Engine and parts help... mild road engine project

[qubek]

I don't know what is this thing that is dragging you away from VW's but... wouldn't you prefer at least to finish what you have started? I don't know if it's still important for you, but even if you will resign (hopefully not) from the hobby, at least you're able to say that you did it, and not that you've been walking around this engine project for years without having it done, without success. Especially that you're that close.

As for some of your questions... I don't feel entitled to advise you, because in my opinion the fact that I have done something in a given way doesn't mean that a different solution is worse or as good as the one chosen by me. I think that in most cases when you have a dilemma, both your ideas make sense. Those engines our there... most of them are not efficient (just compare them to what Johannes does) but they run well and their users as satisfied.

[Nico86]

I don't know what is this thing that is dragging you away from VW's but... wouldn't you prefer at least to finish what you have started? I don't know if it's still important for you, but even if you will resign (hopefully not) from the hobby, at least you're able to say that you did it, and not that you've been walking around this engine project for years without having it done, without success. Especially that you're that close.

Honestly, I don't really know if I'll do it or not... I'm far away from it, these days I only feel glad I didn't sold the car considering the stupid an weird things I've done. Though today I stumbled upon a NOS S&S dual quiet-pack with its extractor for sale. Exactly the one I want, the size I would need for this engine, non-merged and with un-flared and un-chromed tips (as I prefer the black ones). I ask the guy for price and shipping and I'll see, it's tempting   And since past autumn I have all the parts ready, balanced and checked at home, waiting to already assemble the long-block (without the heads that I have to rework).

As for some of your questions... I don't feel entitled to advise you, because in my opinion the fact that I have done something in a given way doesn't mean that a different solution is worse or as good as the one chosen by me. I think that in most cases when you have a dilemma, both your ideas make sense. Those engines our there... most of them are not efficient (just compare them to what Johannes does) but they run well and their users as satisfied.

I choose the SLR XV290 cam because it's 'sharper' than the Engle W110 and would allow me to be able to replace my 'home made' stock-sized heads and 40IDF to bigger and proper heads and carbs one day without putting the whole engine apart. This cam may seem slightly 'oversized' but I guess it would be a fun engine to drive anyway. Plus I have the matching SLR-Wiesmann lifters coming with the cam so...

I think I'll use the XV290, but at the point I am now, I will have the heads cut for dual springs, this will be the only thing that I will not do by myself on the this engine (along with balancing the crank and accessories) but it will be safer. Maybe I will hate this cam and change for a W110-like with single springs later... But at least I will not break and ruin everything by running single springs with a sharp cam. And it's true, as long as it runs well and don't broke-down, I think it could be a nice engine.

[qubek]

But this XV 290 is not a monster of a cam is it? I know that people used to "over-cam" engines and this is why everybody are talking about not doing it now. But my impression is that people are talking about not over-caming the engines for so many years, that they started to be afraid of "hotter" cams and are very often building "bus-engines", even if it is not necessary. I'm not an expert and I may be wrong, but even if this cam is not the best cam for the application (and I'm not saying that this is the case) I don't think it's that far off that you would hate it.

[Nico86]

But this XV 290 is not a monster of a cam is it? I know that people used to "over-cam" engines and this is why everybody are talking about not doing it now. But my impression is that people are talking about not over-caming the engines for so many years, that they started to be afraid of "hotter" cams and are very often building "bus-engines", even if it is not necessary. I'm not an expert and I may be wrong, but even if this cam is not the best cam for the application (and I'm not saying that this is the case) I don't think it's that far off that you would hate it.

No it's not a monster, I'll post the specs sheet later. It's just sharper that the commonly used 'mid-range W110'. Plus I'll use it with 1.1:1 rockers. Hating the XV290 and having to put the engine apart to replace it isn't the thing that would bother me the most, but breaking and ruining everything because of wrong springs would p*ss me off! So I will just play it safe and use dual valve springs, now I don't mind to have to pay for the heads to be cutted for duals.
And I think you're right, maybe it risks to be not the 'perfect engine', but it will certainly be a looooooot more fun to drive than the stock 1300-single-port engine I have in the car since years.  

[Zach Gomulka]

That cam is great for the current combo, and if you ever decide to upgrade the top end it will really wake up!

[bugnut68]

I don't know what is this thing that is dragging you away from VW's but... wouldn't you prefer at least to finish what you have started? I don't know if it's still important for you, but even if you will resign (hopefully not) from the hobby, at least you're able to say that you did it, and not that you've been walking around this engine project for years without having it done, without success. Especially that you're that close.

