A winter warmer, Cabrio on the dyno..........

[Jo Clifford]

Video is a couple of years old now, but we thought some of you might enjoy a little winter warmer, with some Methanol flames, also motivation to get all those cars ready for the race season, which for us will start at Easter. 
This year we hope to be running it at this horsepower level, plus some more as we haven't used this much yet 

Enjoy!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eynl5azFFz4

[leec]

What hp did it make?
Lee

[Maplesyrup]

Can't wait to see it run this season

[Jo Clifford]

What hp did it make?
Lee

Just over 890 at the wheels, at 2 bar boost.

Jo

[leec]

Thanks Jo,
That's great numbers

[Rick Meredith]

What's 2 bar?
About 29psi?

[Zach Gomulka]

What's 2 bar?
About 29psi?

29.4

[robkong]

Nice!

[tikimadness]

Imagine what it will do with 35-40 pounds of boost

Michael

[dannyboy]

its about time he put his foot down and did a full pass 
 

[BeetleBug]

Imagine what it will do with 35-40 pounds of boost

Michael

To calculate you need to find the base engine:

890 @ 2 bar = 295 without boost or NA if you like. 295 x 1 bar = 590 x 1 more bar = 885hp. If you then add one more bar of boost you have 1180 WHP at 3 bar or 40 psi. Nice!

It is not 100% accurate since you will have some pressue loss, higher intake temperature at higher boost etc. But it is usually not that far away from the truth.

So it is basically true, a good NA engine will make a super turbo engine. And it also shows you why a V8 is making almost 1000hp as soon as you unpack the turbo from the box. Very overbuilt, very low output and they just scream TURBO!.

Best rgs
BB

[richie]

The best 1/4 mile calculator I have found says the 8.02 equates to 747whp and the 169mph equates to 753whp so both seem close enough to each other to be correct, that's at the current 1950lbs, at the 890whp level it guesstimates 7.57@178.63mph, seems a good number to aim for , realistically you need a higher hp figure as you cant leave the line with all the hp, so I bring it in progressively in each gear which affects the calculation somewhat
At the level Kalle mentioned I think I would need a completely revised car both chassis,gearbox and suspension wise to have any chance of getting it all the way down the track[ calc says 6.89@196.24mph which is pure fantasy ]

Its fun to dream though

Calculator I use if anyone wants to try it is

http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php

cheers Richie

[BeetleBug]

The best 1/4 mile calculator I have found says the 8.02 equates to 747whp and the 169mph equates to 753whp so both seem close enough to each other to be correct, that's at the current 1950lbs, at the 890whp level it guesstimates 7.57@178.63mph, seems a good number to aim for , realistically you need a higher hp figure as you cant leave the line with all the hp, so I bring it in progressively in each gear which affects the calculation somewhat
At the level Kalle mentioned I think I would need a completely revised car both chassis,gearbox and suspension wise to have any chance of getting it all the way down the track[ calc says 6.89@196.24mph which is pure fantasy ]

Its fun to dream though

Calculator I use if anyone wants to try it is

http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php

cheers Richie

Thanks Richie,

Only you and your computer knows the boost levels (and also the actual HP) you used when you managed your 8.02 run. Your speed over the line can usually give you a good HP estimate.

So basically you are saying that you are cruising along on "low boost" and have more in stock if needed  Thats cool! And thats the beauty of having a really good base engine. Someone would also claim that it is a lot easier getting the power down on a dyno compared to a strip. So we could ask ourselves if we should build a big, strong base engine and keep the boost at a decent level or build a less impressive base engine and boost the hell out of it.

Best rgs
BB

[BeetleBug]

Just forgot;

I would also question most ET calculators when it comes to our cars and our ET. Very very few of our cars are able to reach the calculated ET. Then you have the choice to either reduce your HP accordingly until you get the calculated numbers alligned or question the calculation or the dyno results.

-BB-

[richie]

Thanks Richie,

 Your speed over the line can usually give you a good HP estimate.

