type1 vs type4 ;D

[nicolas]

 it's all in good fun. we all know you have those who swear by one or the other.

BUT! if two engines would be build in much the same configuration what would be the benefits of one type to the other? we are benchracing here 

[glenn]

Just like Chevy small block vs big block.

[chopper476]

type 1 would probably end up cheaper.

[Martin Greaves]

Oh dear off to the shop to get some popcorn.

[Eddie DVK]

I am waiting for Richie 

[BeetleBug]

I am waiting for Richie 

 

Pictures says it all; 71 x 103 T4:

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-BB-

[bugnut68]

type 1 would probably end up cheaper.

And we all know how cheap Volkswagen people are...lol.

[nicolas]

I am waiting for Richie 

i am sure he isn't the only one with an opinion, right... 

[modnrod]

I'm probably wrong (uhmmm, it happens a lot!  ), but.........

Type 1 has readily available high-flow heads off the shelf cheaply, so easy to make good revs and HP up top.

Type 4 heads are expensive, and valve-to-bore ratios suit lower revs and torque.

I'll just jump and duck behind the lounge before the fan gets started up..........
 

PS Good question though, I have the option of either, so considering both........

[Eddie DVK]

I'm probably wrong (uhmmm, it happens a lot!  ), but.........

Type 4 heads are expensive, and valve-to-bore ratios suit lower revs and torque.

The same with the short rods.

[modnrod]

The same with the short rods.

Oops.

I think this discussion just went past the point of no return! HAHAHA!

[fish]

type 4 rules
type 1 sux
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.
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only kidding........type 4 may last longer, have more torque/less HP, depending on configuration could be as cheap as type 1, if performance per $$$ definitely Type 1 but needs to be built right to last.

No hiding on this one as I've built both.

[Chris bugster]

I used to have a mild T4 2056 with which I used to regularly do 100mph + on the freeway with no problems. I tried to drive a T1 1776 the same way and it didn't like it too much- lots of oil temp etc.

[Rasser]

The difference is your starting point really. Because no one on this forum drives a stock engine I´m sure?!
start with std. 50hp type1?
start with std. 100hp type4?

If you want 140-150hp, then just add CR, cam, carburetors and exhaust to your std. 2L type4 (914 2.0 heads).

For a street car that faces real problems like cooling capabilities and reliability, the type4 wins big time.

Making a type4 fit into a type1, and make it look at home at the same time.....  that takes a lot more time (and money), than just putting in a type1 engine. But it is worth all the time and money to modify the type4 engine to fit. Much better cooling and reliability.

Ever put a type1 and a type4 head besides each other and looked at the cooling fins?? 

For racing, I personally think I would go for the type1.

[modnrod]

Ever put a type1 and a type4 head besides each other and looked at the cooling fins?? 

Yep. Impressive, and for my conditions, not to be disregarded out of hand, even just for a weekend fun car, because I still have to drive at least an hour on the highway to get anywhere.

I have the bits I need (apart from the crank, not ordered yet) to put together a 82 stroke x 83 bore Single Port motor. It should spin happily to 5500 easily all day, have excellent heat capability and excellent mid-range torque. I picked 83mm bore for the barrels (thanks Wout!  ), they are really thick.

And then I walk past the even thicker 93mm T4 barrels I also have, the ones sitting on the 1.8L on the floor, the ones with those head fins staring at me............

I think if I ran a 0.82 top gear with my 3.88 diff to give me 3000rpm@120kph in my '73 Super, it would STILL cool effectively with a stock Type1 Doghouse shroud, even in mid-40*C and 10% humidity.

[Dougy Dee]

The difference is your starting point really. Because no one on this forum drives a stock engine I´m sure?!
start with std. 50hp type1?
start with std. 100hp type4?

Where do you find a std. 100HP type4? The GC coded T4 engine shows 84 SAE net Hp @ 4900rpm.

I have a nice little EA code 1700 waiting some attention. 79HP @4900rpm.

I was seriously impressed with the CB coded 1700 in my bus. I kept trying to make it self destruct but it just kept going...What a tractor...Pissed oil out of every place imaginable and kept chugging. Got 25 miles per imperial gallon with the standard dual carb set up. I wasn't a T4 fan until this bus won me over.

[Rasser]

The difference is your starting point really. Because no one on this forum drives a stock engine I´m sure?!
start with std. 50hp type1?
start with std. 100hp type4?

