36hp Mods

[modnrod]

Gday Richard.
Cool stand!
My 2c for the high idle is probably either too much fuel/air mix, which means even though the screws are shut off they may also need idle feed restrictions (just a guess based on V8 Holley/Carter stuff though, never had twin singles on an ACVW, sorry), or else a manifold vacuum leak somewhere. Have you checked the carbs for small vacuum hose connections that aren't plugged up? Crossover connections on the runner stacks that have cracks?
Cool looking old Dak-Dak man! 

[RichardinNZ]

Modnrod; thanks for the thoughts.  Need to double check for air leaks again.
regards
Richard

[hotrodsurplus]

Idle-feed restrictor is caveman speak for idle-fuel jets. They govern the part-throttle fuel curve.

Are the throttle shafts tight in the bore? One slightly leaky shaft may not leak enough air to affect the idle speed but two leaky shafts will.

Also, just because a carburetor throttle-shaft bore has been rebushed doesn't mean that the carburetor will work properly. When the throttle-shaft bore wears the harder brass butterfly will gouge a nice trough in the throttle bore. Even though I had Rimco re-bush the 34PICT3 for another car I couldn't figure out why I couldn't set a really slow idle until I started working with Solex PII carburetors. Those suffer it terribly.

just a thought....

[RichardinNZ]

Thanks for the additional thoughts. I'll have a closer look at the carbs although did initially think that they were ok.

Hope to post a movie of it running soon too.

Thanks

Richard

[Donny B.]

Check for air leaks with carb cleaner.  Spray it at the base of the manifolds and the base of the carbs and around the outside of the carb.  Do this while the engine is running and if the speed changes dramatically then you have found the leak.  Old school...

[hotrodsurplus]

Check for air leaks with carb cleaner.  Spray it at the base of the manifolds and the base of the carbs and around the outside of the carb.  Do this while the engine is running and if the speed changes dramatically then you have found the leak.  Old school...

It works but it's never been foolproof for me. I've had examples where carb cleaner didn't reveal leaks, especially ones behind a maze of parts. And because I'm a tight ass and rattle can my tins the carb cleaner sometimes eats up the finish. Also some modern carb cleaners aren't flammable.

Here's another old-school way. Get a foot-long piece of fuel hose with an ID about the same diameter as the OD of a propane torch tube (sometimes you have to remove the mixer). Turn on the torch and waft the hose end over the suspect areas. It's never let me down. Plus it won't mess up your finish. And last I checked they haven't changed propane to a non-flammable formula. At least not yet. Give them time. 

But definitely try the carb cleaner first if it won't mess up your tin finish. Way more convenient. 

[RichardinNZ]

Used the carb cleaner and did get a drop in speed; mainly around the spindles so rebuilds will be needed sometime. Will just put up with it for now though so I can enjoy the car over the summer.

Thanks for the assistance.

Richard

[hotrodsurplus]

rebuilds will be needed sometime.

Sorry bud but they're beyond just rebuilding. They need to be bushed. It's not the end of the world but it's not exactly a common procedure anymore. Don't bother bushing them if you can feel even a faint line where the butterflies meet the throttle bores. That indicates that the butterflies have dug in and you'll never get a good idle if that's the case. They need to be bored at that point and that's a super-involved operation compared to bushing them.

[RichardinNZ]

Sorry for delayed reply...packing ready to move houses (and before that trying to find a house...all sorted now with a good garage and car port!).  Will pull the carbs in the winter and check them over some more in light of your advice.  For now will enjoy driving the car and our show season!

Thanks
Richard

[RichardinNZ]

Update on my car...

Finally back on the road again having destroyed a clutch release bearing in Oct'14...now with rebuilt tunnel trans (with superdiff etc ready for a stroker engine one day...), new Koni shocks all round, Goodridge Classic Brake Hoses, Type 3 rear brakes and a 14" Berg Shifter.

Great to be driving again...

Next step will be to get the rear wheels widened (I'm thinking 5 inch with increased back space allowable by fitting the Type 3 drums), and 185/80 tyres on the rear and 155/80 on the front....along with a minor decamber on the rear to move from the current positive camber....probably early in 2016.

Richard

[RichardinNZ]

Ok...finally got some wheels widened.  But as usual one step forward and two steps back.

Took off the existing rear wheel to check the fit of the new wheel (5 1/2 inch rims added to original centres  with maximum backspace to hide the fact that they are widened when looking from the side).  All seems OK.  However, when refitting the original wheel I've managed to somehow strip the thread for one bolt.  Didn't do anything different to what I had always done, but think it must just be the quality of the Type3 drums I've fitted?

I'm assuming the best option is to fit studs?  Does anyone know of a 'how to' anywhere for this?  Are these the studs I need?  http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/aftermarket-wheel-stud-m14-50mm-press-style-porsche-p-15136 .   I'm assuming that given the potential 'softness' of the drums the press in studs would be better than screw in studs?

The widened wheel in case anyone wants to see....



Thanks
Richard

[andrewlandon67]

Man, your wheel setup is almost identical to what I'm looking at for my '67, but with smoothies instead of the goofy '66/'67 wheels... I was considering doing mine to 5 inches up front and 5.5 in the rear, but absolutely nobody in Denver wants to widen steel wheels unless almost all of the work is done for them, so the 5 inchers I found at a swap meet will have to do for the rears... Glad to see someone else wanting to do steelies on a looker, I thought I might be the only one!

