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Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
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Topic: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project (Read 156419 times)
Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #90 on:
October 24, 2010, 00:41:19 am »
I read Berg recommands using stock style lifters, they have this
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=6_171
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Zach Gomulka
Hero Member
Posts: 6991
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #91 on:
October 25, 2010, 22:49:39 pm »
I think a cam that big will go to waste with stock, unported heads. The heads are where the power is made, invest there!
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #92 on:
October 25, 2010, 23:01:01 pm »
Quote from: Zach Gomulka on October 25, 2010, 22:49:39 pm
I think a cam that big will go to waste with stock, unported heads. The heads are where the power is made, invest there!
Sure it would be better for the power, but for this engine I prefer stay soft with stock size valves, though heads will be re-worked a little.
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Zach Gomulka
Hero Member
Posts: 6991
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #93 on:
October 26, 2010, 00:20:17 am »
Then I suggest staying "soft" with the cam as well. The 120 is designed to work in a rpm range where the stock heads are not. You don't need big valves for good head flow. Just my two cents
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Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #94 on:
November 01, 2010, 00:17:59 am »
Quote from: Zach Gomulka on October 25, 2010, 22:49:39 pm
I think a cam that big will go to waste with stock, unported heads. The heads are where the power is made, invest there!
Yep but I guess it will "pump" more than a W100 or W110 to get the most out of my cheap heads (though I will work on the intakes, valves and valves seats etc... but keep stock size valves and a reasonable CR).
«
Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 00:23:34 am by Nico86
»
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Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #95 on:
November 01, 2010, 00:23:40 am »
Need a few more advices for my project.
I think I will go with some Berg lifters
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=6_171
Also I want to keep the heating system, I will use CSP, Berg or home-made bigger diameter and free-flow heating boxes like this :
http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=anzeige&wkid=22166642293&rub1=Exhaust%20%2F%20Heating&rub2=Exhaust%20System-Modified%2CJ-Tubes%20%2F%20Heat%20Exchangers
(I think it will be home-made because that's a lot of $$$).
What's the correct header diameter to use 1 1/2" or 1 5/8" ?
And something I didn't think before are the manifolds maybe I will go with CSP or CB ones.
«
Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 00:57:44 am by Nico86
»
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Zach Gomulka
Hero Member
Posts: 6991
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #96 on:
November 01, 2010, 05:50:01 am »
Stock heater boxes & a standard 1 3/8" header will be fine since you're sticking with stock valves.
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #97 on:
November 01, 2010, 19:01:32 pm »
Thanks Zack, that would save money, but will it be enough with the W120 ?
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qubek
Sr. Member
Posts: 300
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #98 on:
November 02, 2010, 10:49:36 am »
Quote from: Nico86 on November 01, 2010, 19:01:32 pm
Thanks Zack, that would save money, but will it be enough with the W120 ?
Now this is an interesting question, because in your combo (taking into account the size of the engine, stock valves, 1 3/8 header) it is this camshaft that seems to "stand out". Too bad I don't know the answer
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I have repro BRMs and I'm proud! :]
Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #99 on:
November 02, 2010, 22:13:18 pm »
Yep, considering a cam with more duration and lift that will provide more intake and more exhaust even with stock valves, that would be logical to have a larger header... ...or not
.
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Jim Ratto
Hero Member
Posts: 7121
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #100 on:
November 03, 2010, 18:53:41 pm »
SODA ran his stock valve motor to 7100rpm
he also ran 1-5/8" exhaust, sorry no heat.
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Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #101 on:
November 03, 2010, 19:22:08 pm »
For my engine 1 1/2" is ok I think, I really need to the have heating system so I will go with these heating boxes that are cheaper than CSP and Berg ones
http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=det&wkid=42236323655&rub1=Exhaust%20%2F%20Heating&rub2=Exhaust%20System-Modified%2CJ-Tubes%20%2F%20Heat%20Exchangers&artnr=14002b&pn=0&sort=0&all=
«
Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 19:40:30 pm by Nico86
»
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Donny B.
Hero Member
Posts: 1340
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #102 on:
November 03, 2010, 21:00:33 pm »
I would go with an Engle 110 cam. I had a 1776 with a 110 and stock valve size heads running 42 DCNFs and it was a great combination. I drove it everywhere. Nice wide power band with good top end. It is an iconic cam for this size engine...
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Don Bulitta
Wolfsburg Registry
Zach Gomulka
Hero Member
Posts: 6991
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #103 on:
November 04, 2010, 04:30:38 am »
You are on that borderline between 1 3/8" and 1 1/2". I'd go smaller to try and keep torque up, you're not going to have much of it with the 120 in a small motor. Plus, factory heater boxes work a LOT better than the aftermarket J tube type.
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
j-f
Hero Member
Posts: 1603
Jean-François
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #104 on:
November 04, 2010, 08:19:18 am »
You should ask Nicolas about the 1776 he is selling in the classified.
Dynoed at 115hp, strong and reliable runner. (It's the engine he did the trip (and race it!) to scc back in 2008).
The way you plan to use it, you should think about torque. Vintage rallies, freeway driving and daily commuting are more about torque and driving between 2.500 and 4.500rpm.
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Doktor
Full Member
Posts: 242
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #105 on:
November 04, 2010, 11:24:33 am »
Quote from: Nico86 on November 01, 2010, 19:01:32 pm
Thanks Zack, that would save money, but will it be enough with the W120 ?
