The Cal-look Lounge

Cal-look/High Performance => Pure racing => Topic started by: Eddie DVK on March 24, 2009, 23:16:26 pm



Title: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 24, 2009, 23:16:26 pm
Hy guys, I started on building my engine but got in to a little bit of trouble.
When I dropped the crank in the case, I coudn t align it correct, it jammed a little bit.
Turned out it jams on #2 bearings (the half ones that are in the cases), when I clossed the
case I couldn t turn the crank. (the dowel pins were placed correctly).
When I left the #2 bearings out the crank turns freely in it s bearings.

Did some measurement turns out the bearing saddles aren t aligned properly.
Seems one got a little bit inwards.
The saddles(inside) are smaller then the outside of the #2 bearings.

When I closed the Case(torqued with case studs) with out the bearings, it seems that the case stays open
on the #2 saddles.

The sad part is I brought this case, crank and rods to a respectable typ 4 business in germany to check all of
this so that they could supply me with the correct bearings. So I am a little bit pissed by this.

Did a lot of work on this case, like polishing on the inside for better airflow and some adjustments to make the CSP typ1 kit to fit
and to let the case to look more like a typ 1 case.

As you can see on the pictures there is a big gap on the left side, this is the side where also the saddles of cam bearings are.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/77988.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/77989.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/78024.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/78025.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/78026.jpg)

The pictures were taken with case closed and torqued.

Does somebody know if this can be fixed, or should I throw this away and get a new case.
Help much appreciated.

Kind regards Edgar




Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Jim Ratto on March 24, 2009, 23:26:58 pm
at my last job, we refused engine core exchanges if the # 2 saddles were "spread" like that.
Meaning they were not good to use for a rebuild.

I am not familiar withthat happening so much to T4 case though! With the strength of the T4 it must have had a hard life.

I think you need a different case.

Sorry  :-\


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: John Maher on March 25, 2009, 01:23:29 am

Does somebody know if this can be fixed, or should I throw this away and get a new case.


Looks like your crankcase suffered a major oiling issue at the centre main last time it ran.
The huge amount of heat generated can be sufficient to warp the case about the centre main (and trash the crank!).
If you have the original crank and bearings they should show obvious tell-tale signs.

Unfortunately there is no fix. The case is scrap.
Even line-boring won't solve the problem.
If you attempt to reuse the case you'll have chronic oil pressure problems from the off.

Check your next case by placing a straight edge along the case mating faces.
Any daylight above or below the centre main indicates a warped case.
Alternatively torque both case halves together as in the pics and look for gaps.




Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Udo on March 25, 2009, 06:57:19 am
Hi
I think John is right . This case is only for the junkjard , sorry to say this . A lot of people do not check the whole case before they use it . This center main saddle can not get repaired .

Udo


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 25, 2009, 07:36:17 am

Does somebody know if this can be fixed, or should I throw this away and get a new case.


Looks like your crankcase suffered a major oiling issue at the centre main last time it ran.
The huge amount of heat generated can be sufficient to warp the case about the centre main (and trash the crank!).
If you have the original crank and bearings they should show obvious tell-tale signs.

Unfortunately there is no fix. The case is scrap.

Check your next case by placing a straight edge along the case mating faces.
Any daylight above or below the centre main indicates a warped case.
Alternatively torque both case halves together as in the pics and look for gaps.




Bought this case at a swapmeet, 'cause I needed an 'open' case (CU) to fit the CSP typ 1 conversion kit.
Myself I had a CJ ('closed') engine from which I used al of the internal parts.
But the sad part about this is, that I have them(case, crank and rods) checked by a famous typ 4 business,
I would have hoped they would have told me....

Hi
I think John is right . This case is only for the junkjard , sorry to say this . A lot of people do not check the whole case before they use it . This center main saddle can not get repaired .

Udo

Well this is my first major engine build, I know now I have to check al the surfaces, I checked the outher surfaces if they weren t pried open with
screwdrivers, but didn t check the saddle surfaces.
But hey somethimes you have to learn it the hard way.

Need to find a new case then.

Jim, John and Udo thanks for the quick respones.

Kind Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Stephan32 on March 25, 2009, 16:59:47 pm
Hi Edgar,

Sorry to hear that  >:(


If you need a reliable adress pm me!


Cheers Stephan


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 08, 2009, 11:34:59 am
Ok, after some problems I am on it again.
Got me a new used case (thanks Udo).
Started building, everything fits now.
This is the short block.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/81398.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/81399.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/81400.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/81401.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/81402.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/82830.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/82832.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/82833.jpg)

And Got my heads back from Udo Becker also.
Those are bus heads with now stainless steel 42x36 valves.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/82827.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/82828.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/82829.jpg)
Very nice

Also got me a turbo thomas stailess steel header(41mm) looks very cool
some pictures later.

Plan is to have a typ 1 looking engine much like Rasser (on this forum) minus the ida s.

Now fore the long block got some questions.
Have a 316 schleicher cam with solid lifters, using Weber idf 40 carbs.
what kind off comprassion ratio must I use. (I ve been told 9.2 - 1 till 9.5 - 1 is ok) is this correct?
Using 98 octane pumpgas.

Also like to know where the gaps of the pistonrings have to be, had a picture of that but cant find it anymore.
Using light typ 1 pistons(94mm) in typ 4 barrels.

Kind Regards Edgar



Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Udo on August 08, 2009, 12:21:07 pm
I think i set the heads on that comp. up to 9,5  is ok .

Udo


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Rasser on August 08, 2009, 12:30:26 pm
NICE... more upright converted type4´s on the street ;D ;D

Size ?


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 09, 2009, 10:27:08 am
I think i set the heads on that comp. up to 9,5  is ok .

Udo

Ok thanks Udo, will do that.

NICE... more upright converted type4´s on the street ;D ;D

Size ?

thanks Rasser
Yep, we need more of those.. ;)
It s a 2.0 liter.
stock but balanced crank, stok rods, typ 1 94mm pistons, 316 schleicher cam, solid lifters, heads 42x36,
40 idf s, hoping 120-130HP....

Kind Regards Edgar
 


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Rasser on August 09, 2009, 21:10:26 pm
I think i set the heads on that comp. up to 9,5  is ok .

Udo


Sounds similar to mine. Mines also a 2L and with 42-36 heads. I am not familiar with the schleicher cams, how does the 316 convert to in the way "american" camshafts are measured (at zero valve lift)?
Did you have the rods fitted with a 22mm wrist pin bushing, and where did you buy this bushing?




Ok thanks Udo, will do that.

NICE... more upright converted type4´s on the street ;D ;D

Size ?

thanks Rasser
Yep, we need more of those.. ;)
It s a 2.0 liter.
stock but balanced crank, stok rods, typ 1 94mm pistons, 316 schleicher cam, solid lifters, heads 42x36,
40 idf s, hoping 120-130HP....

Kind Regards Edgar
 

Sounds similar to mine. Mines also a 2L and with 42-36 heads (porsche 914 2.0). I am not familiar with the schleicher cams, how does the 316 convert to in the way "american" camshafts are measured (at zero valve lift)?
Did you have the rods fitted with a 22mm wrist pin bushing, and where did you buy this bushing?


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 10, 2009, 08:59:31 am
I believe the duration is 316 and the lift is 8.50, don t know exactly how this converts to american cams.
You can buy those rods direct (exchange with own rods). so thats wath I did, bought them at BAS in germany.
Hoping that I get the same hp as you, cause yours looks good.
How many max rpm s are you turning with your engine?

Kind regards Edgar


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Udo on August 10, 2009, 11:52:10 am
I think i set the heads on that comp. up to 9,5  is ok .

Udo


Sounds similar to mine. Mines also a 2L and with 42-36 heads. I am not familiar with the schleicher cams, how does the 316 convert to in the way "american" camshafts are measured (at zero valve lift)?
Did you have the rods fitted with a 22mm wrist pin bushing, and where did you buy this bushing?




Ok thanks Udo, will do that.

NICE... more upright converted type4´s on the street ;D ;D

Size ?

thanks Rasser
Yep, we need more of those.. ;)
It s a 2.0 liter.
stock but balanced crank, stok rods, typ 1 94mm pistons, 316 schleicher cam, solid lifters, heads 42x36,
40 idf s, hoping 120-130HP....

Kind Regards Edgar
 

Sounds similar to mine. Mines also a 2L and with 42-36 heads (porsche 914 2.0). I am not familiar with the schleicher cams, how does the 316 convert to in the way "american" camshafts are measured (at zero valve lift)?
Did you have the rods fitted with a 22mm wrist pin bushing, and where did you buy this bushing?

The Schleicher cams are not good for Hp . Better use an american like Pauter , they make more torque and horses . Schleicher cams are messured at 0,33 mm lift at lobe

Udo


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Rasser on August 10, 2009, 22:51:54 pm
I have max. power at 5600-5700 rpm - 136hp/185nm

I use the webcam 494 camshaft - a really good street-cam with lots of usefull power from 2400-6000. Works really good with the tall gearing i use (3.88x0.89x 205/70-15)


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 11, 2009, 10:28:28 am

The Schleicher cams are not good for Hp . Better use an american like Pauter , they make more torque and horses . Schleicher cams are messured at 0,33 mm lift at lobe

Udo

Hm if I knew that before, would have gone with those cams,
but Udo do you know what kind of HP this set up would make?


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Udo on August 11, 2009, 11:07:45 am
The Schleicher cams make different hp . May be from 130-150 . I do not know why , i think they have different grindings . I told you about that .

