Jim and Carlos' attack on CA Hwy 33 (a nice Sunday drive)

[Tony M]

Wish I had buddies to cruise with up here.    The guys around here seem to have turned in their man-cards and can't get out for a drive because their other-halves won't let them off the leash.  I feel like the last cruising Mohican up here.....

WTH - Kafercup, your not the last Mohican here. S--t i drove my car to work today. Lets get our own cruise going - Well head out Mines Rd - Get up to the junction and have lunch - Get a hold of me any time - As long as it's not raining - I HAVE NO LEASH 

[Jim Ratto]

Wish I had buddies to cruise with up here.    The guys around here seem to have turned in their man-cards and can't get out for a drive because their other-halves won't let them off the leash.  I feel like the last cruising Mohican up here.....

WTH - Kafercup, your not the last Mohican here. S--t i drove my car to work today. Lets get our own cruise going - Well head out Mines Rd - Get up to the junction and have lunch - Get a hold of me any time - As long as it's not raining - I HAVE NO LEASH 

We need to get that 2332 alive and kicking in your car, Derek. Then your problem won't be enough guys that will cruise.....  nobody will be able to KEEP UP.

[kafercup]

Wish I had buddies to cruise with up here.    The guys around here seem to have turned in their man-cards and can't get out for a drive because their other-halves won't let them off the leash.  I feel like the last cruising Mohican up here.....

WTH - Kafercup, your not the last Mohican here. S--t i drove my car to work today. Lets get our own cruise going - Well head out Mines Rd - Get up to the junction and have lunch - Get a hold of me any time - As long as it's not raining - I HAVE NO LEASH 

We need to get that 2332 alive and kicking in your car, Derek. Then your problem won't be enough guys that will cruise.....  nobody will be able to KEEP UP.

 

[mg]

My car will understeer, but not so much in the slower speed twisties. I think it is more in how I drive the car than it's grip. The 3rd and 4th gear stuff can get a little white knuckle, depending on camber of road, the exit after apex and the grade. Carlos might want to chime in here, with his impressions. We did get a little off line coming back to Simi, through the tight stuff near "Welcome to Ojai Valley" sign, I think it was power on understeer that washed us out a little. I enjoy the 2nd gear corners the most, come in, let rear just get light, then hard on power and back in line. I'm sure more footprint up front would corner better, but nothing extreme. Brakes are where my car needs the most attention.

I’d be interested in discussion on making a Cal Look corner.
A VW set up to 60ft is not optimized for cornering.

There are some epic drives between LA and Monterey.
2nd gear allows me to safely test my set up and develop my car control skills.
Sounds like you were playing with throttle steer/weight transfer.
Bet it has lots of trailing throttle over steer? (A TBD is the worst thing for TTOS)
A drag racing close ratio box might make the car nervous to throttle steer, experiencing too much engine braking/weight transfer when you lift?

Adjustable sway bars front and rear could help tune the push out of it.
Firmer rear torsion could remove some push, but then you would have to change your shock valveing.

To dampen the weight transfer I like to left foot brake, helps me keep the car loaded while transferring weight as needed to the front or rear.
Go Kart racers left foot brake but it is a technique that takes practice to become automatic.
If you have too much front brake bias because of the tiny front tires this could be difficult.
Disc brakes w/ proper bias for your size tires.
Disc brakes were the best thing I ever put on my VW.
For now get some Super Blue or better brake fluid and refresh frequently.

For under steer increasing the front foot print would help.
What about a second set of wheels, some 5s and 6s closer in diameter with under 200 tread wear tires?

An LSD (I hate TBD on rear engine cars) could add stability during braking.

Take it to an AX or SOW, let an instructor ride with you, maybe learn some new techniques to deal with your car’s characteristics.

Interested in comments from others that have built their VW to corner.
Mark Herbert would of been all over this thread. 

[Rennsurfer]

We need to get that 2332 alive and kicking in your car, Derek. Then your problem won't be enough guys that will cruise.....  nobody will be able to KEEP UP.

 

I like your attitude and spirit, soldier.

[mg]

I like your attitude and spirit, soldier.
[/quote]

Fred what mods would you suggest to make a VW carve/crave the corners?

[Rennsurfer]

[Bruce]

For under steer increasing the front foot print would help.
What about a second set of wheels, some 5s and 6s closer in diameter with under 200 tread wear tires?

Barring a full set, just a pair of wheels with some 185/60s up front would go a long way.

[mg]

Barring a full set, just a pair of wheels with some 185/60s up front would go a long way.

on swing axle would an Empi style camber compenstor help control wieght transfer?
stunning photo Mark. 

[Rennsurfer]

Photo credit goes to either Mr. Ratto or Mr. De Alba.

[Jim Ratto]

For under steer increasing the front foot print would help.
What about a second set of wheels, some 5s and 6s closer in diameter with under 200 tread wear tires?

Barring a full set, just a pair of wheels with some 185/60s up front would go a long way.

the 145's on my car are about 10 years old and have 40K+ on them. I'm looking into more footprint in the near future.

Photo credit goes to either Mr. Ratto or Mr. De Alba.

Carlos took the pic with his phone.

[javabug]

Good post Mike G.  The "mainstream" thing about a Cal-look car was the drag racing influence, which is cool.  But I"ve detected a subtle under-influence of trying to make a VW-Porsche relationship in Cal-look, as well.

Since it is really difficult to do both simultaneously, I think unfortunately you need to make a decision.  It is often I am personally torn between the two.  If your car isn't built to attend the local drag strip regularly, then it would make sense to me to optimize its behavior on the open road, which means making a car that corners well.

I'm all for it, and would enjoy the resulting discussion.

[Jim Ratto]

I prefer my car is "pretty good" at a little bit of everything, and that it "works." Last time I had any interest in drag racing was 2000, but I'd be interested to see the mph this car would go through lights at. Most importantly for me, I enjoy therapy drives. No phone, no traffic, no chores. Probably why I am particular about the sound of the car and the way it makes power. I know it's not going to win any canyon races, but I couldn't care less. Compared to simple sporting cars of its era, I think my VW holds it own, except maybe in cross wind stability. Driving the car in comparison to a modern car, even a sedate 4 door sedan can probably scoot through backroads at a faster clip. I know my Legacy Turbo would eat my VW alive from point A to point B. But be about a fourth as much fun. Or less.
I like to setup a VW so it is slightly "nervous", with quick responses from driver input, including oversteer. I like the feel of a small car that is taut, brakes are firm and positive, throttle response is hard edged and steering is light and positive.
The series of slow, uphill corners climbing out of Ojai Valley on the way back southeast....coming into those on a sunny crisp morning, the car dialed in, oil temp fully warmed, carbs crackling and gobbling cold winter air, then powering out of the series onto the idyllic straights through the ranch country in a scream of valvetrain, intake and exhaust....nothing is more satisfying. And there's no worry or concern over 60 foot times, red-lighting, or breaking out.

[mg]

somewhere in California  , 2nd gear on a fire trail descending into Big Sur/Hwy 1.
I bet Beechers 911 back half split would be sweet for a drive llike this.
<a href="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3927959&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;fullscreen=1&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=01AAEA" target="_blank">http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3927959&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;fullscreen=1&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=01AAEA</a>

[lawrence]

My beetle is setup more sports car than cal-look. It has 185/65s all around on 4.5" 356 wheels, a front sway bar and the stance is almost level. I would like to add a camber compensator and some konis but I need to spend the funds on other stuff. The 1914 with IDAs makes it a blast to drive on twisty roads. I usually carry my speed into corners, tap the brake as much as necessary upon entry and then hit the throttle again to squat the rear end. It corners very well and I have drag raced it, for fun, setup exactly like this.

[mg]

Disc brakes, a 1776 with kadrons and heaters would be great to flog.
Style wise a functional vintage race seat w/2nd set of tires
Hook it up like a 356 racecar?
The AAA 200 mile flatbed/winch service helps.

[lawrence]

I have a set of upholstered bucket seats from fibersteel on my wishlist. A huge difference in cornering would be made by feeling exactly what the car is doing. A set of 5.5" erco wheels or alloys at all corners would be cool.

[mg]

at the 1 minute mark, something off a Brawn?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/E6RWkBAc67Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/E6RWkBAc67Y</a>
what is the correct cal look sport seat, need just a little lat support/feedback.
A good seat with 5 points for full feedback.
maybe cheep set of used formula vee 0 camber bias bly slicks to keep up the momentum in the sweepers.
W/big and littles sticky rear pads for a poor mans brake bias.
Get a V1 too.

[Rennsurfer]

[Jim Ratto]

My beetle is setup more sports car than cal-look. It has 185/65s all around on 4.5" 356 wheels, a front sway bar and the stance is almost level. I would like to add a camber compensator and some konis but I need to spend the funds on other stuff. The 1914 with IDAs makes it a blast to drive on twisty roads. I usually carry my speed into corners, tap the brake as much as necessary upon entry and then hit the throttle again to squat the rear end. It corners very well and I have drag raced it, for fun, setup exactly like this.

Hi lawrence, any chance you could post a pic of your front tires and your car? It's time for me to buy tires.... looking @ 175/65 or 185/60

[Jason Foster]

  Oh the blasphemy why don't you add square headlights while your at it?    Boy I'll tell ya....................





  Might as well throw a whale tail at it just for kicks....

[Jim Ratto]

 

oh I forgot..... "cal look rules" state they're only for going in straight lines. 

[Neil Davies]

Hi lawrence, any chance you could post a pic of your front tires and your car? It's time for me to buy tires.... looking @ 175/65 or 185/60

Jim, I've got 175/65s on a pair of 6" cookie cutters, and they look kind of big on there - I think they'd just look wierd on the 5" Flat Four BRMs. Have you seen Nico's 165/65s on his '67? They're the same height as a 145, but plenty wide enough. I'll try to find the thread.

Ok then, here's the link to Nico-67's thread:
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,4740.0.html
and i've found a pic of the 6" wheel with the 175/65 too!

[Jim Ratto]

I actually like the look of the 175/65 on the cookie cutter 911 wheel
looks come second when it comes to being happy with my ride anyway

[Mike Maize]

Jim I switched to 185 60 15's in front about 4 years ago for all of the reasons you mentioned on my convertible that is set up for the use you described. I couldn't be happier with the braking and handling improvement it made. Just had to give up the dragster look. I am running 205 65 15's on the back. Car handles awesome with one click down in the back too, I know it isn't Cal-look, but it is soo fun on the twisty hilly back roads here.

[Jason Foster]

  Oh Jim.........

   I kid                       I kid.

[Jim Ratto]

it's cool 

[lawrence]

Here are a couple pictures, Jim. Never mind the late fender on the front driver side which makes the car appear higher. 175/65 and 185/65 are very similar to 145 and 155 respectively. I would not run a 185/60 unless your car is really slammed in the front because that is a short sidewall.

[Jim Ratto]

I like that lawrence. Only thing I would personally paint the wheels dove grey. Otherwise it's on the money.

[lawrence]

Nah, I like the color they are lighter in person.