I don't have firs hand expirience with that, but my friend from beetle club in Croatia has a 1776ccm motor with stock crank (non CW), stock heater boxes, CSp Super Competition exhaust and stock 35,5x32 heads and Engle W120...
He is driving it for years with no problems so far...
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dr.aircooled
rick m
Hero Member
Posts: 1296
Driving Hot VWs for 44 Years Strong!
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #106 on:
November 04, 2010, 15:23:00 pm »
NICO86,
The biggest problem I see with most first time engine builders is they over-cam the motor. A 110 Engle will give you everything you need for that motor. I have a 1915 driver motor I put a 110 cam in with mildly massaged heads and it gets 30+ mpg on the freeway and has more power than necessary for street use. It is dependable, idles nicely and works well. The 120 is a cam a lot of us used in the early days for bracket racing. I've had 48 IDAs on a motor with a 120...
You will be happier with a 110 in your motor combination. Your valve train and other things will like you better too. The key is the combination and over-camming a motor just makes it less efficient. All your power with that motor is bottom end and a slight mid range improvement. Like ZACH said, unless you do some head work there is no need to stick a 120 ENGLE on it. You are just wasting the lift and duration as the heads will be the limiting factor. I've done a lot of mildly ported stock valve heads that worked well with a slightly larger cam but I've always stayed mild on cam grinds if the other parts don't allow the cam it's full potentiol.
JMO
Rick M
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Rick Mortensen
Driving Hot VWs since 1970
Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #107 on:
November 04, 2010, 18:47:54 pm »
First, thanks for all your experiences and advices guys.
Another way I forgot (I have a lot to learn!) would be to play with the ratio of the rockers ?
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Zach Gomulka
Hero Member
Posts: 6991
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #108 on:
November 04, 2010, 20:19:04 pm »
If you're going to build a motor from scratch and you're planning on using ratio rockers, use 1.4's and a cam that is designed for them since 1.25's cost about the same as 1.4's. 1.4 cams are easier on your lifter bores, too. BUT, there is no sense in giving a small valve an immense amount of lift. As I remember, it is not recommended that the lift exceed 35% of the valve diameter. So in that case, a 35.5mm intake valve would take a max lift of .489". Anything over .430", maybe .450" (max) lift should use dual springs, also.
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Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #109 on:
November 04, 2010, 21:00:48 pm »
Quote from: Zach Gomulka on November 04, 2010, 20:19:04 pm
If you're going to build a motor from scratch and you're planning on using ratio rockers, use 1.4's and a cam that is designed for them since 1.25's cost about the same as 1.4's. 1.4 cams are easier on your lifter bores, too. BUT, there is no sense in giving a small valve an immense amount of lift. As I remember, it is not recommended that the lift exceed 35% of the valve diameter. So in that case, a 35.5mm intake valve would take a max lift of .489". Anything over .430", maybe .450" (max) lift should use dual springs, also.
So for example with a W110, the lift is 0.392" :
with 1,1:1 rockers that's 0.431"
with 1,25 that's 0,490"
with 1,4 that's 0.549"
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Zach Gomulka
Hero Member
Posts: 6991
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #110 on:
November 04, 2010, 21:40:33 pm »
Yes, but the 110 isn't designed to be used with 1.4's.
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Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #111 on:
November 04, 2010, 21:52:38 pm »
Yes I read that.
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Jim Ratto
Hero Member
Posts: 7121
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #112 on:
November 04, 2010, 22:21:56 pm »
V26 Engle if you run 1.4 or if you want milder powerband, FK65
FK65 was a bit of a meek choice we used in a 88 x 69 with Denham 40 x 35 heads, customer was happy, but I regretted using it.
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Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #113 on:
November 04, 2010, 23:29:33 pm »
Thanks Jim
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Zach Gomulka
Hero Member
Posts: 6991
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #114 on:
November 04, 2010, 23:58:30 pm »
I used the FK65 in a 1776, stock valve ported heads, 8:1, 42 Specials, in my fastback. It was great highway motor, it suited that heavy car well I thought. A bug is lighter and can get away with more cam, IMO.
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #115 on:
November 07, 2010, 02:51:41 am »
One thing that is related to the engine : I have to send an oil pressure gauge for checking and calibrating with the sender, some of you had worked or know about this company :
http://www.nhspeedometer.com/
?
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Diederick/DVK
Hero Member
Posts: 3692
They're never done till they're sold
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #116 on:
November 07, 2010, 15:34:44 pm »
i had them carry out some work. convert my 6 cyl 911 tacho to 4 cyl. i think that came out fine. but supposedly they recalibrated the tachometer and prevent the needle from bouncing around. but there's no real proof for that. all for $180. so, that makes me question their integrity...
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Diederick
-
Proud member of:
DVK ~
Der Vollgas Kreuzers
Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #117 on:
November 07, 2010, 19:46:59 pm »
Thanks Died
They were fast or it took a longtime ?
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Diederick/DVK
Hero Member
Posts: 3692
They're never done till they're sold
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #118 on:
November 07, 2010, 20:49:07 pm »
including shipping back and forth it took about 4 to 6 weeks?
i wasn't that happy though, the needle is still bouncing around like crazy. i know it's a common issue with the old porsche tachometers. but it makes me wonder what the heck i paid the extra cash for?
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Diederick
-
Proud member of:
DVK ~
Der Vollgas Kreuzers
Nico86
Hero Member
Posts: 6354
Turnip engine.
Re: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project
«
Reply #119 on:
November 07, 2010, 23:07:34 pm »
Ok thanks Died
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