Udo


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on September 21, 2009, 21:45:04 pm
Ok resumed building again (instead of going to DDD#7, otherwise it will never get finished), put the heads on, compression set at 1 : 9.5.
Try to put the rockers on and place the pushrods, but found out the pushrods are about 1 cm - 1.5 cm to short.
I swiched the hydraulic cam(and lifters) for a solid cam(and lifters) and I try to reuse the CU (hydraulic chrom moly ones) pushrods.
So is it correct that when you switch from hydraulic lifters to solid lifters that you need other puschrods, or did I do something wrong?

PS new photos will be placed later.

Kind regards Edgar



Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Udo on September 22, 2009, 18:21:26 pm
I would use the original Typ4 alu pushrods . they will fit , may be you must cut them 1-2 mm . Or put shims under the rocker shaft block

Udo


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on September 23, 2009, 17:29:22 pm
Ok thanks Udo,
I will try that, only have chromoly ones, so have to buy new ones.

Kind Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Need help on engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Doktor on September 24, 2009, 21:04:14 pm

It s a 2.0 liter.
stock but balanced crank, stok rods, typ 1 94mm pistons, 316 schleicher cam, solid lifters, heads 42x36,
40 idf s, hoping 120-130HP....

Kind Regards Edgar
 

Im not into Type 4 engines, but isn't that cam a little big with that non-cw crank ?
316 degrees is a big cam in a Type 1 world...


@ Udo: I have seen some of your engines in a "Tuning Luftgekhulte Volkswagen" book and on an example 1776ccm engine it is written stock 69mm crank...is it a stock ballanced crank or a cw-crank ?
Im asking because it is built with Pauter 296 degrees cam that is simmilar to Engle W120, right ?


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 21, 2009, 14:33:39 pm
Ok is been a while but was waiting on some parts.
So here are some promised pictures.
Mockup outside car
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/85990.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/85992.jpg)

TurboThomas header
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/85991.jpg)

Mockup inside car
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/85993.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/85994.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/85996.jpg)

And some Alu pushrods I got trough the mail
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/85995.jpg)
With the new pushrod I can finaly start finishing the engine

Keep you guys posted

Kind Regards


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Sander/DVK on November 21, 2009, 16:51:34 pm
Nice going Edgar. So it will not take so much time when you can drive the car with new engine.

Cheer,
Sander


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: 181 on November 21, 2009, 17:34:36 pm
very, very very nice! I like the "patina" on the engine tins.


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: JeePee/DVK on November 21, 2009, 19:05:08 pm
Eddie,nice work :o


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 22, 2009, 09:43:45 am
Nice going Edgar. So it will not take so much time when you can drive the car with new engine.

Cheer,
Sander

Thanks, been waiting for those pushrods for a while now, but everything is there to finish it.
so next season would be possible now.

very, very very nice! I like the "patina" on the engine tins.
hm patina, I don t know, I think they were just my dirty fingers.. :P

Eddie,nice work :o
Thanks JeePee finaly found me some time to work on it.

Kind regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: FDK/mrpedrini on November 22, 2009, 11:45:22 am
Engine is looking HARD Eddy!!!  8)   i'll have my eyes on this topic ;) good luck with the further assembly....Grts D


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Harry/FDK on November 22, 2009, 12:40:25 pm
Very Cool work Ed !, How is the fitting of the CSP cylinder shrouds ?

(PS, i'm using DTM upright cooling)


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Udo on November 22, 2009, 17:31:49 pm
Hi Eddy

With your cam it is no problem to use the original pushrods , may be they must get shortend 2 mm .
What exaust is this , A1 ?

Udo


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 22, 2009, 20:16:30 pm
Very Cool work Ed !, How is the fitting of the CSP cylinder shrouds ?

(PS, i'm using DTM upright cooling)

He Harry how are you doing.....hope to see you and the guys(MrPedrini and Ray) soon..
Well the fitting is a bit of a hell, because nothing seems to fit proper, have to grind almost everything to make it fit how I like it.
I now you re using a DTM, but sorry, I never liked the look of it, so tried the CSP conversion.

Hi Eddy

With your cam it is no problem to use the original pushrods , may be they must get shortend 2 mm .
What exaust is this , A1 ?

Udo
I know Udo, you told me but kind off hard to get, so ordered a few from overseas, forgot to ask you, if you had one, but these I can cut to lenght myself, so they will fit ok.
The header is a stainless steel one from TurboThomas from England, It s a 41mm header, took a little bit long to get, but I am pleased with the end result.

Kind Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on May 26, 2010, 09:48:23 am
Ok finaly got some work done.

The pushrods are finaly done.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/93519.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/93520.jpg)
They are in now and seem to work properly.

I am confused on what to set valvegap on these aluminuim pushrods, I saw and hear a lot of different figures...
some saying 0mm (zero) and some say 0.10mm.
Please could somebody point me into the right direction.

And another small question which sparkplugs do people use in typ 4 engines.
(had a answer from rasser what he is using in his typ 4 ''NGK B7 (can´t remember if it is ES or HS style...)'') 

Thanks in advance

Kind regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Harry/FDK on May 27, 2010, 15:51:00 pm
Hi Ed, any news lately ? (of what i learned sofar is keeping valve clearence stock with aluminum pushrods (expand/shrink) and (almost) zero with chrome-moly). But i'm still learning.


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on May 28, 2010, 08:12:39 am
He Harry (old mate ;))how are you doing.
how is your car coming along?

any news, well, find some time to work on the car again after a very cold winter in which I didnt do anything.
the engine is almost complete now, needs just some small stuff to finish it.
sparkplugs, which do you use?
some oillines.
Muffler, what system are you using?

here some finished picures
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/93574.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/93575.jpg)
It is ready to go into the car now.

Kind Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Harry/FDK on May 28, 2010, 11:53:23 am
Looking good ! I just have to do small stuff on the engine and car. I still have to start on the T4 engine for the Ghia.
I'm thinking of losing the DTM and go your way cooling wise. I love the T1 look as well. Muffler on the T1 is a Magnaflow,
but it's loud, maybe i switch to a stainless A1 style muffler.


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Arnoud on May 28, 2010, 19:40:28 pm
@Harry:I'm doing the same at this moment-in steel.I'm picking up the heads next week at Udo's.

@Eddy:nice ;D

Greets,Arnoud


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on May 30, 2010, 10:00:45 am
Thanks guys for the kind words.

Have done some other stuff.
Got a transistor ingition so the firewall is a liitle bit full on the left site so have to relocate the fuel line because I want to run a Filterking incl presure regulator and gauge.
So this would be the set up.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/91470.jpg)
So need to make a fuel line through the firewall
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/91471.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/91472.jpg)
drill some holes in the firewall
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/91473.jpg)
it s in place
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/91474.jpg)
Reroute the fuel line
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/91475.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/91476.jpg)
And how it is going to be.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/91477.jpg)

Kind regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Arnoud on May 30, 2010, 10:43:42 am
Hi Edgar!

Normally with a Cali-style conversion you would use the higher style manifold(the ones that CSP recommends),I see that you use lower(BAS?) intake manifolds.
They clear the fanhousing but what about the linkage,what system are you going to use?

Greets,Arnoud


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on May 30, 2010, 10:58:03 am
Hi Arnoud,

I bougt the BAS ones because you could fit the carbs reverse(they got four mounting holes) so that you could adjust the carbs from the inside.
But found out that if I fit them reverse they don t clear the shroud... so have to fit them normal way. Little bit a pitty... But hey...
Have A hexbar as a linkage got them with the carbs they came from a type 4. Have done a little bit of trial fitting, it seems to fit but is bit high for the
trottle cable have to look at this a bit closer...

Kind Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Harry/FDK on May 30, 2010, 15:36:47 pm
@Harry:I'm doing the same at this moment-in steel.I'm picking up the heads next week at Udo's.

@Eddy:nice ;D

Greets,Arnoud
8) 8) 8)


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on September 10, 2010, 08:21:36 am
Hell yeah...

Got the engine runnig for the first time yesterday..
after a lot of mismatch with parts and other stuff...
finaly got to turn on the switch and damn 1 try and it went on directly...
I am very pleased with that.  :) :) :)

Still got a small question I am running a CU transistor ignition, on how many degrees should this be at
idle and at 2500-3000?

some pictures how it is in
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/97997.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/97998.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/97999.jpg)

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Harry/FDK on September 10, 2010, 15:18:01 pm
Looking good Ed !!! Hope she runs well. Were did you locate the oilcooler(s). Do you run the hoses thru the shroud ? 8)


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Arnoud on September 10, 2010, 17:50:39 pm
Well done Ed!

I see that it works with the lower intake manifolds as well-nice!

Regards,Arnoud





ps.is that the economy setup there(only 1cyl.plugged in! ;D?)


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 28, 2011, 10:08:16 am
Ok it is time for an update, after this,

Finally got my engine ready an running, got it trough the APK(Dutch MOT), some fine tuning to do.
Maybe ready to go for the trip to EBI.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/108128.jpg)

Regards Edgar

And this:

Hi Jesse,
I dont no if I am going with the beetle, got a small oil leak I have to find on the front of the engine maybe flywheel seal. :(
I am going but do not no witn which car.
But if I join you, I will you let you guys know.

Kind Regards Edgar

Ok it was an oil leak on the flywheel seal (an common thing on type 4s) change it with a vitton version and did some tricks after tips how to get a good seal.
got acces to a carlift thanks to my neighbour, a lot easier then only took 3 hours this way.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/110751.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/110752.jpg)

hm a lot of oil

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/110753.jpg)

and engine in again.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/110754.jpg)

Did some carb tuning and did some driving to work(a few hunderd km s) I must say engine pulls ok I am very happy with torque in low rpms  :)

and finaly installed new rims
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/110755.jpg)

Still some km s to do than off to the dyno for some fine tuning.
But firts holiday time for me.

Kind Regards Edgar




Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: JeePee/DVK on August 28, 2011, 11:42:17 am
Happy holiday Edgar.
Grtz:JP.


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 29, 2011, 22:40:22 pm
Happy holiday Edgar.
Grtz:JP.

Thanks JP,
I will be back just before DDD, hope to be there with the beetle.

Kind Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Harry/FDK on December 13, 2011, 17:53:01 pm
Hi Edgar, any news and/or pics ?


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 13, 2011, 21:20:18 pm
He Harry as a mather affect there is.
Only forgot to post it here. :-[
Got it on a dyno in the begining of october and got the carbs sorted out.
Did 6 runs.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/113466.jpg)

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/111960.jpg)

And this is it for now:
123HP
180NM torque
Nice flat torque curve.
The HP curve is still climbing even at 6000rpms, so there is more in it, but I was afraid to go higher in rpms.

I can say I am really pleased with it, it drives very good  also in low RPMs. :)

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Harry/FDK on December 13, 2011, 21:24:10 pm
So it's a constant steady pulling Panzer ! Cool !


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 13, 2011, 21:51:37 pm
So it's a constant steady pulling Panzer ! Cool !

Yep, but I was a bit disappointed when I heard the HP (was hoping 130-140) ;), but the flat torque curve made me very happy,
this is what gets you going on the street and it does it even far above the 100km/h...

Hope is a good inspiration for you to go on Harry, if even I can (almost) finish a car :D.

Regards Edgar



Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Harry/FDK on December 13, 2011, 22:04:45 pm
"Hope is a good inspiration for you to go on Harry"

Yess!

Ed, where is that dyno guy located ? Any carburettor expierence ? IDA'S ?


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Harry/FDK on December 13, 2011, 22:15:37 pm
@Harry:I'm doing the same at this moment-in steel.I'm picking up the heads next week at Udo's.

@Eddy:nice ;D

Greets,Arnoud

Steel pics or info Arnoud..maybe pm ?


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 13, 2011, 22:28:34 pm
"Hope is a good inspiration for you to go on Harry"

Yess!

Ed, where is that dyno guy located ? Any carburettor expierence ? IDA'S ?

Dyno (one of the few that also can do 4wd cars) is located in Den Haag, is the closest to my home/barn where my (and my friensds) car is, only about 15km away.
Called Beek autoracing, they are very well known in the circuit racing cars, they did our ford sierra race car also.
Verry nice people also and they take a lot of time for you.
Don t know if they have expierence with IDA's but they do a lot old racecars with carbs (a lot of old lotus race cars also, owner races one for many years).
They also do a lot of new porsche 911s.
They where verry pleased that I came with my beetle, the owner use to drive one when he was young they even made pictures and placed them on their site.
How cool. :)

Have a site, take a look.
www.beekautoracing.nl/

http://www.beekautoracing.nl/gallery.php?id=6  ;D ;D

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Udo on December 13, 2011, 23:09:43 pm
I would go a little higher with the rpms on the dyno. With the schleicher cam may be 7000 should work for testing, these cams do not need much spring pressure

Udo


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 13, 2011, 23:26:03 pm
I would go a little higher with the rpms on the dyno. With the schleicher cam may be 7000 should work for testing, these cams do not need much spring pressure

Udo

Thanks for that info Udo, will do that next time, hoping to buy some 45 dellorto s next summer and than back on the dyno again.
Thanks for the work on the heads Udo. ;) Did not see a lot of dyno sheets with a torque curve that flat. ;D.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Rasser on December 14, 2011, 20:54:11 pm
Nice results!
Don´t be disappointed with the results, next time give it some more revs :-)

I mean no disrespect, but looking at the torque curve it doesn´t look that flat to me. If you look at it then it ranges from 50- 455. If the range was 50-250, then the curve would not look that flat. It starts at 115? then tops at 177? then goes back to 140?
Get my point? - if you narrow the range down, then the curve is not that flat.

I don´t mean this in no negative way, just trying to clear out a common mistake.

If you wan´t a flat torque curve, then look at this NA subaru conversion in a Volkswagen based Porsche Speedster - amazing!! 
Starting at 210, topping at 232, then down to 225?


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 14, 2011, 23:20:40 pm
Nice results!
Don´t be disappointed with the results, next time give it some more revs :-)

I mean no disrespect, but looking at the torque curve it doesn´t look that flat to me. If you look at it then it ranges from 50- 455. If the range was 50-250, then the curve would not look that flat. It starts at 115? then tops at 177? then goes back to 140?
Get my point? - if you narrow the range down, then the curve is not that flat.

I don´t mean this in no negative way, just trying to clear out a common mistake.

If you wan´t a flat torque curve, then look at this NA subaru conversion in a Volkswagen based Porsche Speedster - amazing!! 
Starting at 210, topping at 232, then down to 225?

No problem at all Rasser, I am open to all comments, especially to improve my performance  :).
your comment on the torque curves, I have seen a lot of type 1 curves that have a more steep curve then this... starting a lot lower then peaking and dropping fast again.
So that's why I am saying it is ''pretty flat''  ;D

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 06, 2014, 09:39:39 am
Ok, a little update back at this point again,
leaking flywheel seal.
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,21131.msg291184.html#msg291184

So engine is out again, lots of oil in the trans bellhouse

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130881.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130878.jpg)

Very wet pressure plate and clutch
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130879.jpg)

The only positive part is I always wanted a removable rear valance... so I will do this in one go.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Joe VW on March 07, 2014, 04:00:30 am
Did you replace all the galley plugs behind the flywheel with tapped threaded plugs? The stock plugs are notorious for leaking. On an assembled running engine I have removed the stock plugs and replaced them with oversized, tapered solid ones I made on a lathe. (EDIT)  I went back and saw your threaded plugs.
 If you have another case and crankshaft install the flywheel  check for run out at the seal surface. Polish the seal surface like a mirror. Make sure there are no cracks in the case especially around the oil plugs.
Also the seal needs to be installed further than flush by about 1/8" with a little oil on the seal or it will burn up.


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 07, 2014, 08:38:27 am
Did you replace all the galley plugs behind the flywheel with tapped threaded plugs? The stock plugs are notorious for leaking. On an assembled running engine I have removed the stock plugs and replaced them with oversized, tapered solid ones I made on a lathe. (EDIT)  I went back and saw your threaded plugs.
 If you have another case and crankshaft install the flywheel  check for run out at the seal surface. Polish the seal surface like a mirror. Make sure there are no cracks in the case especially around the oil plugs.
Also the seal needs to be installed further than flush by about 1/8" with a little oil on the seal or it will burn up.

Hi Joe,

Yes I did al the galley plugs.
The last time I replaced the flywheel seal, I did a little bit of polishing on the flywheel surface, will do this also
on the new ones I have.
The only thing I did was place the seal flush, (as is in the manuals) and you are the second one that says (also spanners on here) to put the seal in further... so I think I am going to do that.

Thanks for your reply.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 09, 2014, 09:54:10 am
Ok, there are a lot of holes, but it is not that hard to do.
Finaly got my removable valance.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130948.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130954.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130950.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130951.jpg)

I going to reuse the valance, because those repo sh.... don t fit at all... fu... :-\
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130953.jpg)

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 09, 2014, 10:10:08 am
Oh forgot to show, but also got me some daymoulds

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130955.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130956.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130957.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130958.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130959.jpg)

They are realy nice and perfect fit.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: andy198712 on March 09, 2014, 11:06:33 am
Hello ,
Just read the thread and its a great read, are your HP figures at the wheels?
Sorry to hear about your oil seal issues, I too have heard to fully seat the seal so have done that on a current build.
Did you have to wait long for the wings?

All the best
Andy


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 09, 2014, 12:10:17 pm
Hello ,
Just read the thread and its a great read, are your HP figures at the wheels?
Sorry to hear about your oil seal issues, I too have heard to fully seat the seal so have done that on a current build.
Did you have to wait long for the wings?

All the best
Andy

Hi Andy, no figure is at flywheel.. so not so impressive, but torque is ok.. but have some improvements in store.
Yup I will try the put the seal in fully seated.

I orded the wings through Richie on here.. I was not in a hurry, and they were at Richie for a few months before we picked them up... so..

Regards Edgar
 


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: andy198712 on March 09, 2014, 18:58:58 pm
i used an old oil seal to sink mine in till it bottomed out which wasn't far.

i don't know, a lot of people talk about numbers but i bet it FEELS fast!! i would just not get caught up with numbers  ;)


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 10, 2014, 08:39:52 am
OK, I thought I will make this easy to refit, so drilled some 6mm holes before I drilled out all the spotwelds, so when I refit the valance it is still properly aligned as it was stock mounted.

Here you can see the holes.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130954.jpg)

And remounting the valance is now an easy job...you can see the M6 bolts in place
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130971.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/130970.jpg)

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 16, 2014, 09:48:58 am
Ok found the cause of the leak, the small outer lip is ripped of the seal... :'(
Old mechanic told me when they had this the seal was to far out.... comfirms then what Spanners, Joe and Andy are saying.

