Internal parts questions

[bugnut68]

Got a few internal parts I've got questions on.  What are folks using for wrist pin keepers, teflon buttons or the snap ring style in Bugpack's catalog?  Which are the better product?  Or are folks using the ones that Mahle pistons come with?

Any preferences on lifters?  I'm going to either run an FK-8 with 1.4 rockers or else an Engle 125 with stock rockers, wondering what the best lifters are with either cam.

Also wondering about cam gears.  Will be running dual VW style springs, and debating whether to go with straight cut gears or stock helical.  I've got Magnums in my current 1776, which it probably really doesn't need, but I bought them with the understanding I would plan future upgrades.  At this stage, I really don't want to disassemble that engine just to yard out parts.

Finally, does anyone know if you can use the CSP line bore gauge tool to measure the thrust bearing saddle?  Haven't tried it yet, just wondering if it's appropriate or proper.

[bugnut68]

Anyone? Anyone?  It's awful quiet in here...

[Jim Ratto]

I have used the spirol locks now for 20+ years. They're a pain to get out when you pull the motor down, but that's a good thing.

Think I told you my take on lifters.

Straight cuts? With VW dual springs they're not "a must" unless you want the noise. Run waterboxer cam bearings and a good bolt on cam gear and make sure backlash isn't too toght or too loose and it will work. Make sure to use high grade Loctite on cam bolts too... the bolts can and will come loose if you don't. clack clack clack clack.... and make sure heads of cam bolts don't collide with front of oil pump... you need .040" clearance.

I don't know about the line bore tool. I use a STD main bearing and see if it crushes in tight or not. Also torque case halves together and peer through pulley or flywheel hole at center main. If you see a sliver of light between center main saddles.... case is toast.

have fun

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

 Also torque case halves together and peer through pulley or flywheel hole at center main. If you see a sliver of light between center main saddles.... case is toast.


Dont Toss the Case Rimco Fix's the Pulled Center main saddle all the time on case's

[bugnut68]

I've already checked the case, we're good to go there, fortunately!  Appreciate any and all insight and any additional tips for this build.  Hoping to send my case to VW Paradise here pretty soon for stroker clearancing. It's already bored and full flowed.

[Bruce]

Teflon buttons are the easiest and are dead reliable.

Lifters?  That's easy.  UDO's lifters.  Guaranteed to never kill a cam.

Use a stock cam gear.  That's all you need with VW type duals.  Take the $ you save by not buying straight cut gears and put it towards something that you will benefit from, like Udo's lifters.

[stealth67vw]

Ryan, I've got a VW magnesium bolt on gear with a radial groove cut through the teeth like in the Bill Fisher book. You can have it, if you will use it.

[fish]

I've heard people using stock lifters in Hi-Po engines with good success, but you can't beat UDO's.
Stock gear is fine with your valve train, I just love the sound of straight cuts.
Have used Buttons with good resutls.

my 3 cents.

[Neil Davies]

I've always used teflon buttons - just one thing less to worry about coming out!

[Felix/DFL]

I've heard people using stock lifters in Hi-Po engines with good success, but you can't beat UDO's.
Stock gear is fine with your valve train, I just love the sound of straight cuts.
Have used Buttons with good resutls.
my 3 cents.

Don`t go with original lifters! I used new ones with an Engle W110 and had massive noises from valve train.

You can use orig. lifters if they are blued/hardened, but they are pretty heavy.
I use the Empi-lifters with an W125 and have no problems till yet.
Very good lifters are made from Thorsten Pieper here in D, they are designed as the legendary "Wizemann" lifters and only weight about 55g

[bugnut68]

Ryan, I've got a VW magnesium bolt on gear with a radial groove cut through the teeth like in the Bill Fisher book. You can have it, if you will use it.

Sure, John, shoot me an email!  ryan68bug@hotmail.com

[Jim Ratto]

never tried teflon buttons. The guy I worked for scared me into thinking they screwed up ring sealing (not sure why)..... there are no down sides to running them? I've avoided them all these years because of good ol Jerry....hahaha  oh man.

