap, but it's not made in a Chinese sweatshop - rather a Cornish pasty fueled engineer! :) Postage about £1 uk and £2 europe. U.s. £3

I thin the only way to go is with a titanium bolt.Those aluminum ones are way to heavy ;D ;D

Michael

The Ali bolt is lighter! Not as strong though, although it doesn't need to be strong as it does not do much...

Go on then put me down for one.

Matt have you moved shop yet?  As your website has gone haywire and is in microsoft latin!

Ha ha! Yes, my website is fubar! I no longer have access to it to maintain its upkeep. My web designer has moved to South Africa and is supposed to be sorting it sometime soon...
I have moved workshop to Wadebridge. Pop in sometime for a cuppa and pasty :)

Thats the arse end of Cornwall!  why didn't you move further south on the Lizard, then i could bring my mums pasties round :)

The Lizzard eh? Do you have webbed feet by any chance?  ;D

matt needs to be close to rick stiens place for his lunch  :D

Nah, but we do have the best beach in Cornwall (church cove as seen on Dr Martin)!!!! and i can walk there  :P

I guess this is the place to find more information or maybe the topic has been covered, in that case I have to drop it and search better.

Drum brakes being lighter up front than a disc setup?

Friend of mine is rebuilding a very nice car and he is weight conscious.
Now the car has regular disc brakes.
He will change for drums as he will save sevaral kilos on doing this.
In my opinion, if you are rebuilding why not get a drag-racing lightweight setup and save many kilos versus drums and stock discs.

Anyone have real comparison facts on this topic?
Suppliers? Jaycee, S&W or Lummus or other suggestions?

Thanks Andy!
...and thanks you other guys for this input. In general very good input on this thread.

I have always remembered a story about how Mark Herbert once went into the auto parts store to look at headlights.  He opened up all the brands, trying to find ones made from plastic instead of glass.  Since hearing that, I too have been searching.

I found a single one in Mexico City about 6-7 years ago, but it had the illegal French yellow lens.

Last week while in Mexico escaping winter, I stopped in at an independent VW parts store.  On the shelf were headlights.  When I picked one up, I knew the holy grail was in hand!

With the H4 bulb in place they weigh in at a flyweight 192g.  This compares to 529g for the common Bosch glass H4.  
Total savings: 674g for a pair.

[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]

Smart! Reminds me, the aftermarket, chincy, late model headlight rings are also much lighter than a factory ring. I sift through them in swap meets in search of SB12's :)

Cool story's !

Nice score Bruce, I would love to get my hands on a pair of those. Don't suppose you picked up more than one set when you were down there did you?

This thread REALLY make me wonder just how light weight you could make a "stock vw"  :)

But what would you do with them? ;)  Hint: Napoleon really HATED the British.

I've thought of that too.
There are some parts you can't lighten significantly.  The engine and trans cases.  You're not going to reduce the weight of the floor pan by much.  Or the bare body shell and doors/lids/wings.  Same goes for some suspension/steering parts.
However, many of the bolt-on bits can be lightened quite a bit.  If you went back to the parts I've been hacking up, I post the original weight and the reduced weight, then the % reduction.  I have found that 25-30% isn't too hard to cut out.  I'm guessing you might be able to apply these techniques to 40-50% of the car.  This gives a range of 80 - 125kg.  Then you'd still have a car that looked complete with all it's necessary parts.

Yeah I noticed your %'s - The IRS arm bolts where amazing!!!!! Soooooo much weight in just 2 bolts  :)

Bruce, that hint is a little too cryptic for me! apologies for wearing my stupid head. I will give it a  ;D anyway.

But seriously, if you know how/where I can get these give me a shout ;)

After conquering Europe, Napoleon decreed that everyone on the continent must switch sides of the roads.

These LHD headlights I have are "Autolux" brand, made in India.

I know this is one of their products:
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-7580
There are many details on this one that are exactly the same as the plain H4s I just got.  I don't know if this one is plastic.  This seller hasn't returned my inquiry.

Ahhh I got ya  ;D, and here am I thinking you guys drive on the wrong side of the road   ;)

The LHD need not be a problem you can buy stick on film lens divertors in Europe to correct that.

Thanks for the lead on the headlights, I suspect the backs at least are plastic, the back of the bowls look very similar to the back of the plastic (also Autolux, made in India) Rossi style headlight rings I have. Not sure about the lens though.

This might be the same manufacturer:

http://www.mamotorworkstv.com/vw/product/h4-headlight-european-style-each_361051/

The black mounting ring is similar.  The 3 tabs for adjusting are exactly the same.  It's missing the H4 in the center of the lens.  And this one has an extra bulb below the main one.  Too bad they're out of stock.