You can see the ripped pieces laying in the webbing of the case
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/131152.jpg)

Incl. pieces of the seal
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/131153.jpg)

A bit difficult to see..
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/131154.jpg)

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 02, 2014, 09:33:21 am
Ok to make the forum alive again, here an update.

After the 3th flywheel seal leak, I went ahead and bought some extra flywheels.
Choose to go with a nos 200mm one, sent it away to have it lightend and balanced.
Put the new flywheel seal al the way in after some advise on here.
Hopes this will hold longer then 500km this time. Fingers crossed.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134836.jpg)

When it is out of the garage again, I use it as a daily driver in the summer.
Going to look if this cools like it is advertised.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134835.jpg)

Ok went further ahead with the removable rear valance, trimmed some stuf of the valance to make it easier to refit.
Repainted everything to make it look shiny again.
Made a plate to tighten the valance good between wings and body.
Also made some carb windows for more excess for carb tuning.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134831.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134832.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134837.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134838.jpg)

Made some brackets to the inner body to fit a engine hanger, because of the exhaust set up, nothing normal will fit so made my own,
see how this works out.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134834.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134833.jpg)

Fitting the engine is now a brease, the type 4 is a little to big to get in/out without removing almost everything from the engine.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134840.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134844.jpg)

And gathering some parts and playing around for my future engine build 4inch type 4 engine. those are the famous Deutz 100mm cilinders.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134845.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134842.jpg)

Only thing to do is weleding some holes in the front floor, those will follow later.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: BeetleBug on December 02, 2014, 09:46:24 am
Excellent update, thanks! I like your engine mounts a lot.

Best rgs
BB


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 13, 2014, 10:40:46 am
It is a bit shaby enginehanger (selfmade), but it works  :P
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134966.jpg)

Engine is almost coplete again
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134968.jpg)

And some new parts for future.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134967.jpg)

With new 22mm bush installed and ARP2000 bolts
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134969.jpg)



Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Jesse Wens on December 13, 2014, 13:14:57 pm
hey Eddie,

Can you tell a bit about the oilpump? looks like a realy nice piece


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: spanners on December 13, 2014, 16:57:27 pm
It is a bit shaby enginehanger (selfmade), but it works  :P
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134966.jpg)
I don't think your engine hanger is shabby at all, it's an original and well thought out item, far better than a shop bought item anyone can buy.
Well done, We need more new ideas to stop everything looking like the same person built them all.


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 13, 2014, 20:24:38 pm
hey Eddie,

Can you tell a bit about the oilpump? looks like a realy nice piece

There was a guy on e-bay.de that makes his own type 4 oilpumps with bigger gears. Just saw them on a other forum, and thought well lets try it.
It s a 30mm version, housing made out of allu.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134978.jpg)

It is a bit shaby enginehanger (selfmade), but it works  :P
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134966.jpg)
I don't think your engine hanger is shabby at all, it's an original and well thought out item, far better than a shop bought item anyone can buy.
Well done, We need more new ideas to stop everything looking like the same person built them all.

Thank you, but there wasn t one that cleared my header/oilfilter/oilfiller, so had to make one of my own.  ;D


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: richie on December 16, 2014, 14:18:22 pm
Nice, good to see you keep working on it 8)  Like that you figured out your own engine hanger as well, looks like it will do the job

cheers Richie


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 29, 2014, 10:32:57 am
Ok made some progress.

The end result, this is why I neede to built one myself, it now cleares the header.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/135129.jpg)

Also made my own engine bay cover out of sheet alu.. to keep the hot air out of the engine bay.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/135130.jpg)

and one extra, because I like it  :P
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/135131.jpg)

Ok now on to the front.. have to weld some small holes in the framehead..

Regards edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: andy198712 on December 29, 2014, 17:09:11 pm
Looks good!


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 08, 2015, 11:03:58 am
Ok small update.
After installing the engine and placing everything back, I had an new frontbeam that I wanted to place.
So removed the old beam and was checking the framehead a little, started cleaning the framehead and discovered some holes..
Those are typical due to the western Europe climate. but this wasn t planned.
So tried to weld it myself but due to the lack of a carlift... it is hard to weld, laying on the floor..
Well also I am just learning to weld... But after trying a few times decided to not do it myself.
A few of my vw buddies have good experience with https://www.facebook.com/pages/Autolas-Restauratiebedrijf-HB-van-Kranen/113614605394018
and I do know him a little so made an appointment.
Good service and good result, I am very happy with the result. because I can now drive my beetle this summer.  :)

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/135980.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/135979.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/135981.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/135978.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/135977.jpg)

So still need to place the new beam, but will do this in the coming months when time allows.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: thehanz DVK on March 08, 2015, 16:15:18 pm
Nice to see it up and running Eddie let's do Some meetings this year


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 09, 2015, 08:07:57 am
Nice to see it up and running Eddie let's do Some meetings this year

That is the plan Hans  ;)


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: brian e on March 09, 2015, 16:41:31 pm
I love the car, and I would like to see more on the Deutz cylinder swap!!!!    ;)


Title: Re: Engine build (typ 4)
Post by: Tom G. on March 30, 2015, 12:37:34 pm
Ok finaly got some work done.

The pushrods are finaly done.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/93519.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/93520.jpg)
They are in now and seem to work properly.

I am confused on what to set valvegap on these aluminuim pushrods, I saw and hear a lot of different figures...
some saying 0mm (zero) and some say 0.10mm.
Please could somebody point me into the right direction.

And another small question which sparkplugs do people use in typ 4 engines.
(had a answer from rasser what he is using in his typ 4 ''NGK B7 (can´t remember if it is ES or HS style...)'') 

Thanks in advance

Kind regards Edgar



Are these Aircooled.net alu pushrods? Where can i get these better pushrods?
I know the other cheap alu HD pushrod stuff is waste of money...

Thanks
Bye
Tom


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 30, 2015, 19:09:08 pm
Yes they are the alu ones from aircoolednet.
Don t know if they still have them.


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 22, 2015, 13:48:16 pm
Ok Small update.

I like to corner my car normally, so I like to brace my front suspension.
My old beam is getting a bit shabby, so found a replacement beam, a stronger version out of a Kubel/ 181 / trekker
it has a welded box over the shock towers and does have standard front end stiffeners.
Because the bottom plate off a 181 is a bit different, I have adjusted the front stiffeners a bit, welded a plate over them to lengthen them so they will fit to the A frame bolts now.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/136765.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/136766.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/136767.jpg)
Have to dril some holes in them and then they are ready for paint and placement.

I will post some pictures of the complete set up when finished.
Time to get it on the road again.


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: stevenery on April 24, 2015, 06:51:24 am
With new 22mm bush installed and ARP2000 bolts
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134969.jpg)

Who was your supplier on these rods?

Cheers,
Steven


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 24, 2015, 11:36:07 am
Hello Steven,

They are from EMW (http://www.europeanmotorworks.com/).
The there are some e-bay shops that have them too.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on May 14, 2015, 09:02:40 am
Ok ready for Dutch MOT.
Is good for 2 years again.
New front axle is in with front stiffeners... a bit hard to see.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/137033.jpg)


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on May 15, 2015, 10:35:59 am
I can drive again, have new MOT.  ;D

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/137054.jpg)


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: thehanz DVK on May 15, 2015, 10:48:20 am
Well done see you soon then ....


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on October 01, 2015, 10:40:29 am
Ok, remember this
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/134835.jpg)

I have to say I think it works, have done a lot of driving this summer, we had a 'hot' summer for the Netherlands a lot of days with 25 dgr Celsius temps.
In city driving the oil temps just stay at around 80 dgr celc. even on some really hot days..
Did a few long trips in warm temps with 3 hours plus of highway driving (120km/h with long gearbox) and the oil temp never exceeds 100 dgr celc.

So my guess it gives you a 5 - 10 dgr celc. reduction in oil temps. (ok the 10 is maybe a little to high but it is between 5 and 10 somewhere)

The fun part is I don t have any sound deafening in my car and you can really hear it sucking in air, which I didn t hear before  :).

Regards Edgar

Just a reminder, I don t have a extra oil cooler just a type 4 cooler in the shroud


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on October 05, 2015, 10:50:28 am
Ok,

I think one of the last nice days off the year to take it for a drive.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/138444.jpg)

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/138446.jpg)

Now back in the garage, maybe for some winter updates


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: richie on October 05, 2015, 14:49:09 pm
Ok,

I think one of the last nice days off the year to take it for a drive.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/138444.jpg)

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/138446.jpg)

Now back in the garage, maybe for some winter updates

Looks really good Eddie 8)

Winter upgrades? Type 1?   ;D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: brian e on October 05, 2015, 17:05:28 pm
Ok,

Now back in the garage, maybe for some winter updates

I am waiting to see the Deutz cylinders finished!!   8)


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on October 06, 2015, 12:39:58 pm

Looks really good Eddie 8)

Winter upgrades? Type 1?   ;D

cheers Richie

Whahaha  :D No Richie, I stick with the Type 4. You need someone you can sell those type 4 stuff you sometimes have, that you don t need, to.  ;)
Have some new internal components that I like to try, more revs, higher CR and bigger carbs, try to squees more horsepower out of this set up.

Ok,

Now back in the garage, maybe for some winter updates

I am waiting to see the Deutz cylinders finished!!   8)

Yeah I am waiting too but it is not going very fast with those cylinders at the moment.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 23, 2015, 14:37:51 pm
Ok small update.