[RichardinNZ]

I will soon be in LA and it'd be a good opportunity to buy a gift for the '58.   Would my setup benefit from ratio rockers (to save people reading the whole thread the engine is stock 36hp bottom end, cam etc but large intake valves in Stock 36hp single port heads,compression now 7.5:1, dual 28pci carbs, stock exhaust and TDE big bore tail pipes).

Thanks

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[Zach Gomulka]

They might help, especially if you give it a little port work.

[richie]

If you can get some grab them, they seem to be hard to get and if you don't need them straight away then you will as the tuning progresses 

cheers Richie

[RichardinNZ]

Thanks for the help.

Yes, thinking of exploring the power of 36hp a little further before upgrading to something much larger...   Add rockers and an exhaust (I've been told there will soon be a quiet Sebring style available for 36hp)?

However, if I can manage to find them, the Speedwell rockers are available in 1.25:1 and 1.4:1.  I'm guessing I'd go for the lower ratio?  Also, I was assuming that this was just a bolt on job, but as my heads are skimmed (2mm) and compression increased could I possibly have an issue with valve/piston clearance?

Richard

[richie]

The 1.4/1 definitely cause other problems, the lifter/pushrod cant change angle like a conventional VW and the 1.4s work through more of an arc so need to be able to, not sure how bad it is with 1.25s

[RichardinNZ]

Thanks for that.  I'll see what I can find out about the 1.25s.

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[RichardinNZ]

Found some 1.4s.   I'm told by a 36hp specialist that  they will be OK with stock lifters/pushrods and also with my flycut heads.  However, if there is a problem with the lifters etc I will move to 'conventional'  2 piece setup.   Have also sourced some aluminum valve covers to give the clearance needed.   With the obligatory t-shirts etc from the trip I think my suitcase is now full up!

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[JeeWee]

cool, good work, I also run a dual carb 36hp, but then with the WW okrasa heads, and modified my stock exhaust with TDE tail pipes and I also removed the preheat pipes, just cut out the preheat pipe and welded a piece of metal in, this improves the flow as well. Make sure you run a Original VW muffler, see also a thread about this on the samba, as original exhaust do have a better flow then some repro's.

[RichardinNZ]

Good point about the original VW exhaust; however mine is a repro!  I'm still aiming for a Sebring style sometime later this year!

[JeeWee]

yesterday I spend about an hour to find that topic about the original exhaust on the samba for you to post the link, but I didn't succeed to find it. the issue is that some aftermarket mufflers have baffles in the exhaust which has quite some impact on the flow. It is a cheaper way to produce so that's why.
But when you remove the preheat pipe you will get some more flow as well! Original VW exhaust can be found around 200 euro's, so it is cheaper then a flat 4 or whatever vintage speed exhaust, and doubt the improvement, so if you are on a budget this might be the best way to go. Also Original VW exhaust has more or less equal pipe length.

[RichardinNZ]

Vintage Speed now list a Sebring style exhaust for 36hp engines; see http://shop.vintagespeed.com.tw/s.nl/it.A/id.872/.f

I've checked with them and this is manufactured with 38mm pipes.  My 36hp is only mildly tuned (to recap; stock single port heads flycut for 7.5:1 compression, 33mm intake valves, dual 28PCI carbs, stock bottom end, soon to be fitted 1.4:1 ratio rockers, VJU4BR8 distributor with same curve as 019 or Resolit distributor reputedly same curve as 010).

How well suited to my setup do people this this exhaust might be; are the pipes too large for my engine?

Many thanks
Richard

[RichardinNZ]

Anyone able to help with this?  Thanks.

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[RichardinNZ]

Photographed today; now with rebuilt 28PCI carbs, 1.4:1 ratio rockers, vintage speed sebring exhaust and 205/70x15 tyres on the rear ( mounted on widened 5.5 inch stock wheels).  Needs a good clean and eventually some bodywork....




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[RichardinNZ]

Still making minor changes and improvements and driving as much as I can.

https://youtu.be/tGjPWgpS-3M

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[RichardinNZ]

I've been perfecting the stance over the past couple of weeks after fitting 145/80R15 Michelin XZX on the front (205/70R15 on the rear) . Also fitted EMPI wide5 disc brakes on the front (which despite all the criticisms of EMPI fitted without a hitch).

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[andrewlandon67]

I've been perfecting the stance over the past couple of weeks after fitting 145/80R15 Michelin XZX on the front (205/70R15 on the rear) . Also fitted EMPI wide5 disc brakes on the front (which despite all the criticisms of EMPI fitted without a hitch).

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Richard, that thing's looking hard as all get-out! I really like the wheels, they really set the whole car off!

[RichardinNZ]

Thanks!   Wheels were decided by my budget but I'm really pleased with them. Stock front (4 inch) and 5.5inch rims on stock centres rear.   The trim rings help but most important the tyre choice.

They look better on the rear where I have studs.  Looking to fit studs on the front too.

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[Vdubchef]

Nearly finished...





Where did you find those velocity stacks for 28 pci carbs? Have a similar set up on my -65 bug.