Designed and made some new caliper brackets today out of T6 aluminium for All Torque. Steel 312 grams, Ali 88 grams. A total of 448 g saved!! A fraction under a lb  8)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/15window/DSC00154.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/15window/DSC00155.jpg)

Team Royalflush with the new Wheels for 2012... ;D ;D ;D[attachment=1][attachment=2]

that looks REALLY light,those skinny wheels.

henk!!!

Yes they are...and very Nice too ;)

Schley's Lightning Bug Backing Plates
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u487/fasteddie63/TheseDays155.jpg)

There's got to be more of that on the car???

M-B, here's another part with 35% reduction:

Looks like there's room for another pair of holes inboard of the ones already there?

You're right, Zach.  The reason I didn't drill any there is because the bending moment is maximum at the point where the wing meets the body, and since I've seen the odd stock one bent, I thought I would suffer the penalty of carrying around the extra 1-2 grams.

Found this pic on another forum.  This guy is attempting to recreate Muffler Mike's experiment of watching how much oil stays in the left head at rpms.  I noticed the valve cover he sacrificed is stamped from sheet Al.  Can you imagine what that weighs?
I sent the guy a message and he only had the one, and can't remember where he got it from.  A couple of days later, he suggested maybe JC Whitney.  A search of their site yielded nothing.

Anyone know who makes this?
[attachment=1]

Hi Bruce. Has your Ti turned up yet? Regards, Matt

Just got it!

It sure is deceptive.  The strip is 30mm by 240mm, and it only weighs 15g!

Is there anyone else making a light coil bracket?

I believe Scat used to sell those years ago ...

I believe you are right, Tom!

Here's the current Scat stamped steel valve cover from their catalogue, and the one from the previous page.  The raised rectangle pressed around the bumps for the bail appear to be the same.

Ali rear axle bearing cover,both IRS and swingaxle available

IRS version weighs 141grams,dont have any stock ones here to compare though

cheers Richie

Cool. How much?

Steel: 69g
Ally: 26g

Good thinking :)

Hi,
stock swing axle one is 366g !!

Forgetting to fit them: 0g

Inlet trumpets for a GT3 V8 made from Nylon..... weigh fuck all!



(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d18/autocraft/bd19559b.jpg)

Next up is the GT3 T6 Pedals part way though the operations, but you get the Idea, I'll weigh them when there finished.

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d18/autocraft/4ca4a9ae.jpg)



busy at Taylor Machine ;)

Will you be making VW pedals??

The plastic trumpets are not a new idea.  40 years ago, Porsche installed these plastic ones on production cars.  This one got a little burnt, so it looks odd.

[attachment=1]


A few year ago where I worked, I was tasked to dispose of some redundant office furniture.  When going through one desk formerly occupied by an engineer, I found what I thought was a piece of ¼" x 1" x 18" stainless steel flat bar.  When I picked it up, it felt light.  Really light.  I've since confirmed it's Ti. My problem is, I can't think of anything for the car to make with it!  ???

Anyone got any good ideas?

Titanium steering wheel nut...

[attachment=1]

Steel steering wheel nut works out lighter:

Bugger!

Hi Guys,

I'm having some Ali floorpan washers made up. Will post a pic soon. Depending on how good they look would
anyone else be interested in some?

Lee

leec, I'd be very keen on a set. I had been thinking the same thing but hadn't got around to making them. I was also thinking titanium bolts to go with them.

Hi,

I'm picking up the first set this Friday. Will post a pic and go from there. Price will depend on quantity.

Lee

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h226/Mag001776/tn_1200_9005_JPG.jpg)

Are you sure about that, Phil?

[attachment=1]

Here's the comparison with the stock early steering column nut.
[attachment=1]

The early nut is 37g.  Even if you didn't want to join in on the sillyness of some of us, you can reduce weight by switching the early steering column nut with the late one.  It's only 26g.

Nice!  That looks a bit Ti to me?

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ljouCPlOo8M/T9tQT-mxzBI/AAAAAAAAOcE/fIvYrDAuGJk/s800/IMG_4238.jpg)

Like  ;D

Indeed!
Previously, I mentioned I had a piece of ¼x1" Ti flat bar.  That's what I used to make these nuts.
Here's the generator nut:
[attachment=1]

What else can I make from this Ti flat bar?

Gland Nut Washer ??

Crank pulley washer...

wosp motorsport starter motor 3.2kg feels pretty light whats a stock one weigh?

How are you guys making your fuel pump and dizzy block offs? must be some saving to be had there!
is EFI lighter then carbs?

really enjoyed this thread!

Pay attention in class.  From page 10 of this topic: