48 IDA Linkage..Which one fits and works best?..Now with PIC!

[BeetleJuice]

I have 48 ida's on Berg short manifolds, Berg breather and want to know whick linkages will fit?

I have centre pull linkage that won't fit now due to big dizzy.

Obviously the Berg linkage will fit, not sure about the look though! And the price.

CB's..Is it the 3130?

Suggestions, experiences & Pics greatly appreciated.


BeetleJuice

[Kaferdog]

I don't think the CB linkage will fit with the Berg breather ..Mine did not fit with the Berg breather ..maybe the Bugpack would work....?

[BeetleJuice]

Thanks Kaferdog.

The Berg part numbers are,short manifolds GB587 and Berg Breather GB 207B.

In the Berg manual they recommend a GB 451 for use with my Berg accessories. THey also list the GB 455 which is a modified and improved EMPI version.

Will this fit my application with the above Berg accessories?

[DKK Ted]

Ok, don't know the numbers, but the Berg Fan Shroud Mount linkage will work with the longer rods, OR yes a cross bar linkage like the Bugpack one. Ben Salazar from DKP does run a cross bar linkage and is running the Berg Manifolds, not sure what brand of cross bar linkage he used but does fit. Maybe somebody that knows his car better will chime in with that info.

And I don't believe that Berg sell's there cross bar linkage anymore.

Ted

[Jim Ratto]

Hi Ted, I think Ben is running the tall 590 manifolds though, same height @ Skat Traks. I think with the shorty manifolds the choices of linkage that will work is either Berg fan shroud or some form of push-pull pivot linkage. I don't think Tayco or any of the other cross bar designs will work.
My 48IDAs came with Scat short manifolds and a center-pivot/push pull linkage. The carbs ended up on Super Flow heads and manifolds (carbs open as levers go inward-down, like Skat Trak) and I remember only linkage I could get to reach carbs, etc was Berg fan shroud, but with IDF threaded rods from linkage arms to carbs arms because the design of the manifolds. But then look @ Brinton's '67... S/F with Tayco.
Jim

[Type1/DVK]

CSP has some really nice linkage systems these days, also for IDA. IMHO they have a good system because it doesn't attach to the fanhousing (synchonicity)

[BeetleJuice]

I haven''t seen a CSP linkage fitted. They would fit the short manifolds, but with the large twin plug dizzy I have clearing that is the issue!
 
Not really sure about the Berg one due to possible vibration & sync  issues.

[Lids]

you can fit the bugpack centre swivel linkage, its based on the old DDS design and fits.

http://www.bugpack.com/content.php?id=108

[Jim Ratto]

I haven''t seen a CSP linkage fitted. They would fit the short manifolds, but with the large twin plug dizzy I have clearing that is the issue!
 
Not really sure about the Berg one due to possible vibration & sync  issues.

Hi BeetleJuice,
just wanted to comment on your concerns with Berg linkage. The only issues I've had with the fan shroud mount 453 setup on my car in last 19+ years is the little eyelets carrying the cross rod wearing and allowing the cross rod to have radial play. I hear Berg now offers their setup with true "bearings" in heim joints to solve that problem. I think Stephan updated his linkage with them last year. But I will tell you, aside from getting the slight play out of linkage, issues with synchronous opening and vibration hasn't been an issue. A year or so ago I was at some club event and Bill S.' car was there, and I commented to Sarge "listen how clean and well tuned Bill's car always sounds.." guess what, his car always sounds 100%... yep Berg carb linkage. One thing I did on my setup to make my linkage better (for me) was I ditched the RH/RH threaded "Z" arms that it caem with originally, and went to straight RH/LH thread rods and appropriate ball ends so the rods became adjustable w/o undoing the rod from linkage cross rod. Anyway, I drive my car on an almost daily basis and spend more time keeping the accelerator rollers clean and lubed than I do playing with linkage... 10 to 1. Again, if you're running short manifolds, I think your choices are limited as far as which linkage will reach the carbs. Hope this helps.
Jim

[Donny B.]

Here's a picture of my engine with the new style Berg linkage with the heim joint bearings for the shaft.  It came with washer spacers which I cut off and put two stainless shaft collars to position the shaft side to side.  It is very smooth.

[DKK Ted]

Hey Donny, You beat me the punch.     Just kidding.   I was going to post a pic also. I'm also running the new style linkage. But I like the way you did the collar thing. Very nice.You make the collars, or that something you can buy? Must be a split collar. Buy the way... very nice engine dud. I like it. Clean! Anyway, back to the post. Yes, the new linkage IS a very smooth linkage from what they use to be. Easy to sync, the way I do it, Mark from Bergs showed me a trick.  But the way Jim did his arms is a very good idea.  I've used the Berg linkage on 99% of all my engines, and also recommend to the guy's I build engines for and they run them without problems. Like this thread, I bet Dee will appreciate this thread too!

Ted

[Jim Ratto]

Hey Donny, You beat me the punch.     Just kidding.   I was going to post a pic also. I'm also running the new style linkage. But I like the way you did the collar thing. Very nice.You make the collars, or that something you can buy? Must be a split collar. Buy the way... very nice engine dud. I like it. Clean! Anyway, back to the post. Yes, the new linkage IS a very smooth linkage from what they use to be. Easy to sync, the way I do it, Mark from Bergs showed me a trick.  But the way Jim did his arms is a very good idea.  I've used the Berg linkage on 99% of all my engines, and also recommend to the guy's I build engines for and they run them without problems. Like this thread, I bet Dee will appreciate this thread too!

