Engine and parts help... mild road engine project

[Nico86]

I read Berg recommands using stock style lifters, they have this http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=6_171 

[Zach Gomulka]

I think a cam that big will go to waste with stock, unported heads. The heads are where the power is made, invest there!

[Nico86]

I think a cam that big will go to waste with stock, unported heads. The heads are where the power is made, invest there!

Sure it would be better for the power, but for this engine I prefer stay soft with stock size valves, though heads will be re-worked a little.

[Zach Gomulka]

Then I suggest staying "soft" with the cam as well. The 120 is designed to work in a rpm range where the stock heads are not. You don't need big valves for good head flow. Just my two cents

[Nico86]

I think a cam that big will go to waste with stock, unported heads. The heads are where the power is made, invest there!

Yep but I guess it will "pump" more than a W100 or W110 to get the most out of my cheap heads (though I will work on the intakes, valves and valves seats etc... but keep stock size valves and a reasonable CR).

[Nico86]

Need a few more advices for my project.

I think I will go with some Berg lifters http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=6_171

Also I want to keep the heating system, I will use CSP, Berg or home-made bigger diameter and free-flow heating boxes like this : http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=anzeige&wkid=22166642293&rub1=Exhaust%20%2F%20Heating&rub2=Exhaust%20System-Modified%2CJ-Tubes%20%2F%20Heat%20Exchangers
(I think it will be home-made because that's a lot of $$$).
What's the correct header diameter to use 1 1/2" or 1 5/8" ?

And something I didn't think before are the manifolds maybe I will go with CSP or CB ones.

[Zach Gomulka]

Stock heater boxes & a standard 1 3/8" header will be fine since you're sticking with stock valves.

[Nico86]

Thanks Zack, that would save money, but will it be enough with the W120 ?

[qubek]

Thanks Zack, that would save money, but will it be enough with the W120 ?

Now this is an interesting question, because in your combo (taking into account the size of the engine, stock valves, 1 3/8 header) it is this camshaft that seems to "stand out". Too bad I don't know the answer 

[Nico86]

Yep, considering a cam with more duration and lift that will provide more intake and more exhaust even with stock valves, that would be logical to have a larger header... ...or not .

[Jim Ratto]

SODA ran his stock valve motor to 7100rpm

he also ran 1-5/8" exhaust, sorry no heat.

[Nico86]

For my engine 1 1/2" is ok I think, I really need to the have heating system so I will go with these heating boxes that are cheaper than CSP and Berg ones http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=det&wkid=42236323655&rub1=Exhaust%20%2F%20Heating&rub2=Exhaust%20System-Modified%2CJ-Tubes%20%2F%20Heat%20Exchangers&artnr=14002b&pn=0&sort=0&all=

[Donny B.]

I would go with an Engle 110 cam.  I had a 1776 with a 110 and stock valve size heads running 42 DCNFs and it was a great combination.  I drove it everywhere.  Nice wide power band with good top end.  It is an iconic cam for this size engine...

[Zach Gomulka]

You are on that borderline between 1 3/8" and 1 1/2". I'd go smaller to try and keep torque up, you're not going to have much of it with the 120 in a small motor. Plus, factory heater boxes work a LOT better than the aftermarket J tube type.

[j-f]

You should ask Nicolas about the 1776 he is selling in the classified.
Dynoed at 115hp, strong and reliable runner. (It's the engine he did the trip (and race it!) to scc back in 2008).

The way you plan to use it, you should think about torque. Vintage rallies, freeway driving and daily commuting are more about torque and driving between 2.500 and 4.500rpm.

[Doktor]

Thanks Zack, that would save money, but will it be enough with the W120 ?

I don't have firs hand expirience with that, but my friend from beetle club in Croatia has a 1776ccm motor with stock crank (non CW), stock heater boxes, CSp Super Competition exhaust and stock 35,5x32 heads and Engle W120...
He is driving it for years with no problems so far...

[rick m]

NICO86,

The biggest problem I see with most first time engine builders is they over-cam the motor.  A 110 Engle will give you everything you need for that motor. I have a 1915 driver motor I put a 110 cam in with mildly massaged heads and it gets 30+ mpg on the freeway and has more power than necessary for street use. It is dependable, idles nicely and works well.  The 120 is a cam a lot of us used in the early days for bracket racing. I've had 48 IDAs on a motor with a 120...

You will be happier with a 110 in your motor combination.  Your valve train and other things will like you better too.  The key is the combination and over-camming a motor just makes it less efficient.  All your power with that motor is bottom end and a slight mid range improvement. Like ZACH said, unless you do some head work there is no need to stick a 120 ENGLE on it.  You are just wasting the lift and duration as the heads will be the limiting factor.  I've done a lot of mildly ported stock valve heads that worked well with a slightly larger cam but I've always stayed mild on cam grinds if the other parts don't allow the cam it's full potentiol.

JMO

Rick M

[Nico86]

First, thanks for all your experiences and advices guys. 

Another way I forgot (I have a lot to learn!) would be to play with the ratio of the rockers ?

[Zach Gomulka]

If you're going to build a motor from scratch and you're planning on using ratio rockers, use 1.4's and a cam that is designed for them since 1.25's cost about the same as 1.4's. 1.4 cams are easier on your lifter bores, too. BUT, there is no sense in giving a small valve an immense amount of lift. As I remember, it is not recommended that the lift exceed 35% of the valve diameter. So in that case, a 35.5mm intake valve would take a max lift of .489". Anything over .430", maybe .450" (max) lift should use dual springs, also.

[Nico86]

If you're going to build a motor from scratch and you're planning on using ratio rockers, use 1.4's and a cam that is designed for them since 1.25's cost about the same as 1.4's. 1.4 cams are easier on your lifter bores, too. BUT, there is no sense in giving a small valve an immense amount of lift. As I remember, it is not recommended that the lift exceed 35% of the valve diameter. So in that case, a 35.5mm intake valve would take a max lift of .489". Anything over .430", maybe .450" (max) lift should use dual springs, also.

So for example with a W110, the lift is 0.392" :
with 1,1:1 rockers that's 0.431"
with 1,25 that's 0,490"
with 1,4 that's 0.549"

[Zach Gomulka]

Yes, but the 110 isn't designed to be used with 1.4's.

[Nico86]

Yes I read that.

[Jim Ratto]

V26 Engle if you run 1.4 or if you want milder powerband, FK65

FK65 was a bit of a meek choice we used in a 88 x 69 with Denham 40 x 35 heads, customer was happy, but I regretted using it.

[Nico86]

Thanks Jim 

[Zach Gomulka]

I used the FK65 in a 1776, stock valve ported heads, 8:1, 42 Specials, in my fastback. It was great highway motor, it suited that heavy car well I thought. A bug is lighter and can get away with more cam, IMO.

[Nico86]

One thing that is related to the engine : I have to send an oil pressure gauge for checking and calibrating with the sender, some of you had worked or know about this company : http://www.nhspeedometer.com/ ?

 

[Diederick/DVK]

i had them carry out some work. convert my 6 cyl 911 tacho to 4 cyl. i think that came out fine. but supposedly they recalibrated the tachometer and prevent the needle from bouncing around. but there's no real proof for that. all for $180. so, that makes me question their integrity...

[Nico86]

Thanks Died  They were fast or it took a longtime ?

[Diederick/DVK]

including shipping back and forth it took about 4 to 6 weeks?
i wasn't that happy though, the needle is still bouncing around like crazy. i know it's a common issue with the old porsche tachometers. but it makes me wonder what the heck i paid the extra cash for?

[Nico86]

Ok thanks Died