Never liked that the oil hoses are visible in the engine bay, they go into the front of the shroud, but at the time didn t know how to do it proper.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/135130.jpg)

Now I tried to make them not visible in engine bay anymore, so try to route them to the back of the shroud, but ran into some clearance problems. Engine / gearbox bolts don t clear.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/138959.jpg)

So machined the oilcooler adapter down as far as possible.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/138964.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/138963.jpg)

Ok bolts are clear now.

But now the next banjobolts don t clear.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/138960.jpg)

So made a small indentation in enginecase flange
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/138966.jpg)
Tried a few times till I had enough clearance
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/138962.jpg)

Happy for now.  ;D


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 23, 2015, 14:40:39 pm
So now reroute the oilhoses and test if they don t leak.
And weld the holes in the front shroud.

Regards edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 08, 2015, 20:11:00 pm
Ok,
tried some welding, not the best work yet  ;), but this is just in the back
When you flip the cooler, the cooler inlet 'hole' need welded shut.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/139206.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/139207.jpg)

The holes where the hoses use to be welded shut...
a bit better then the back  ;D
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/139208.jpg)

The back trimmed to the right shape.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/139209.jpg)

Getting it smooth for paint
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/139210.jpg)

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/139211.jpg)

Almost ready for normal black paint.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on January 24, 2016, 10:30:21 am
Ok, not a lot off pace in it at the moment but some progress.
Gpt the cooler back in the shroud and test fitted the hoses.
Not a lot of room on the leftside of the engine compartement so
will route the oilhoses to the rightside..
Will need a little bit more hose then.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/139691.jpg)

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/139692.jpg)

Hope this will give me a cleaner looking engine bay.


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Arnoud on January 24, 2016, 11:29:44 am
Hi Eddy!

I recon you don't use the car during winter?Otherwise you could opt to use the oilcooler-heat to warm the cabin.This will be what I'll do to my bug.
Keep up the good work!

Cheers,Arnoud


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on January 26, 2016, 22:52:18 pm
Arnoud,

You are right I don t use my car during the winter,
I don t have heating, But I do use the fan of the Type 4 engine.
Under my back seat. Works realy great.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/128036.jpg)
Because my car is of 73 I need fresh air on the windshield (by law in Holland).


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 14, 2016, 08:16:11 am
Nice weather is coming.
Just a little cleaning, and now putting everything back together again.

You can see on the right were the oilhoses are leaving the engine bay.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/140757.jpg)

Broen  ;), is this ok so?

It is not completely in the middle on 1-2 side either.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: broen messiaen on March 14, 2016, 19:29:22 pm
yep, now i see it's the same way as with mine engine.

have bought a 30hp fanhouse for doghouse cooler and I will use the air that goes through the stock cooler (with i don't use) to go extra to the thirth cilinder.
and I have also thought about mounting a Y-pieces to the inside of the csp tin so he air goes over the entire head (some of the original tin has that)

thanks


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 15, 2016, 11:38:30 am
Hi,
well I have used the 30hp doghouse cooler also but modified it to fit a type 4 cooler in it.
I don't have a issue with oil temperature, but I am not sure what my head temperature is at
the #3 cylinder.
But I have used all the tricks to have enough cooling (cool air) in my engine bay, used the cabrio hood with
extra holes behind the license plate, use the velocity ring behind the shroud and made the proper plating to keep the warm
air from under my car not entering the engine bay..

I bought the velocity ring at http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/cylinder_air_vanes.html
they also have the vanes, Y -pieces, that you talk about.

Hope this helps

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: broen messiaen on March 24, 2016, 11:01:00 am
Hello Eddie,
Thanks for the info.
I'm almost ready with my cooling tin. This is how i did it:

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160324/b65736202730097c292d86beb6f238b7.jpg)
This way the air that normally goes throug the cooler goes toward the 3'cilinder head.

Now back on topic for your build
Greeting.


Title: Re: Late Looker (typ 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 30, 2016, 07:43:05 am
Ok,
everything is back together and until now no oil leaks.
So ready to go.


Never liked that the oil hoses are visible in the engine bay, they go into the front of the shroud, but at the time didn t know how to do it proper.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/135130.jpg)

Now I tried to make them not visible in engine bay anymore, so try to route them to the back of the shroud.


No oil hoses in engine bay anymore, me happy.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/140940.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/140939.jpg)

Oh and made some an adjustment to the gas pedal.. the plastic bus/wheel was a little broke. so made a new one from allu.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/140938.jpg).

I think it is ready for the summer.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 27, 2017, 10:29:06 am
Ok, not many updates, to much work and no fun..
Tried something with the interior... blacked out the trim, and had and old 70 vw steering wheel which I like to try..
Should I black the steering wheel also..?
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/143533.jpg)

Next thing, Still gathering engine parts for a more potent engine.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: thehanz DVK on April 27, 2017, 12:18:57 pm
Nice Eddie.... I would paint the steering wheel black , but that's up to your OWN taste off course


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Stevo_L on April 28, 2017, 19:31:27 pm
I'd paint the pedals  ;D


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 29, 2017, 08:12:02 am
I'd paint the pedals  ;D

Whahaha noooooo... they came with the car like this.... kinda like them... :D ;D


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on May 22, 2017, 17:24:54 pm
Ok black it is, that is my old steering wheel that I painted.
 ;D ;D


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on February 24, 2018, 17:23:14 pm
Ok have been collecting parts for a 4 inch type 4 engine.
Won t be 101.6 though, found me a perfect set of JE 100mm pistons that fit right in the 100 Deutz cylinders.
[attachment=2]

Oh also found a welded crank from DPR 55mm taps
[attachment=3]

So will be 76.4 x 100 making it 2400cc

also have H beam 22 mm piston pen for the crank.
Will also have thorsten pieper type 1 cam followers.

Try to update here or make a new topic of it.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on February 25, 2018, 10:44:23 am
Ok,

This is the plan, been collecting parts. Hope I have enough spare time to do this this summer.
76.4 DPR Counterweighted welded crank with 55mm taps (66mm Rod taps)
ADV performance 133mm H beam rods (22mm piston pen)
Deutz cilinders 100mm
Type 4 100mm JE pistons
Webcam 86b 108 degr lobe center
Thortsten Pieper type 1 cam followers(56gr)
Thortsten Pieper tapered push rods.
NOS 45 Dellorto carbs.
Will be using my current heads 42x36 (stainless steel 8mm stem valves).
30mm ADV oil pump.
Will be 2400cc.
Will try to update the built here.

Wanted to built a 4 inch engine (101.6mm) , but costs of machining the deutz cilinders and 4 inch pistons was a little bit to steep.
When i came across the 100mm JE pistons for cheap on e-bay.. the choice was made easy for me.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145112.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145104.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145102.jpg)



Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on February 25, 2018, 10:45:24 am
Oh try to do most of the work myself.
Already prepared a CJ case for type 1 lifters.
Modified the rockers for 10 mm swivel feet adjusters.
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145113.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145114.jpg)


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Neil Davies on February 25, 2018, 12:39:32 pm
Those pistons were a lucky find! I've never had a type 4 motor apart (owned 3 of them in buses though!) so I'm interested in the build. May as well keep it here - keeps it all together!


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 10, 2018, 10:07:30 am
Ok the parts I gathered so far.

Deutz test cylinder on spec of a 94mm
The ProsSeal came with the pistons
H beam for 66mm tap (55mm/133mm lenght) on top. under H-beam for the 71mm tap (50mm/131mm lenght).
Bushes to adjust the type 4 case for type 1 cam followers
10mm Swivelfeet
The piston pen 22mm fits the H-beam
Webcam cam
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145149.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145153.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145150.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145151.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145152.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145154.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145155.jpg)

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on May 20, 2018, 09:29:55 am
Some more parts.
Try to keep the engine parts light.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145422.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145423.jpg)

I think i got al the parts now.



Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 12, 2018, 09:08:59 am
Hangarz last sunday.
I did not make the pictures, they are from facebook

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145502.jpg)
(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145501.jpg)


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on September 29, 2018, 10:40:26 am
Ok,

Fall/winter is coming so I am starting with machining parts for this engine.
But a question, what would you guys suggest for the sizes to machine the heads and case for the 100 mm cilinders?

I can machine the deutz cilinder in whatever size I want so.
Case is now still standard 100mm
Heads still standard 105mm

I have found some info on cilinder sizes and case and heads sizes
Type 4 Empi 100mm - case 106mm - heads 108mm
Type 4 LN Nickies 100mm - case 108.5 - heads 115mm
Type 4 AA 103mm - case 109mm - heads 115mm
Type 4 Mahle 103mm - case 106.8 - heads 112mm

So what are you guys think also considering good sealing for the heads with the 100mm pistons/cilinder.

Thanks in regards


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 14, 2018, 12:52:05 pm
Collecting the last stuff to complete the engine.  ;D

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/145904.jpg)

Thorsten Pieper Tool steel lifters
 


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on November 14, 2018, 13:07:38 pm
I would go as big as possible on OD on the cylinders.

If you then want to bore the cylinders out later, you are still good to go.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: modnrod on November 16, 2018, 09:27:26 am
Can I please ask what engine the 10mm swivelfeet come from?

I've got type 1 rockers with 10mm adjusters ready and waiting ........  8)


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 16, 2018, 10:44:25 am
Can I please ask what engine the 10mm swivelfeet come from?