[Jim Ratto]

Ryan.... other little stuff to watch out for:

cam axial play (thrust)... they're always too tight going in out of the box. When you go to dial in cam (degree) you'll find out how tight they are without giving the thrust bearings some attention. The cam should spin freely in the bearings when case is torqued. I set them @ .002" end play or so. (sand thrust bearings on 400 wet dry on sheet of thick glass or granite)

plug oil pump outlet AND case. On a hot day you'll be happy you did (at idle)

use factory VW keyways if you can find them.

same with timing gear horseshoe, circlip and valve cover bails.... the aftermarket stuff isn't as good.

apply good sealant under 6 12mm case washers, and washers for 8mm studs @ cam plug area, and under head washers that are in rocker boxes.

do all of your mock ups and geometry checks/clay pistons/deck height checks BEFORE you build bottom end (guys that build shortblock and then goof around with geometry and pushrod lengths...etc.... might as well not apply cam lube... everytime cam goes to lift (even against light test spring) the lube gets wiped off.

probably more but right now that's the important stuff I can remember.

[Bruce]

The guy I worked for scared me into thinking they screwed up ring sealing ....

Maybe it's because teflon is harder than cast iron? 

[nicolas]

teflon buttons trap oil and make all the balancing seem like wasted money...

[Bruce]

teflon buttons trap oil and make all the balancing seem like wasted money...

That's why everyone drills holes in them.

[bugnut68]

I appreciate the insight, guys, keep 'em coming, as I'm sure there's plenty of things I won't think of during this build!

[Neil Davies]

Ryan.... other little stuff to watch out for:

cam axial play (thrust)... they're always too tight going in out of the box. When you go to dial in cam (degree) you'll find out how tight they are without giving the thrust bearings some attention. The cam should spin freely in the bearings when case is torqued. I set them @ .002" end play or so. (sand thrust bearings on 400 wet dry on sheet of thick glass or granite)

plug oil pump outlet AND case. On a hot day you'll be happy you did (at idle)

use factory VW keyways if you can find them.

same with timing gear horseshoe, circlip and valve cover bails.... the aftermarket stuff isn't as good.

apply good sealant under 6 12mm case washers, and washers for 8mm studs @ cam plug area, and under head washers that are in rocker boxes.

do all of your mock ups and geometry checks/clay pistons/deck height checks BEFORE you build bottom end (guys that build shortblock and then goof around with geometry and pushrod lengths...etc.... might as well not apply cam lube... everytime cam goes to lift (even against light test spring) the lube gets wiped off.

probably more but right now that's the important stuff I can remember.

To get a nice thick slab of granite, you could do worse than going to your local home store and looking in the kitchen section...

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/8420486/Trail/searchtext%3EGRANITE.htm

 

[stealth67vw]

To get a nice thick slab of granite, you could do worse than going to your local home store and looking in the kitchen section...

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/8420486/Trail/searchtext%3EGRANITE.htm

 

I bought a 12 x 18" Grade A inspection grade (flat to .00001") granite surface plate off Craigslist for $10 last year. Enco sells them for $25 for shop grade which is more than adequate and it's probably cheaper than buying non precision counter top stuff.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=640-0120&PMPXNO=949402&PARTPG=INLMK3

[stealth67vw]

Ryan, I've got a VW magnesium bolt on gear with a radial groove cut through the teeth like in the Bill Fisher book. You can have it, if you will use it.

Sure, John, shoot me an email!  ryan68bug@hotmail.com

PM me your address and I'll get it off to you. That is a crusty old lithium grease on the teeth, not oxidation.

[Rick Meredith]

Nice mouse pad!

[Rennsurfer]

Nice mouse pad!

Ditto... that one's almost better than my factory Porsche one with the 911 Turbo.

Okay, DEEK thread derailment complete. Carry on.

[stealth67vw]

Thanks, picked up at the brewery when me, Sheep and Wenzel went on the private tour. Yes, those are beer stains.