broken lifter faces

[Peter]

Hello,
I pulled my motor apart after it locked up,
and I found the following: some lifters were damaged like pieces broke off (big ones),
they went into the oil pump, the gear snapped off and the motor locked up on the no 1 main.
So... I know my rocker geometry was not good... I cut my pushrods too short, wanted to change them later... but could it be due to this that the lifters started failing?
like the initial load was too high due to the incorrect geometry? the other not broken lifters look like they started cracking too.


thanks, Peter

[fish]

what brand lifters and pics please

[spanners]

Too wide on valve lash every time.

[kever65]

Did you break in the cam the correct way?
dit you recently check your valve clearance when the engine was on operating temp?
wrong rocker geometry can cause valve float when you are on the low side of spring pressure?

[Peter]

Hi,
break in was done per engle instructions,
valve lash was set to original specs (alu pushrods)
I ll make some pics tonight

[kever65]

Did you install new lifters and new cam when you bild your engine?

[Udo]

This is a problem since hot Vw engines are in the build . For me it is only a problem of the lifter and nothing else

Udo

[PH1303]

I guess this is another case of a flat tappet lifter with a flat lifter face that should have had big radii in stead. Whitout knowing the brand of the lifter i guess it is a Scat lifter. Have seen a lot of those with that problem.

Try to take one of the damaged lifters, and place some kind of "thing" with a straight edge on the face of the lifter, and held it up against the light. If possible show us the result with a picture.


/Peter

[Udo]

This is one big problem too . Most of the lifters do not have the right radius , next to the material and no nitriding. Mine are the only ones i know that have a cnc machined radius with the right diameter

Udo

[richie]

I guess this is another case of a flat tappet lifter with a flat lifter face that should have had big radii in stead. Whitout knowing the brand of the lifter i guess it is a Scat lifter. Have seen a lot of those with that problem.

Try to take one of the damaged lifters, and place some kind of "thing" with a straight edge on the face of the lifter, and held it up against the light. If possible show us the result with a picture.


/Peter

He is not saying they pitted, he is saying they broke into big pieces, I have a good idea hat happened but until Peter confirms what brand lifter it is I am not saying anything negative

cheers Richie

[PH1303]

quote author=Udo link=topic=25236.msg324002#msg324002 date=1448100236]
This is one big problem too . Most of the lifters do not have the right radius , next to the material and no nitriding. Mine are the only ones i know that have a cnc machined radius with the right diameter

Udo
[/quote]

Speaking of the subject, do anyone know if the ordinary performance cam profiles are ground with a small a inclination so it match the radius on the lifter? JPM states that this is done on his cams, but I have never checked the typical Web Cam, Engle etc.

/Peter

[DWL_Puavo]

At least Webcam tells about lobe taper in their glossary: http://www.webcamshafts.com/index_blank.html?pages/cam_glossary.html "The amount of taper can be anywhere from zero to .003" depending on the engine". Not sure however if they grind it to their camshafts even if they tell about the thing in their website.

[Peter]

hello,
here's a picture attached:
the lifters are cb lightweight
cam is a engle.

My cousin uses an fk10 with the same lifters for a few years now, no problems there,
soI thought it would be ok.

KR, Peter

[alex d]

what cam blank was it? SC1 maybe?

[modnrod]

I have what's left of a 30 yr old FK87 (I think!) that has a lobe chamfer, the same in a good used Norris 330S that has it, and both my new Schneider cams have them as well. The Schneiders are ground on a CWC blank if that helps?
I would have thought all cams would be ground with the chamfer?

I've never seen that sort of damage before, would it possibly be the internet rumour of the lifter base being too thick and striking the case?

[henk]

i seen that before.

henk!!!

[leec]

I am running CB lightweight lifters, I chose them as they seemed to be one of the most reliable lifter when I had my motor built (2008)

I have seen another motor with the same lifters fail very early, and also heard a rumour that some copies of CB lightweights had been made and sold as genuine CB products. I am not normally someone to ''spread gossip' as such but something needs to happen as this is ruining motors

Lee

[richie]

i seen that before.

henk!!!

Me to, and I knew what brand it was going to be, but that said I think I have seen failures with every single type including the tool steel lifters and pretty much every brand, cant say why they fail in some builds and not others though

Richie

[richie]

 and also heard a rumour that some copies of CB lightweights had been made and sold as genuine CB products. I am not normally someone to ''spread gossip' as such but something needs to happen as this is ruining motors

Lee

So you don't know if there are actually snide CB lifters but you are posting it on a public forum that they are ruining motors?  Sorry Lee not being mean but unless you actually know of it happening then you are just spreading gossip and that doesn't help anyone. There are enough quality issues as it is

Richie

[leec]

 and also heard a rumour that some copies of CB lightweights had been made and sold as genuine CB products. I am not normally someone to ''spread gossip' as such but something needs to happen as this is ruining motors

Lee

So you don't know if there are actually snide CB lifters but you are posting it on a public forum that they are ruining motors?  Sorry Lee not being mean but unless you actually know of it happening then you are just spreading gossip and that doesn't help anyone. There are enough quality issues as it is

Richie

I don't think you are being mean, I get what you are saying. I am not saying the ones in the above motor are snide, just to clear that up.