Zinc Additives...Which Brands.... Or are they Needed?

[volksnut]

So when was it that they took zinc out? Or was it over a period of years

[kingsburgphil]

So ...It looks like we all have our own preference's for a "premium cost no object" racing oil......Perfect!
Lets keep them all in business!     Any thoughts on adding a little de-gummed Castor oil (Blendzall 501) to the fuel....
kinda of a eau de cologne for purist's.

[Torben Alstrup]

Hello. One thing you have to keep in mind is, that super high levels of ZZDP may be/is good for dragrace and the likes engines. But is NOT NESCESSARILY the answer for street engines. Last year when I did some extensive testing on 4 different brands of oil, I also tested one brand with Zink levels around 2000 ppm. This oil has shown very good results on the dyno with very little resistance hence more power. HOWEVER, the same oil was absolutely awfull on the street at higher speeds. At 85 - 90 mph. (4300 - 4500 rpm) the oil temps rose to very unacceptable levels almost 15 degrees higher than a cheap fleet oil.  I must admit I did not test it beyond that. I simply swopped back to a known oil. But judging from what I hear from other enthusiasts with other types of vehichles there seems to be a pattern. too much ZZDP is about as bad as not enough.
T

[JIMP]

Hello

does anybody has any info on the Motul V300 20W60 as far as the ZDDP content concerns? The agent that sells this to me claims that it has plenty of it but no idea really how much that plenty is, also is perfect as viscosity to our very hot weather, cheers

Friendly

Dimitrios

[GreenTom]

Hello

does anybody has any info on the Motul V300 20W60 as far as the ZDDP content concerns? The agent that sells this to me claims that it has plenty of it but no idea really how much that plenty is, also is perfect as viscosity to our very hot weather, cheers

Friendly

Dimitrios

I was told the same at Motul agent. But must say 300V competition 15W50 works really nice in a street/strip motor. On the hiway temp is between 180-200F and the oil PSI at this temp with 3000-4000RPM is 50PSI so grate in my opinion.
At the moment I've got Shell Helix 15 W40 in my shiter and when oil is cold lets say up to 150-170F the presure @ 700RPM is 25PSI and @ 3000RPM is almost 50 PSI but when oil gets warmer-hotter upto 190-200F the pressure dropps dramatically upto 12,5PSI  @ 650-700RPM and 37,5 PSI @ 3000-3500RPM (100-120km/h).

[Torben Alstrup]

Hi Torben

I found your comments very interesting on B. Penn.

Is your oil pressure good or a little high? I've heard B.Penn 20-50 makes engines run hotter..Here in Toowoomba Australia, temperatures reach 44 dec C in summer and go as low as -3degC in winter! I've heard BPenn 20-50 referred to as tar!

Any further info and comments would be appreciated.


Craig

Hello.
The Elf 20/w50 is - supposidly - rather good. A bunch of the local vintage car owners have switched to that from Castrol.
1. Because its cheaper, and 2, because  the HTHS @ 150C. cP is lower, and the index is only 119. meaning that it flows better than the Castrol.
 I have not tested it on Aircooled VW´s, as I fell into the trap of trying Brad Penn. Shouldnt have done that Now there is no way back. The engines even SOUND different (less mechanical noise)
T

I have not seen temperature increases with B. Penn. - more like the opposite.  But I also tested the 15w/40 blend. In your warm climate I would definitely run the 20w/50 blend.
T

[kingsburgphil]

Stumbled across this site...interesting reading 

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

[Jim Ratto]

The Valvoline 20W50 4-stroke has been keeping things alive for me....
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,12889.msg195564.html#msg195564

[Jason Foster]

   Might be something to the theory of more zinc is not always good on street.  I recently started using a LAT additive which probably brings me realistically somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 to 1500 ppm I think, as opposed to the probably 800 to 900 I was running and I noticed a highway temp rise probably give or take almost 10 degrees.   

[John Rayburn]

   Might be something to the theory of more zinc is not always good on street.  I recently started using a LAT additive which probably brings me realistically somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 to 1500 ppm I think, as opposed to the probably 800 to 900 I was running and I noticed a highway temp rise probably give or take almost 10 degrees.  

                                                 Jason, this is why you don't want to add additives to your oil. The full package has to work together. Just adding it can throw the balance of the oil's " recepie" off. Go with an oil that has the proper balance from the start.

[Jason Foster]

  I agree with you John.  I spoke to Shawns counterpart over at LAT before doing it and he said it would be good. I just was being cheap and didn't want to fork over the big bucks for something else.  Awhile back after initially reading this thread mostly your words I also was looking into some Lucas products and talked to them as well. I had been running Mobil1 in this engine all along untill recently with no apparent issues. The Mobil1 may have even been as low as 600 to 700 ppm maybe right? Do you really think levels that low are of serious concern?

[John Rayburn]

  I agree with you John.  I spoke to Shawns counterpart over at LAT before doing it and he said it would be good. I just was being cheap and didn't want to fork over the big bucks for something else.  Awhile back after initially reading this thread mostly your words I also was looking into some Lucas products and talked to them as well. I had been running Mobil1 in this engine all along untill recently with no apparent issues. The Mobil1 may have even been as low as 600 to 700 ppm maybe right? Do you really think levels that low are of serious concern?

                                                     Mobil1 does have low levels, as do any SM rated oil. Those low levels are a big concern, and the reps I talked to at Castrol and Valvoline said the SM oils are totally inadequate for our use, especially for higher spring pressures that we're used to.

[j-dub]

Are their any non SM rated oils in weights lower than 20w-50? Do you have a recommended oil if I want to run 5w-20 or 5w30?


Thanks in advance,

Jeremy

[John Rayburn]

Are their any non SM rated oils in weights lower than 20w-50? Do you have a recommended oil if I want to run 5w-20 or 5w30?


Thanks in advance,

Jeremy

                                                             Joe Gibbs, and Brad Penn have 30 and 40 weights in straight and multi viscosity.

[SlingShot]

Are their any non SM rated oils in weights lower than 20w-50? Do you have a recommended oil if I want to run 5w-20 or 5w30?


Thanks in advance,

Jeremy

Just run a stock pump and straight 30w 

[Jim Ratto]

  I agree with you John.  I spoke to Shawns counterpart over at LAT before doing it and he said it would be good. I just was being cheap and didn't want to fork over the big bucks for something else.  Awhile back after initially reading this thread mostly your words I also was looking into some Lucas products and talked to them as well. I had been running Mobil1 in this engine all along untill recently with no apparent issues. The Mobil1 may have even been as low as 600 to 700 ppm maybe right? Do you really think levels that low are of serious concern?

I don't even use SM oil in my 2006 Subaru Jason. Check out motorcycle oils, they have not had to comply to the SM rating. Several off the shelf brands offer 1300ppm+ at a reasonable price. I will shoot you a pic of my cam and lifters that went 19,000 miles on "nothing fancy oil" in my '67, if you want.
I know somebody that's running Castrol 30 HD (which is not SM) and puts the miles on and has a clean cow magnet.
I tried Mobil 1 too a few years back, and lost a Web cam and all 8 lifters. Not saying it was for sure the oil, but everything else in build and parts were the same as I always do.
If you want you can send a UO (used oil) sample off for analysis. I've used Blackstone and with their help, landed on what I'm using now.

[j-dub]

                                                       Joe Gibbs, and Brad Penn have 30 and 40 weights in straight and multi viscosity.

Great. I just looked at the Brad Penn website and found a dealer right near my home.

My next question is how long should I use the break in oil for? Assume I start the car for the first time with break in oil, run it for 15 minutes with the rps varying but above 2k. After this I change the oil and adjust the valves and take it for a road test. At this point am I using break in oil still? I assume so because I have read that the synthetic will lubricate so well that it will be harder to seat the rings.

Thanks again,

Jeremy

[Jesse/DVK]

Kick to this topic .

Found a dealer here in the Netherlands which sells Brad Penn. He has both 20W50 and straight 40. Which should I choose for my street/strip 1915? Also no problems to swap from Sunoco 20W50 to any of those oils?

[Diederick/DVK]

Just for further information, they are Brad Penn HiPo "The Green" oils.

[rick m]

Years back, when everyone was saying our VW cam manufacturers were making poorer quality cams, all my V8 buddies who ran flat tappet (solid lifter) cams told me to wake up.  It was the changes in oil composition (like John Rayburn mentioned) that were the culprit.  We were running KENDALL GT (the green stuff) at the time and had absolutely no issues with all the ENGLE cam grinds we were running.  It was high in ZINC and something my V8 friends recommended I run. I have not had a cam go flat in 20 years, and the one that did go flat was my fault for floating the valves in the waterbox all the time! :-)

Like John stated,  it is an issue of running flat tappet cams and the need for 1400-1500PPM ZINC.  If you think oil composition is an issue, you should research what is done to gas you buy at the pump.  Fuels make a difference on the way your air cooled motor runs and cools as well.

This is all stuff you have to stay on top of and these forums are great when guys share everything they've learned for the benefit of others.

Rick M

[Harry/FDK]

Today's fuels... And Kendall is now a Conoco/Phillips Brand. Means no more zinc... I still have my "green" half filled barrel. But when it's gone i will switch over to 20W50 HiPo Brad Penn. D&S Muscle in Schiedam (NL) are our importers with reasonable pricing.

[Jesse/DVK]

Thanks Harry, already have been in contact with them. They have both the 20W50 and SAE40 available.

Anyone who could give me an answer on why to choose 20W50 of SAE40? Both have more zinc.