100% agree, mph is the best tuning tool we have

So basically you are saying that you are cruising along on "low boost" and have more in stock if needed  Thats cool! And thats the beauty of having a really good base engine. Someone would also claim that it is a lot easier getting the power down on a dyno compared to a strip. So we could ask ourselves if we should build a big, strong base engine and keep the boost at a decent level or build a less impressive base engine and boost the hell out of it.

Best rgs
BB

I highlighted what I think is the best route in red

Budget though is really most peoples limitation to what they build

cheers Richie

[spanners]

Gentlemen, One word is the key, drag,  There are about 4 types ganging up to stop us going 200 mph with a Beetle, 200mph  is possible with only 450/500 hp in a purpose built vehicle, at over 100 mph, Roughly half of the total power needed to go 150 is used up just overcoming the drag factor, the problem is, it won't go away and builds with the air speed, in reality, we have lift drag building, skin drag building, rolling risistance building, tyres are a big part of this and have aero drag also, adding to un controlled vortices and eddy forms, ie more drag, F1 is using tiny vanes at the front of the side pod to put the front wheel wakes were they want them, and turn them into a vortex form they can use, I'm not sure where they are placing them, I guess adding a curtain effect along the floor edge, small guide vanes can often be used if regs or silhouette rules ban obvious aero add ons, first time out last year I ran some small fairings ty wrapped to the front torsion arms and practice saw a 8*C drop in oil temperature, the cooler is in the spare wheel well, so what happened?. Well more air got pulled through the cooler for sure, I taped the duct up to compensate, now if I can get the rad to do the same? Well I've gone to much bigger front wing gills and altered the coolant system, looking to reduce coolant temp, thereby smaller rad duct size, -ve drag, well less anyway, small gains make the difference..regards, spanner.

[vwcab]

What hp did it make?
Lee

Just over 890 at the wheels, at 2 bar boost.

Jo

Whow, that are great numbers.But I have a question:
Till how much boost can you go on this engine (as it has now 2 bar)

[jick]

Damn those are some impressive numbers!

 

[Trond Dahl]

So we could ask ourselves if we should build a big, strong base engine and keep the boost at a decent level or build a less impressive base engine and boost the hell out of it.

What do you think sounds more fun!?? :-)

[BeetleBug]

So we could ask ourselves if we should build a big, strong base engine and keep the boost at a decent level or build a less impressive base engine and boost the hell out of it.

What do you think sounds more fun!?? :-)

Me? I would build something that does not need the service or the parts from one of the "high end" US suppliers.


-BB-

[richie]

What hp did it make?
Lee

Just over 890 at the wheels, at 2 bar boost.

Jo

Whow, that are great numbers.But I have a question:
Till how much boost can you go on this engine (as it has now 2 bar)

I figure 3-3.5, but wont know till I try it


cheers Richie

[Basti]

are we talking about 3 bar absolut or 3 bar plus atmospheric?

Cheers,
Basti

[BeetleBug]

are we talking about 3 bar absolut or 3 bar plus atmospheric?

Cheers,
Basti

Since he is already at 3 bar absolute I think we are talking 3 bar (40 psi) + atmo. 

-BB-

[richie]

Yes 3 bar over atmo

cheers Richie

[jamiep_jamiep]

Thats amazing Richie, thanks for sharing.

[vwcab]

Yes 3 bar over atmo

cheers Richie

Hey Richie, what is your guess how much hp it will make at 3bar?
And do you also know how much hp you lose in gears etc....I mean you have now
890hp at the wheels, but how much is that on the engine?
Just curious.........   

[richie]

Yes 3 bar over atmo

cheers Richie

Hey Richie, what is your guess how much hp it will make at 3bar?
And do you also know how much hp you lose in gears etc....I mean you have now
890hp at the wheels, but how much is that on the engine?
Just curious.........   

A VW trans typically uses 15-17% in my estimation so about 1030flywheel hp using 16% average loss =890whp, at 3bar I would guess just short of 1150whp is realistic, above that it would live but be on a very short fuse

cheers Richie

[vwcab]

Impressive numbers!!!!!
Thanks for the info and much fun with it.   

[Dead Dog]

Well this has just had me watching a load of your vids 

Can't wait to see what FOP brings