I've got type 1 rockers with 10mm adjusters ready and waiting ........  8)

The first ones that people used where I believe from a Mercedes engine.
But you can just order them from TP
http://www.tp-technologie.de/produkte%20ventileinstellsch.htm

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on January 03, 2019, 13:40:52 pm
Ok need a bit of help.
Some say de CB650 valve springs are a bit of an overkill for my cam/light cam followers, and that I can get away with
single springs with that cam and light parts.

So would this be a n option than?
https://www.csp-shop.com/en/engine/valve-springs-109-623-010jpm-24961a.html

Other question can I get the spring pressure up by shimming the valve springs to the correct spec for the cam?
Help appreciated.

Reegards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on January 03, 2019, 13:43:08 pm
Engine is out,
So ready to start building the new engine.  :P




Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on January 03, 2019, 15:11:50 pm
Ok need a bit of help.
Some say de CB650 valve springs are a bit of an overkill for my cam/light cam followers, and that I can get away with
single springs with that cam and light parts. (TP type 1 lifters, Webcam 86b)

So would this be a n option than?
https://www.csp-shop.com/en/engine/valve-springs-109-623-010jpm-24961a.html

Other question can I get the spring pressure up by shimming the valve springs to the correct spec for the cam?
Help appreciated.

Reegards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on January 03, 2019, 18:51:21 pm
.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 10, 2019, 19:03:34 pm
Ok got Al the parts now.
Went with JPM single springs + Titanium retainers, on advise of Johannes.
Busy with cleaning of the case.
The case / heads are ready to be machined.
Using the heads of 2.0 engine, only 10.000 km on them.
Valves were not leaking... Never cc the heads, did this now they are off...
They are all 45cc just what I was told when I had them built for the 2.0 engine. ;D


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 24, 2019, 09:48:07 am
Had some time to go to my friend, he has a ships engine repair shop.
Made the test deutz cylinder to the size I wanted.
1 step closer to building.

PS I now this is not the correct way to cut the cylinders, but this is the test cylinder.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 25, 2019, 14:23:48 pm
After some info and advice, I am going for heads 113mm and case 107mm (106mm).
So Cylinders will be 0.2mm less.
Removed a little bit to much from bottom... but this is the test Cylinder.
And haven t decided yet if I go 107 or 106mm..


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 07, 2019, 07:55:24 am
Ok a small question, on a carb engine when do you need a bigger fuel line, when is the original 6mm fuel line not sufficient anymore?
Is there some rule of thumb?

I know for Injection you need a bigger one plus return.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on April 07, 2019, 10:51:30 am
.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 15, 2019, 07:16:41 am
Ok will try to route a bigger Fuel line from the front to the back...

The parts are out for machining, but I don t think I will have the new engine ready before season start,
so decided to put my old engine together, with some standard CU heads.
Had some extra stuff laying around like H beams.
Crank rotates smooth in the case, camshaft also..


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 16, 2019, 06:56:04 am
Drops right in the old engine, little cleaning, new bearings, new rods...


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 09, 2019, 08:39:34 am
Ok lapping the valves… for the old 2.0 engine  will be running this season..
If you look close, I also lapped the cilinders on this one…

Finally can pick up my case and heads for the 2.4 engine... but don t think it will be ready this season..

It is in, ready to fire up this weekend.
[attachment=1]


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 09, 2019, 08:59:27 am
Am curieus what this will bring. A little modifications to my old 2.0 engine.
Using the heads for the 2.4 engine build.

Throw in some parts I had lying around.
Lighter H beam Rods, standard CU heads 39 x 33mm valves, new valve guides, a few new valve seats, lapped the valves and valve seats,
flycut the head 1 mm, deck height on old engine was to big... so set deck height now at 1.25mm this will bump compression to 1 : 9.7 now.

Fingers crossed it will fire up.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on June 09, 2019, 09:24:44 am
9.7.1. looking good.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 09, 2019, 10:05:46 am
9.7.1. looking good.

Thanks, hope it will do the trick


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 09, 2019, 17:23:29 pm
It s in and has oil pressure
[attachment=2]
and alive and no strange sounds.. ;D :)


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: richie on June 09, 2019, 17:48:02 pm
It s in and has oil pressure
[attachment=2]
and alive and no strange sounds.. ;D :)


I bet it makes some noise with no muffler on it :o ;D  Nice one for getting it finished, now you can enjoy it for summer 8)


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: brewsy on June 09, 2019, 21:01:23 pm
Had some time to go to my friend, he has a ships engine repair shop.
Made the test deutz cylinder to the size I wanted.
1 step closer to building.

PS I now this is not the correct way to cut the cylinders, but this is the test cylinder.

Hi Eddie,
Would you be able to explain whats wrong with your method and what the 'correct' method is??

Thanks
Marc


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 10, 2019, 06:53:58 am
It s in and has oil pressure
[attachment=2]
and alive and no strange sounds.. ;D :)


I bet it makes some noise with no muffler on it :o ;D  Nice one for getting it finished, now you can enjoy it for summer 8)

Hahaha well a bit but my shed is just outside of the city... so no harm done  ;D
Yeah well a bit later than expected... but yep... making it ready for the summer..


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 10, 2019, 07:00:24 am
Had some time to go to my friend, he has a ships engine repair shop.
Made the test deutz cylinder to the size I wanted.
1 step closer to building.

PS I now this is not the correct way to cut the cylinders, but this is the test cylinder.

Hi Eddie,
Would you be able to explain whats wrong with your method and what the 'correct' method is??

Thanks
Marc

Well if you clamp it like this in the vise of the lathe it leaves marks you can not hone out.
But this being a test cylinder it did not matter.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: brewsy on June 10, 2019, 20:54:19 pm

Hi Eddie,
Would you be able to explain whats wrong with your method and what the 'correct' method is??

Thanks
Marc

Well if you clamp it like this in the vise of the lathe it leaves marks you can not hone out.
But this being a test cylinder it did not matter.
[/quote]

DOH.
Gotcha


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on July 16, 2019, 08:30:26 am
Ok did some mileage on the engine. (EBI about 800 km trip)
Found out some interesting stuff.

This is the 2.0 engine minus the heads, so same engine as before but with standard CU heads (using the other heads for the 2.4 engine)
So standard 39x33 valves.
Deckheight now 1.25 mm compression stayed the same 9.5/6 static.
First things i noticed it does not like a lot of advance of the distributer, had to turn it down from 31 to 28degrees..
You could feel it pinging on high RPM s.

I use Porsche swivel feet….. damn those are hard to adjust...for some reason it is difficult to put the feeler gauge between the valves
and the swivel feet because of constant moving of the 'head'... but ok..
Did a few 100 km then adjusted them to 0.10 mm … well for some reason the engine does not like this…
not pulling strong anymore…. feels very lazy.. so did put the back to 0.15 and power was back....
A bit strange for me that this small adjustment had so much influence..
Using alu pushrods… so thinking they don t like tight valve clearance on type 4 engines.

And how did it pull, well it is pulling as hard as the old engine in low RPMs, only lacking the power above 5200 rpms, than the power is gone..
It is moving to little air I think with the small valves to keep pulling till 6500 like with the old heads..

It is a very nice bottom pulling engine now...
Ooh it is also a lot quitter..  

Enjoying it this summer, building the other for next year...


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 14, 2019, 09:21:58 am
Ok still playing around with adjustments.
Placed some bigger vent, now 30, to incorporate with the main and air jets.
But I have a question for the type 4 guys, is there a limit to the revs a standard CU head (39x33 valves) can turn?
Because after all adjustments it won t rev above 5200 RPM s.

Need some info on this
Thanks in regards


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on August 14, 2019, 12:43:09 pm
30 vents are small
The 33 exhaust valves are also small. If your on oval exhaust ports they also will only flow so much air and are a known restriction. The rectangle exhaust port on later heads are a lot bigger and are less of a restriction.
The inlet ports flow better than the exhaust ports on standard heads, they don't match each other for flow
I use 36mm vents in the 40 dells and spent weeks opening up the oval exhaust ports and thinning out the inner diameter of the header to match the new size of the ports.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 15, 2019, 07:24:37 am
Thanks for the info,

The CU have the rectangle exhaust ports.
This is an in between engine, so tried if certain parts work... But the standard valve head is to restrictive for a performance cam and specs it looks.
Pulls reals strong down low, revs real fast, and drives really easy... but there is apparently a max on the revs...  Good to know..

Yeah tried 34 vents, but they gave a dip when you floored it... does not react well to the throttle pedal. (could also be because of the big main and air jets ::))
So went back to 30.

Trying stuff and learning stuff  ;D ;)


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on August 15, 2019, 11:58:22 am
I would leave the 34 vents in and work on the Jetting. 30mm is 9mm smaller than the inlet It should be in the 4-5 mm smaller range which is 34mm.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 16, 2019, 06:57:56 am
I would leave the 34 vents in and work on the Jetting. 30mm is 9mm smaller than the inlet It should be in the 4-5 mm smaller range which is 34mm.

Thanks, ok will have a look at that... still learning what mods will have a certain effect on things..


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: nicolas on August 16, 2019, 07:41:36 am
I would leave the 34 vents in and work on the Jetting. 30mm is 9mm smaller than the inlet It should be in the 4-5 mm smaller range which is 34mm.

not that I know what a type4 needs but on a type1 this sounds correct.
from what I know smaller vents are 'easier' to make power with and less stumble, but limiting in higher RPMs. a bigger vent in this case should be made to work and yes you will have to play a bit to get the bottom response back. good luck.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on August 16, 2019, 11:44:18 am
36mm vents are the biggest made for dell 40s. I'm gunna explore the size limits of vents in a 40 by enlarging the 36's I use now. will go to 38 and see what happens. with the 42 inlets 38 vents should be correct .