Where do you find a std. 100HP type4? The GC coded T4 engine shows 84 SAE net Hp @ 4900rpm.

I have a nice little EA code 1700 waiting some attention. 79HP @4900rpm.

I was seriously impressed with the CB coded 1700 in my bus. I kept trying to make it self destruct but it just kept going...What a tractor...Pissed oil out of every place imaginable and kept chugging. Got 25 miles per imperial gallon with the standard dual carb set up. I wasn't a T4 fan until this bus won me over.

The Porsche 914 2.0 GB type4 engine makes 100hp from the factory (heads have 42-36valves, and different sparkplug angle)
I used heads from that engine when I did my type4 for my bug. I used a Webcam494 (280degree advertised), 9:1CR, 1-1/2" header, 48´s, std. 94mm 914 2.0 pistons+71mm 2.0 crankshaft=1971cc  - Result: 146hp
I only touched the heads lightly, and changed the valves to 8mm, still factory size valves (42-36mm).
Mounted a 30hp CSP fanshroud without doghouse, and put the big doghouse fan inside (lots of air forced over the heads and cylinders) - but no cooler in the fan shroud (big oilcooler beneath the tranny instead).
I never got that thing above 95 degrees, and believe me I tried! Once going to Germany we drove at 150km/h steady for about an hour on the autobahn, and the oiltemperature just stayed at 90-95 degrees. I wasnt brave enough to find the limits of that engine...
I was seriuosly impressed with the cooling capabilities of that engine!

[HERB]

Isn't there some guy in Georgia that fiddles with Type 4 engines?

[Eddie DVK]

The Porsche 914 2.0 GB type4 engine makes 100hp from the factory (heads have 42-36valves, and different sparkplug angle)
I used heads from that engine when I did my type4 for my bug. I used a Webcam494 (280degree advertised), 9:1CR, 1-1/2" header, 48´s, std. 94mm 914 2.0 pistons+71mm 2.0 crankshaft=1971cc  - Result: 146hp
I only touched the heads lightly, and changed the valves to 8mm, still factory size valves (42-36mm).
Mounted a 30hp CSP fanshroud without doghouse, and put the big doghouse fan inside (lots of air forced over the heads and cylinders) - but no cooler in the fan shroud (big oilcooler beneath the tranny instead).
I never got that thing above 95 degrees, and believe me I tried! Once going to Germany we drove at 150km/h steady for about an hour on the autobahn, and the oiltemperature just stayed at 90-95 degrees. I wasnt brave enough to find the limits of that engine...
I was seriuosly impressed with the cooling capabilities of that engine!

 

On my way to SCC last year this is in Sweden with temp around 20 dgr celcius
Temp staid all day at around 90 Celsius only type 4 cooler(standard place in type 1 doghouse shroud)  no extra cooler.
so maybe those RPM s are good for cooling.

[Eddie DVK]

Ever put a type1 and a type4 head besides each other and looked at the cooling fins?? 

But Type 4 heads are known for dropping valveseats because the head got to hot, but this was mainly in bus engines, they had to work hard because of heavy bus.
But in a light beetle..

[Rasser]

The Porsche 914 2.0 GB type4 engine makes 100hp from the factory (heads have 42-36valves, and different sparkplug angle)
I used heads from that engine when I did my type4 for my bug. I used a Webcam494 (280degree advertised), 9:1CR, 1-1/2" header, 48´s, std. 94mm 914 2.0 pistons+71mm 2.0 crankshaft=1971cc  - Result: 146hp
I only touched the heads lightly, and changed the valves to 8mm, still factory size valves (42-36mm).
Mounted a 30hp CSP fanshroud without doghouse, and put the big doghouse fan inside (lots of air forced over the heads and cylinders) - but no cooler in the fan shroud (big oilcooler beneath the tranny instead).
I never got that thing above 95 degrees, and believe me I tried! Once going to Germany we drove at 150km/h steady for about an hour on the autobahn, and the oiltemperature just stayed at 90-95 degrees. I wasnt brave enough to find the limits of that engine...
I was seriuosly impressed with the cooling capabilities of that engine!

 

On my way to SCC last year this is in Sweden with temp around 20 dgr celcius
Temp staid all day at around 90 Celsius only type 4 cooler(standard place in type 1 doghouse shroud)  no extra cooler.
so maybe those RPM s are good for cooling.

I forgot to mention that I ran 205/70-15 and 3.88x0.89    
So 150km/h is roughly 4000-4100rpm