Rocker Wear :(

[andy198712]

Hello,

My recent 2k miles 2110 started to make a scraping grinding noise once warm.
I recently fitted some high lift valve covers so assumed something was catching but after looking very closely it was not the issue, I'd also done the valves at the same time but again not the issue. I did this in the dark and cold and wet so was less then impressed I couldn't find any issues!

So today I had it up on the ramps and noticed a a brown paste on one rocker and caps just barely visible, popped off the rockers and saw it was quite badly worn, the rocker looked to have lost part of its hardened layer? So cleaned it up and inspected it then polished but it's still pitted.

Upon refitting I redid the clearance ect and it's stopped the noise but I'll need to keep and a close eye on that and more then likely get some new rockers, they certainly won't be bug pack! The amount of hours I've spent getting these right is silly! They aren't machined square, barely turned when I got them and the screws are a loose fit....

Anyone else had this issue? Will add a pic.

I was looking at the CB and scat items, leaning towards the CB ones though,any input?

Oh I have fairly light springs too, and a 86b cam.

Cheers

Andy

[andy198712]

I can feel a wear ridge too it gets used pretty much daily too, some times every other day.
Good level of oil getting up there too via Hoover mods

[56BLITZ]

I was looking at the CB and scat items, leaning towards the CB ones though,any input?

looks like C.B is out of stock on their 1.4 ratio rocker set.

[andy198712]

I was looking at the CB and scat items, leaning towards the CB ones though,any input?

looks like C.B is out of stock on their 1.4 ratio rocker set.

Normally order from Richie these days so would depend if he has any in at the mo, shipping items from the states is too costly in general and a lot easier through Richie as he's in the UK which is where I saw the cb's and scats thus those were the two I was considering. But the CB looks like more of a complete kit?

Although I did see they reworked them for 2015? .....

[richie]

I was looking at the CB and scat items, leaning towards the CB ones though,any input?

looks like C.B is out of stock on their 1.4 ratio rocker set.

Normally order from Richie these days so would depend if he has any in at the mo, shipping items from the states is too costly in general and a lot easier through Richie as he's in the UK which is where I saw the cb's and scats thus those were the two I was considering. But the CB looks like more of a complete kit?

Although I did see they reworked them for 2015? .....

Andy that's sucks, I have Scat AND CB in stock, prefer the Scat myself but cant really find a reason, just me

cheers Richie

[Jim Ratto]

I've had same Scat 1.4 rockers in my motor(s) since 1991, unless I was running a cam which required 1.1:1 or 1.25:1. They were along for the ride for one catastrophic cam failure. The contact area of rocker pads show witness marks but no pitting, shearing etc.

I have a set of the rockers I think you mentioned, and once I received them and looked them over, wasn't impressed. They were basically impossible to setup with lash caps and have geometry set correctly. The adjusting screws felt coarse in the rocker threads. Overall, seem to be made to a price, and not to live.

I have only installed, and run Scat forged rockers in last 25 years. I do run CB lash caps.

[Sarge]

    ...."Good level of oil getting up there too via Hoover mods"

Just looking at your picture, to me, says the opposite.  The rocker shaft looks blue and the
rocker looks black; too hot.  You might want to try running your motor a bit with the cover
off so you can see if oil is present for yourself.  Good luck!

[andy198712]

    ...."Good level of oil getting up there too via Hoover mods"

Just looking at your picture, to me, says the opposite.  The rocker shaft looks blue and the
rocker looks black; too hot.  You might want to try running your motor a bit with the cover
off so you can see if oil is present for yourself.  Good luck!

The picture isn't ideal, that bluey colouring is a DFL coating I applied, not heat marks as it looks.
I did run it with the cover off and even at low idle speed of about 700rpm cold it was spitting lots of oil at me 

[andy198712]

I've had same Scat 1.4 rockers in my motor(s) since 1991, unless I was running a cam which required 1.1:1 or 1.25:1. They were along for the ride for one catastrophic cam failure. The contact area of rocker pads show witness marks but no pitting, shearing etc.