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on August 16, 2019, 12:07:38 pm
Thing is with big vents is that it makes a lean hole between the idle jet and the main jet. Big vents lessen the signal to switch the mains on. You need to fill that lean hole with bigger AIR jets. Possibly emulsion tube changes too.
An AFR gauge is a useful tool, it will show you when the idles finish. The digital numbers will go up in value. 12,13,14,15 and so on. when the mains come in you will see 15,14,13,12 etc.

Also something I realised with a type 4 is that if you want a low cc type 4 to be like the same cc type 1 in terms of power/fun its not going to happen, I was disappointed with my 1911 to be fair and did a lot of head work etc,it was like a slug, the 1914cc type 1's  in the past were a lot better. like night and day.
For me putting a turbo on it was the best way to get a hot VW.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on October 28, 2019, 15:08:21 pm
Ok, back working on the engine.
Was just comparing cases (type 4) and saw a difference I never noticed before.
The ally stops (for the oil channels) that are in the cases on the left case halfs are different from each other, something I never saw before.
On the right is an EA case from a 914 1.7 engine, on the left is an AN case, which is the same as my other cases I used/have CU, CJ and GB case.
The right case has one oil stop (hole) less then the left one.

Any reason for this?????


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 23, 2019, 13:06:44 pm
1 step further, placing the sleeves for type 1 lifters.
So the Pieper lifters will operate perfectly.
[attachment=1]


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on November 24, 2019, 09:57:57 am
Looking good. Those 2 threaded plugs in the pic, I use those as an in/out for an external filter and delete the original filter mount to make that area a bit neater.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 24, 2019, 10:31:39 am
Looking good. Those 2 threaded plugs in the pic, I use those as an in/out for an external filter and delete the original filter mount to make that area a bit neater.

I like that solution too.
But you loose the oil pressure bypass, I don t know if i want that.
Do you have a solution for that?


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on November 24, 2019, 11:58:21 am
I haven't found it to be a problem.
Plus
I have the piping as follow
Out of case
Into filter. Located on rear bumper mount
Out of filter
Into oil cooler over gearbox
Out of cooler into upright type 1 cooler
Out of type 1 cooler back into case.
You will need a non return valve as I did.
The original type 4 cooler has a block off plate that has a loop on it, so oil can circulate at that point.
This might read as being complicated but it isn't.
The main mod of drilling and tapping the plugs on your case has been done.
Mines been this way for 10 yrs.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 25, 2019, 08:00:24 am
Thanks,
good info, will look in to this.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on November 25, 2019, 13:34:53 pm
For the upright cooler I use a doghouse cooler mount that's had the oil holes underneath welded up and threaded unions at the back of the mount fitted for oil in / oil out.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 30, 2019, 08:56:06 am
Yet another question, I like to install the CSP Type 1 10mm chromoly head studs, but I can not find casesavers from M12x1.5 to M10.
Does somebody sell those?

I can find the casesavers to M8, but then the question is are those head studs strong enough for my set up?

Thanks in regards


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Garrick Clark on November 30, 2019, 09:49:56 am
.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on January 19, 2020, 08:20:02 am
Got me some old school rocker covers.
Scored on the samba  ;D ;D


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 07, 2020, 08:42:47 am
Ok will try it here also
Can somebody tell the brand of these 'Nickies'?
They are all aluminium. (no Biral)
These are the only markings I can find.
These are 100mm ones
Head size 114.75 mm
Case size 108.52 mm



Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on March 07, 2020, 10:41:57 am
Nickies from LN Engineering?

https://lnengineering.com/

These are 105mm from LN.

[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 07, 2020, 11:16:33 am
Whooo thanks Mikko for those pictures..

Mine look a bit different then your pictures, doesn t have 5 cooling ribs on the head side,
and has less cooling fins overal.
So don t think mine are LN nickies.

An Other member pointed me to QSC ones... now I checked the cooling fins I am tempting to
think they are QSC.

But please keep ideas coming.

Thanks


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on March 07, 2020, 11:52:48 am
👍


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 09, 2020, 06:57:18 am
It is Decision time,

Got 2 options, everything else is ready so can start building.
But really don t know what to choose.
The well known tough Deutz cylinders or the QSC aluminium Cylinders.
Maybe you guys have some experience with both or just the one.
Disadvantages or advantages???

Like to hear from you?

Thanks in advance
Eddie
[attachment=1]


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 20, 2020, 15:05:55 pm
Ok got a question for the specialists,

I want to kmow if this comprsession ratio will work or you guys say, that s a no no.
Building a 78 x 100 engine with 48cc chamber heads with a webcam 86b Lobecenter 108.
The advertised compression ratio is about 9.5:1 for this cam.
But with a (preferd) 1.3mm deckhight my ratio will be 11.5:1. we have 98 gasoline.
But would this compression ratio be ok?

Thanks in advance
Eddie

Ps it got all the light parts in there JE pistons TP type 1 lifters Hbeam rods, balanced counterweigted crank.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on November 20, 2020, 16:17:41 pm
It is Decision time,

Got 2 options, everything else is ready so can start building.
But really don t know what to choose.
The well known tough Deutz cylinders or the QSC aluminium Cylinders.
Maybe you guys have some experience with both or just the one.
Disadvantages or advantages???

Like to hear from you?

Thanks in advance
Eddie
[attachment=1]

Sorry that I haven’t noticed this before.

I would use aluminium ones. Gets heat away better.
But you need to clear out that you have right kind of piston rings to use with these cylinders.

Deutz cylinders have been used also and they are fine too.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on November 20, 2020, 16:21:47 pm
Ok got a question for the specialists,

I want to kmow if this comprsession ratio will work or you guys say, that s a no no.
Building a 78 x 100 engine with 48cc chamber heads with a webcam 86b Lobecenter 108.
The advertised compression ratio is about 9.5:1 for this cam.
But with a (preferd) 1.3mm deckhight my ratio will be 11.5:1. we have 98 gasoline.
But would this compression ratio be ok?

Thanks in advance
Eddie

Ps it got all the light parts in there JE pistons TP type 1 lifters Hbeam rods, balanced counterweigted crank.


Street use? Drag race only? What kind of heads and valve sizes? Efi / carbs? Exhaust?


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 21, 2020, 12:06:48 pm
Thanks Mikko,

Cal look so mostly street and sometimes strip
Heads ported with 42/36, 45 Dellorto carbs and turbo thomas 42/41mm merged header
Programmable ignition.

Hope this helps


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 21, 2020, 12:10:01 pm
It is Decision time,

Got 2 options, everything else is ready so can start building.
But really don t know what to choose.
The well known tough Deutz cylinders or the QSC aluminium Cylinders.
Maybe you guys have some experience with both or just the one.
Disadvantages or advantages???

Like to hear from you?

Thanks in advance
Eddie
[attachment=1]

Sorry that I haven’t noticed this before.

I would use aluminium ones. Gets heat away better.
But you need to clear out that you have right kind of piston rings to use with these cylinders.

Deutz cylinders have been used also and they are fine too.

JE Pistons with there pro seal piston rings.
Hope this helps


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on November 21, 2020, 12:54:42 pm
Thanks Mikko,

Cal look so mostly street and sometimes strip
Heads ported with 42/36, 45 Dellorto carbs and turbo thomas 42/41mm merged header
Programmable ignition.

Hope this helps

With this info, I would go something like 10:1 cr. More cr will produce more heat and possibly more problems at street use.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on November 21, 2020, 13:07:51 pm
It is Decision time,

Got 2 options, everything else is ready so can start building.
But really don t know what to choose.
The well known tough Deutz cylinders or the QSC aluminium Cylinders.
Maybe you guys have some experience with both or just the one.
Disadvantages or advantages???

Like to hear from you?

Thanks in advance
Eddie
[attachment=1]

Sorry that I haven’t noticed this before.

I would use aluminium ones. Gets heat away better.
But you need to clear out that you have right kind of piston rings to use with these cylinders.

Deutz cylinders have been used also and they are fine too.

JE Pistons with there pro seal piston rings.
Hope this helps

I think that you should know what kind of cylinders are the piston rings ordered for. If you haven’t said about aluminium cylinders, I would quess that rings are for iron cylinders. But I’m not sure. I think that you should check the order.



Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 22, 2020, 09:37:10 am

Sorry that I haven’t noticed this before.

I would use aluminium ones. Gets heat away better.
But you need to clear out that you have right kind of piston rings to use with these cylinders.

Deutz cylinders have been used also and they are fine too.

JE Pistons with there pro seal piston rings.
Hope this helps

I think that you should know what kind of cylinders are the piston rings ordered for. If you haven’t said about aluminium cylinders, I would quess that rings are for iron cylinders. But I’m not sure. I think that you should check the order.



Well both the cylinders and pistons were internet bargains, so the rings came with pistons, don t know the history.
Did check the ring gaps and those are tight so have to modify them.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 22, 2020, 09:43:15 am
Thanks Mikko,

Cal look so mostly street and sometimes strip
Heads ported with 42/36, 45 Dellorto carbs and turbo thomas 42/41mm merged header
Programmable ignition.

Hope this helps

With this info, I would go something like 10:1 cr. More cr will produce more heat and possibly more problems at street use.