Ted

thanks Ted. Before the new carrier bearing heims came along, were other people wearing the eyes out too? I imagine that is why the new design came to be? I noticed using Bosch point grease seems to work best on the eyelets to keep it working smoothly.

[Donny B.]

Ted I got the collars from McMaster Carr.  They are a standard two piece shaft collar.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#shaft-collars/=6gmww8

[Bill Schwimmer]

Thanks for the comments Jim...  As for the Berg linkage it is a bit "industrial" looking, but it works better than anything else I have touched. I have never had the shroud move on my car ,but I have seen it move around on the aftermarket 36hp shrouds. The linkage currently on my car is 18+ yo & works perfectly, but I don't put the miles on it like Jim R.  "buy the best and cry once"    Bill

[DKK Ted]

It all comes down to up keep, like anything else that moves, ya gotta lube it. I bet alot of guy's don't even think about that so those eyelets will start to wear. Bill is absolutely right about 36hp shrouds, mine moved on Drag Day. When I got home I changed the strap to a German one, tighten the sh%t out of it, and tighten the side screws, so far ok.
Jim, any pics of your set-up with the arms?

Ted

[Jim Ratto]

not the best picture, but here you go

[Joel Mohr]

CSP!!! Not to step on the Berg fans, I've been one for decades! But the CSP is so simple and self sufficient.....You can use it with any shroud, and even without!

[Jim Ratto]

PS: Bill, your car has always sounded "right" to my ears. Hard to believe your motor is almost 20 yr old now. See ya soon.

Jim

[Peter]

here is a pic of a csp installed
works very well!

[Type1/DVK]

Peter, this is the csp bell crank, but they got to have the IDA linkage.. also very nice german engineering








CSP Crossbar Linkage Type-1/IDA
129 941 131IDA
199.00 EUR/set

[Jim Ratto]

that is a nice looking linkage setup, but the issue I see is that it will work with tall IDA manifolds only (I think). I think Beetlejuice said he's using shorts. Maybe the CSP bell crank would suit that height manifold. Otherwise the links (threaded rods) between x-bar and levers on carbs on the linkage you posted will have to be longer, not to mention the x-bar will probably be at same height as generator/alternator. Depending on which manifiolds he has the carbs might open out and down, instead of in and down, like the carbs pictured on CSP motor. In that case, you need the push pull or the old Berg linkage with angles down-rods (sort of like Donny B's DCNF motor pictured up above). Sorry to carry on again,

PS remember, the short IDA manifolds put carbs closer to one another width wise too. That and the height are going to effect cross bar position and then if you get that right, you need to remember throttle cable tube position and so on. The nice thing about Berg setup is you run a stock cable, whatever p/n fits your year car. The arm it attaches to thinks it's in the same place as your old Solex carb. No cables going 90 deg up as it comes out of tube to reach linkage, no more sawing a groove in the tube w/ cable.

[DKK Ted]

not the best picture, but here you go

I like your set-up with the arms, I had made a set of arms with some hex bar with right and left hand thread a long time ago, went looking for them, found them but was too short. Did have the heims in them. All I need to do is make some longer hex rods and tap them r&l hand. I have the taps. That angle is not to bad either. Looking good Jim!

Ted

[Jim Ratto]

Thanks Ted. I would be happier if the arms were straight up and down, and I may add some spacers to arms off x-rod so the top ball joints are closer to being directly over bottoms.
No need to make stuff, unless you want to. I bought all my stuff from Midwest Control you can google or tweeter or whatever them. Their website is fun to browse and drool on. Happy Easter,
Jim

[DKK Ted]

Hey Jim, Ya, your right! I checked out Midwest, MAN they got some stuff! I gonna see what I have, and what I need, I'll order from them. Thanks dud! You and your family have a Happy Easter also.

Ted

[BeetleJuice]

Firstly, many thanks to all for the great info and pics!

After some endless thoughts and hours internet time, the choice is between CSP products and Berg. I am leaning towards the CSP Bellcrank part no 129 941 110IDA.
CSP also produce a Crossbar linkage for short manifolds - 129 941 132IDA. Wonderful engineering!

My previous engine and accessories was setup with the Scat type centrepull and it is much easier to travel down the same track. My fan housing is a reasonable quality after market type and consequently I feel the Berg linkage would only as good as the fanhousing, and in my case just OK.
I do like the bellcrank as they attach to the case and easy to undo when engine needs to be removed.

Does anyone have a CSP bellcrank linkage for 48 Ida's that could possibly measure from the top of the case to the ( installed on bellcrank)  pushrod for bank 3&4 at the closed & full throttle positions??
That would be GREAT!
Regards
Craig
 

[Ben67]

Twin plug??    And yes with what Jim said I am using the taller of the berg manifolds.  I think they 5 3/4 in tall.

[BeetleJuice]

TwinPlug.....Yes it's Stan Pobjoy's.

http://www.stanpobjoy.com.au/