Honestly, I don't really know if I'll do it or not... I'm far away from it, these days I only feel glad I didn't sold the car considering the stupid an weird things I've done. Though today I stumbled upon a NOS S&S dual quiet-pack with its extractor for sale. Exactly the one I want, the size I would need for this engine, non-merged and with un-flared and un-chromed tips (as I prefer the black ones). I ask the guy for price and shipping and I'll see, it's tempting   And since past autumn I have all the parts ready, balanced and checked at home, waiting to already assemble the long-block (without the heads that I have to rework).

As for some of your questions... I don't feel entitled to advise you, because in my opinion the fact that I have done something in a given way doesn't mean that a different solution is worse or as good as the one chosen by me. I think that in most cases when you have a dilemma, both your ideas make sense. Those engines our there... most of them are not efficient (just compare them to what Johannes does) but they run well and their users as satisfied.

I choose the SLR XV290 cam because it's 'sharper' than the Engle W110 and would allow me to be able to replace my 'home made' stock-sized heads and 40IDF to bigger and proper heads and carbs one day without putting the whole engine apart. This cam may seem slightly 'oversized' but I guess it would be a fun engine to drive anyway. Plus I have the matching SLR-Wiesmann lifters coming with the cam so...

I think I'll use the XV290, but at the point I am now, I will have the heads cut for dual springs, this will be the only thing that I will not do by myself on the this engine (along with balancing the crank and accessories) but it will be safer. Maybe I will hate this cam and change for a W110-like with single springs later... But at least I will not break and ruin everything by running single springs with a sharp cam. And it's true, as long as it runs well and don't broke-down, I think it could be a nice engine.

I flip-flopped for awhile as to whether to continue with my current 2017 build... I can say, it's really easy to get discouraged and frustrated when things go to hell.  Only reason I'm continuing my build is because John Bates gave me a SCREAMING deal on another case.  Otherwise I would have had no problem parting it out and being done with things for now.

Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to get away from things to gain perspective, too.  Even if a guy ultimately decides to go down a different path, it's not the end of the world, by any means... most VW guys always wind up coming back eventually. 

[Nico86]

That cam is great for the current combo, and if you ever decide to upgrade the top end it will really wake up!

Yes 

I flip-flopped for awhile as to whether to continue with my current 2017 build... I can say, it's really easy to get discouraged and frustrated when things go to hell.  Only reason I'm continuing my build is because John Bates gave me a SCREAMING deal on another case.  Otherwise I would have had no problem parting it out and being done with things for now.

Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to get away from things to gain perspective, too.  Even if a guy ultimately decides to go down a different path, it's not the end of the world, by any means... most VW guys always wind up coming back eventually. 

  (glad to know you've got another case)

[Nico86]

So I bought this NOS S&S dual quiet-pack, must receive it in a couple of weeks.

[Nico86]

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[Nico86]

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[bugnut68]

That cam is great for the current combo, and if you ever decide to upgrade the top end it will really wake up!

Yes 

I flip-flopped for awhile as to whether to continue with my current 2017 build... I can say, it's really easy to get discouraged and frustrated when things go to hell.  Only reason I'm continuing my build is because John Bates gave me a SCREAMING deal on another case.  Otherwise I would have had no problem parting it out and being done with things for now.

Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to get away from things to gain perspective, too.  Even if a guy ultimately decides to go down a different path, it's not the end of the world, by any means... most VW guys always wind up coming back eventually. 

  (glad to know you've got another case)

Yup... everyone's got a breaking point, and I've come close to mine.  I've never fought an engine build like I have with this 2017.  It's almost as though there's a higher power speaking to me, telling me it's time to move on to other things for the time being.  Just recently pinched a main bearing and have to get the pin drilled out.  My issue is largely the lack of nearby resources... I've just recently discovered a guy that does good work and has a good reputation that lives about three hours away; for me that's as nearby as it gets.  lol. 

[Nico86]

That cam is great for the current combo, and if you ever decide to upgrade the top end it will really wake up!

Yes  

I flip-flopped for awhile as to whether to continue with my current 2017 build... I can say, it's really easy to get discouraged and frustrated when things go to hell.  Only reason I'm continuing my build is because John Bates gave me a SCREAMING deal on another case.  Otherwise I would have had no problem parting it out and being done with things for now.

Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to get away from things to gain perspective, too.  Even if a guy ultimately decides to go down a different path, it's not the end of the world, by any means... most VW guys always wind up coming back eventually.  

  (glad to know you've got another case)

Yup... everyone's got a breaking point, and I've come close to mine.  I've never fought an engine build like I have with this 2017.  It's almost as though there's a higher power speaking to me, telling me it's time to move on to other things for the time being.  Just recently pinched a main bearing and have to get the pin drilled out.  My issue is largely the lack of nearby resources... I've just recently discovered a guy that does good work and has a good reputation that lives about three hours away; for me that's as nearby as it gets.  lol.  

Yep I know what you mean. Well I received this dual quiet pack who looks great so it's giving some kind of motivation   And tomorrow I'm gonna pick up another '68 bug I bought during the week and I'll use it as a my new daily driver, so after having almost sold my Beetle this spring I'll now have two and I'll be able to work on the other one and this engine  

[bugnut68]

That's a pretty old set-up... I know S&S had the flared tips for the longest time, but I remember seeing ads in early '80s and late '70s Hot VWs with the non-flared tips.  Amazing it's survived that long unused!

[Nico86]

That's a pretty old set-up... I know S&S had the flared tips for the longest time, but I remember seeing ads in early '80s and late '70s Hot VWs with the non-flared tips.  Amazing it's survived that long unused!

I like the fact that it's got non-flarred and non-chromed tips 

[bugnut68]

I think about the only thing you can get as far as "merged" dual QPs now are made by Bugpack... they have the chromed, non-flared tips, last I checked... I've always liked the flared tips more, though

[Nico86]

I think about the only thing you can get as far as "merged" dual QPs now are made by Bugpack... they have the chromed, non-flared tips, last I checked... I've always liked the flared tips more, though

Yes. Flat 4 sells a dual as well, but I've never been able to find one anywhere, it comes with chromed and flared tips. CSP has a stainless steel one in their own exhaust range.
I've found some NOS or slightly used ones for sale, but most of the time it seems they were large flange   And I don't know if Berg made them for small flange.
Finally this S&S is for a small flange header.

[bugnut68]

None of the vendors here in the U.S. carry the Flat4 mufflers, near as I can tell... not to say they couldn't order them, but I do like that style/design. 

[Nico86]

Project pending, but still going  I just have moved to a new place so hopefully I'll be able to keep going with it in a few months.

At the end of last year I got another set of 40IDF, rebuilt and ready to go with a set of jets. I once again did a list of everything I have and what I need to get. Mostly I'm just missing a few of the small engine tin parts, a Bosch blue coil, pushrods, a generator and I have to have my heads modified for unleaded gas.

I am still unsure about whether to use single or dual valve springs with the SLR XV290 cam, also deciding about which pushrods to use (whether aluminium or steel) will also depend on this 

[Nico86]

I am still unsure about whether to use single or dual valve springs with the SLR XV290 cam, also deciding about which pushrods to use (whether aluminium or steel) will also depend on this  

I've been checking again my notes and infos I got, and I really need more infos/inputs about this. My first thought was to go with Berg single valve springs, and aluminium pushrods... but I am still undediced.
Anyone?

Edit : I got in my notes Bugpack 4046 dual springs

[Dougy Dee]

I am still unsure about whether to use single or dual valve springs with the SLR XV290 cam, also deciding about which pushrods to use (whether aluminium or steel) will also depend on this  

I've been checking again my notes and infos I got, and I really need more infos/inputs about this. My first thought was to go with Berg single valve springs, and aluminium pushrods... but I am still undediced.
Anyone?

Edit : I got in my notes Bugpack 4046 dual springs

My understanding and opinion is 'dual carbs, dual springs'. A single carb, single spring, engine only revs so fast. Make it breathe, add dual carbs, and now its bouncing valves off the seats as the singles cant control the bounce harmonics. 

Also, dont kid yourself about that XV290. It specs out more like an Engle 120 on steroids.  252 duration @ .050 and .419 cam lift...It'll be FUN.

[Nico86]

I am still unsure about whether to use single or dual valve springs with the SLR XV290 cam, also deciding about which pushrods to use (whether aluminium or steel) will also depend on this  

I've been checking again my notes and infos I got, and I really need more infos/inputs about this. My first thought was to go with Berg single valve springs, and aluminium pushrods... but I am still undediced.
Anyone?

Edit : I got in my notes Bugpack 4046 dual springs

My understanding and opinion is 'dual carbs, dual springs'. A single carb, single spring, engine only revs so fast. Make it breathe, add dual carbs, and now its bouncing valves off the seats as the singles cant control the bounce harmonics. 

Also, dont kid yourself about that XV290. It specs out more like an Engle 120 on steroids.  252 duration @ .050 and .419 cam lift...It'll be FUN.

Thanks for your infos! Do you have any preference about dual springs? Berg, Bugpack 4046?

[Iryanu]

I am still unsure about whether to use single or dual valve springs with the SLR XV290 cam, also deciding about which pushrods to use (whether aluminium or steel) will also depend on this  

I've been checking again my notes and infos I got, and I really need more infos/inputs about this. My first thought was to go with Berg single valve springs, and aluminium pushrods... but I am still undediced.
Anyone?

Edit : I got in my notes Bugpack 4046 dual springs

I have some stateside single springs in my engine. I don't know if the spec checks out for you as they were chosen for me.

This is not an ordinary uprated valve spring, the material used SWOSC-V, is the best available in today’s manufacturing industry and the same wire quality as used in the Japan motorcycle industry.

Using modern day manufacturing processes we have been able to achieve a valve spring that gives huge travel before coil bind and will not distort or loose poundage rates common with the typical import springs. From the installed height this spring gives good progression in poundage rates. The high quality wire used is 4.3mm on the outer spring and 3.1mm on the inner spring, the manufacturing process includes and heat treatment two times to safe guard against fatigue.

These will fit all Type 1 cylinder heads and Type 4 with minor guide boss machining.

Full range of base shim sizes available to suit T1 and T4 cylinder heads

In House Testing
Using light weight valve train parts we have thoroughly tested these springs on Type 4 engines running 86B Web camshafts with just the single valve spring. We have also tested them on type 1 engines with Web 86A & 86B camshafts with 1.4 ratio rocker arms on just the single valve spring.

Checking pressures using Longacre digital spring testing equipment:

Single spring
 In a single spring form measured at installed 1.50" – 111lbs
 0.400 – 219lbs 0.450 – 234lbs 0.500 – 247lbs 0.550 – 263lbs

Duel spring
 In dual spring form installed at 1.53" – 149lbs
 0.400 – 297lbs 0.450 – 342lbs 0.500 – 367lbs 0.550 – 391lbs 0.600 – 415lbs
 Coil bind at 0.712”

Installed heights can be altered to allow more or less pressure dependent upon engine requirements.



http://statesidetuning.com/newproducts.html

[Nico86]

I have some stateside single springs in my engine. I don't know if the spec checks out for you as they were chosen for me.

Thanks for the info, what are your engine and valve train specs?

[Iryanu]

I have some stateside single springs in my engine. I don't know if the spec checks out for you as they were chosen for me.

Thanks for the info, what are your engine and valve train specs?

CB Alu case
84x90.5 2161cc
5.5 H beam
Web 111 camshaft (276° 238° @ at .050"  0.476" lift)
Bolt up rockers 1:1
CB light-weight lifters
Manton pushrods
No idea what casting heads, P&P by RNJ 40x35.5 valves (I think)
44IDF

Nice streetable engine.

[Nico86]

Thanks for your infos Iryanu (:

Mantons are steel/chromly pushrods right?

[Martin S.]

I'll never use crmo pushrods again. They are just too noisy.

[Nico86]

I'll never use crmo pushrods again. They are just too noisy.

That's what I thought too, and why I'm thinking of using aluminium pushrods. Some say they are more fragile? But ain't aluminium supposed to expand while the engine is heating, keeping then valve train settings more accurate?

[Paul Bahnstormerz]

I'm using a single HD valve from Stateside Tuning, and a Mercedes inner spring so my poundage is less than regular dual springs. This with ti retainers, scat rockers and aluminium pushrods, carbs are 44IDF and then it's going in laughing gas

http://statesidetuning.com/newproducts.html

[Nico86]

I'm using a single HD valve from Stateside Tuning, and a Mercedes inner spring so my poundage is less than regular dual springs. This with ti retainers, scat rockers and aluminium pushrods, carbs are 44IDF and then it's going in laughing gas

http://statesidetuning.com/newproducts.html

Which alu pushrods are you using?

Forgot to mention I'm using Scat 1.1:1 rockers.

[andy198712]

I'm using the single state side Spring also,

T1, 40x35 044 heads, 86B, CB lightweight followers, stateside's ally pushrods.

Speak to Jim he'll tell you what installed height you want and how much poundage that'll give
A plus is there cheap too!