The heat problem with type 4 in a beetle isn t a big problem. will have a look but with 10:1 my deckheight becomes more than I would like, (2.6 mm) did unshroud the heads a bit.

Thanks again Mikko


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on November 22, 2020, 13:32:57 pm

Sorry that I haven’t noticed this before.

I would use aluminium ones. Gets heat away better.
But you need to clear out that you have right kind of piston rings to use with these cylinders.

Deutz cylinders have been used also and they are fine too.

JE Pistons with there pro seal piston rings.
Hope this helps

I think that you should know what kind of cylinders are the piston rings ordered for. If you haven’t said about aluminium cylinders, I would quess that rings are for iron cylinders. But I’m not sure. I think that you should check the order.



Well both the cylinders and pistons were internet bargains, so the rings came with pistons, don t know the history.
Did check the ring gaps and those are tight so have to modify them.

Ok, in this case, I would use deutz cylinders. Or, the other way would be to order new rings from JE to suit to the aluminium cylinders.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on November 22, 2020, 13:39:14 pm
Thanks Mikko,

Cal look so mostly street and sometimes strip
Heads ported with 42/36, 45 Dellorto carbs and turbo thomas 42/41mm merged header
Programmable ignition.

Hope this helps

With this info, I would go something like 10:1 cr. More cr will produce more heat and possibly more problems at street use.

The heat problem with type 4 in a beetle isn t a big problem. will have a look but with 10:1 my deckheight becomes more than I would like, (2.6 mm) did unshroud the heads a bit.

Thanks again Mikko

In this case I would modify combustion cambers to be bigger to get lower cr.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: MegaRookie on November 22, 2020, 18:27:59 pm
Hi Eddie, 10:1 doesn't sound very strange for a street engine with a web 86b. But your deck is a bit too high in my opinion. I should aim for max. 1.5 and try to unshroud the heads some more to not raise the cr to much.

Enjoy the build!

Mark


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 23, 2020, 07:32:38 am

In this case I would modify combustion cambers to be bigger to get lower cr.


Hi Eddie, 10:1 doesn't sound very strange for a street engine with a web 86b. But your deck is a bit too high in my opinion. I should aim for max. 1.5 and try to unshroud the heads some more to not raise the cr to much.

Enjoy the build!

Mark

I had them unshroud a bit around the valves, what can I do more on a type 4 head to gain more cc s in the head?

Regards Eddie


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on November 23, 2020, 15:39:14 pm
Do you have picture from combustion cambers?


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 24, 2020, 07:24:24 am
Yes, have a picture.
See here
[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on November 24, 2020, 17:11:28 pm
Take your cylinder in to head and drow a circle from inside cylinder to head. The you can expand compustion cambers close to cylinder walls. You can see circle and wanted shape from my picture.

[attachment=1]


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 09, 2020, 15:55:09 pm
Finally had some time to machine the cylinders

Cutting them to the correct length.
Machining the fins off.
Cutting them to the final size.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Arnoud on December 09, 2020, 20:58:25 pm
Hi Eddie!

Good job!Is the material as hard to machine as they say?Did you do this at home ?
Keep up the good work!

Cheers,Arnoud


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 10, 2020, 07:46:33 am
Hi Eddie!

Good job!Is the material as hard to machine as they say?Did you do this at home ?
Keep up the good work!

Cheers,Arnoud

I am not a experienced machinist, so i am working a bit slow.
But the fins are the hardest part to machine of, if you go to fast the fins brake and your knife brakes.
But yeah you can only do small cuts at a time.
The mills are not mine, a friend of mine has a ship diesel engine repair shop.
But it is fun to do. Like to do that stuff myself.

Regadrs eddie


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 08, 2021, 09:03:37 am
Got the cylinders machined to fit the headstuds, I think this is the hardest part of machining to get the cylinders to fit the case.
It is difficult to find a long cutter to do the whole hole in one go.
[attachment=1]


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 11, 2021, 10:32:24 am
Got the head fitted, some small adjustments to the hole for the head studs, so the cylinders fit and can move freely.
So one step further. Must say, happy at the moment.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on March 18, 2021, 08:30:00 am
Cylinders do all fit now.
Next up, looking if I got the deck height right and adjust to the correct height.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 08, 2021, 09:31:52 am
I bought some type 4 case trough bolts Years ago on here, those anybody know what torque spec they need, or are they the same as stock torque setting.
Thanks in advance
 


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Frallan on April 08, 2021, 14:59:45 pm
I bought some type 4 case trough bolts Years ago on here, those anybody know what torque spec they need, or are they the same as stock torque setting.
Thanks in advance
 

Are they Raceware?
http://raceware-fasteners.com/main-bearing-stud-kits/ 
If yeas, I will look it up as I have a set myself that I should use soon. Tomorrow latest I should know.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 09, 2021, 07:42:08 am
I bought some type 4 case trough bolts Years ago on here, those anybody know what torque spec they need, or are they the same as stock torque setting.
Thanks in advance
 

Are they Raceware?
http://raceware-fasteners.com/main-bearing-stud-kits/ 
If yeas, I will look it up as I have a set myself that I should use soon. Tomorrow latest I should know.

Thanks Frallan, but they are not the raceware, they are the 12.9 bolts, you see for sale some times on here.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on December 01, 2021, 12:45:42 pm
(http://)


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 19, 2022, 09:15:35 am
Goodday,

Can somebody tell, at what horsepower level you need a bigger fuel line (8mm) on carburetors.
And maybe how you notice this, if possible.

Thanks in advance


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: richie on April 20, 2022, 19:48:10 pm
Goodday,

Can somebody tell, at what horsepower level you need a bigger fuel line (8mm) on carburetors.
And maybe how you notice this, if possible.

Thanks in advance

Hi Eddie

I am not sure there is a exact hp level, to many variables but 1st sign is usually fuel starvation in 4th gear under hard acceleration



cheers Richie


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 21, 2022, 07:23:40 am
Goodday,

Can somebody tell, at what horsepower level you need a bigger fuel line (8mm) on carburetors.
And maybe how you notice this, if possible.

Thanks in advance

Hi Eddie

I am not sure there is a exact hp level, to many variables but 1st sign is usually fuel starvation in 4th gear under hard acceleration



cheers Richie

Thanks Richie


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: karl h on April 21, 2022, 08:10:40 am
Berg wrote he had no problem with the stock pump and fuel line/IDAs untill the car went into the 12s
that being said, its easy to mount a new 8mm line when the car is off the pan (and a second one because one might go FI in the future)


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 22, 2022, 06:38:14 am
Berg wrote he had no problem with the stock pump and fuel line/IDAs untill the car went into the 12s
that being said, its easy to mount a new 8mm line when the car is off the pan (and a second one because one might go FI in the future)

That is now, because pan is converted to IRS and off the body, so might as well do it now.
Thanks Karl


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: mikko k on April 22, 2022, 07:18:30 am
I would go even bigger than 8mm for future needs…


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: RMS Boxer Service on May 10, 2022, 10:01:29 am
I bought some type 4 case trough bolts Years ago on here, those anybody know what torque spec they need, or are they the same as stock torque setting.
Thanks in advance
 

I am pretty sure you bought the through bolts from me. You got the torque specs etc last year in a PM in this forum. ;)


/Rolf


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on May 10, 2022, 12:18:17 pm
I bought some type 4 case trough bolts Years ago on here, those anybody know what torque spec they need, or are they the same as stock torque setting.
Thanks in advance
 

I am pretty sure you bought the through bolts from me. You got the torque specs etc last year in a PM in this forum. ;)


/Rolf

Correct, thanks for that.
Have set them to your spec.

regards eddie


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on May 28, 2022, 09:05:58 am
Hmmm maybe started a bit to late this year or the work is far more work than I anticipated.
Trying to make it to EBI this year, off course
Got the floorpan removed from the car, welded in IRS brackets for the new Rancho IRS box.
To match the new built 2.5L this time.
Had to repair here and there some rust problem
Repainted everything.
Longblock ready
Floorpan welded and new coat of paint
Small repairs...
As it stands now ready for the engine
Testing oil pressure, new fuel lines, fuel pressure.
Adjusting cilindertins for the big cilinders.

Fingers crossed


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 08, 2022, 09:10:52 am
It s alive.  ;D

See film below.


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Frallan on June 08, 2022, 09:14:39 am
Congratulations!  Always a nice milestone!


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: richie on June 08, 2022, 17:38:49 pm
It s alive.  ;D

See film below.



 8)  Excellent

cheers Richie


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 09, 2022, 06:40:17 am
Thanks guys,

I have to say I was very happy.

had a spark
had fuel (well a small leak but repaired that)
had oil pressure
so fired it up, it started at the first go...
Now tuning it a bit for the dyno.
and finish everything so I can go on the dyno
and than to EBI  ;D 8)


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: alex d on June 09, 2022, 08:37:06 am
congrats! I hope to see it in Chimay  :)


Title: Re: Late Looker (type 4)
Post by: Eddie DVK on June 22, 2022, 09:49:32 am
Well a bit of a downfall.
Came back from my holiday with covid,
Been in quarantine since.
so had to postpone my date at the dyno, car had a days work left, which could not be done now.
So could not send one off my buddies either.

Was happy for my holiday that I made it, but did not expect to be coming home sick after the holiday.
Can t do nothing about it, i have tried.
So no EBI this year in my bug, which is unfortunate.
Have to sit this shit out and hope I am well for EBI.

Eddie