I have a set of the rockers I think you mentioned, and once I received them and looked them over, wasn't impressed. They were basically impossible to setup with lash caps and have geometry set correctly. The adjusting screws felt coarse in the rocker threads. Overall, seem to be made to a price, and not to live.

I have only installed, and run Scat forged rockers in last 25 years. I do run CB lash caps.

Thanks for the input
They were a nightmare to setup, nothing was machined square! And just as you say, screws felt course and I scrubbed them for ages and the bore, thinking it was grit or something,,.. On the plus side they came out at 4.1:1 ratio so not bad and my geo was good.
Hopefully new rockers will give similar geo when mocked up if they're the same ratio or very close too!

[andy198712]

I was looking at the CB and scat items, leaning towards the CB ones though,any input?

looks like C.B is out of stock on their 1.4 ratio rocker set.

Normally order from Richie these days so would depend if he has any in at the mo, shipping items from the states is too costly in general and a lot easier through Richie as he's in the UK which is where I saw the cb's and scats thus those were the two I was considering. But the CB looks like more of a complete kit?

Although I did see they reworked them for 2015? .....

Andy that's sucks, I have Scat AND CB in stock, prefer the Scat myself but cant really find a reason, just me

cheers Richie

Hi bud,
Had seen a post of yours prazing the Scats, I'll drop you a PM

There probably the lowest budget bit in the engine if that makes sense so sort of the weakest link I guess, the rest should be ok after!

[56BLITZ]

I've had same Scat 1.4 rockers in my motor(s) since 1991 . . .
I have only installed, and run Scat forged rockers in last 25 years. I do run CB lash caps.

Good to hear Jim!
I just installed a set in my latest build, but I've run it for only a few minutes so far.
I did have to buy some additional Scat shims (not enough of the thinner sizes to get the side play right) and the lash caps did fit somewhat loose. Is that why you go with C.B. Performance lash caps?

[Jim Ratto]

That's one reason yes, but also I had a Scat lash cap wear through, years years years ago. Looked like a donut.
CB fit tight, like Gene Berg. I've used theirs too. Bugpack had nice lash caps that were avail in different height, they were great for dialing in where you wanted your adjusting screw/how you wanted geometry. But they fit loose.

[andy198712]

Gone for the Scats, will be nice to get rid of the BP items

[56BLITZ]

FWIW . . . I used the Scat lash caps . . . installed them with a little bit of red Loc-Tite because they did not fit real tight . . . I will keep an eye on them. 
Thanks for the heads-up Jim!

[Donny B.]

I've only used Gene Berg lash caps.  If they are loose you risk the valve and the rocker because it induces more wear.  JMO
Of course I use Berg rockers as well (swedish forgings) nice...

[Felix/DFL]

Hi,

good dicision to go with the Scat rockers. You really need some extra shims as the SCAT only come with one size shim which will make it impossible to set axial play right.
But your old BP shims will 90% fit.
I have run the CB one`s for some years and they failed... Maybe now they have overworked them?
They even looked not correct when I unpacked them, but I had no others so I ran them... The valve tips were like there were a layer on it which already cracked at 2-3 small spots...
It tried to file them with a little triangle file lately to check the hardness and I could cut easily, really easily... Don`t know what they did to the tips but it was not correct hardened it was only on the surface not in the deep... Scat one`s did not fail in the file cut test!

As said I now use the scat one`s with Ahnendorp/BAS german made valve caps. Those are really nitraded and not??? what ever...
I polished the contact faces with 2000 wet grid and installed them with cam grease for a good break in. No problem so far. I even did some oiling mods to squirt oil up there. Don`t know if it really works, I have in my mind for long to make a visible cover. But that`s always at the end of the "to do" list
If you do the mods above you need to have the HVX mods to get enough oil up there...
Many rocker wear I have seen is always on cyl. 1/2 as the oiling is not that good as an oil throw feeded 3/4 side.

Have fun,
Felix/DFL  

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[andy198712]

Cheers Felix,

It was the number 1 inlet that went as it happens, but i'm almost thinking it might have been partly due to a rust spot maybe? odd when its always oily up there but who knows! but i did see a brown like paste up there.... when i get these new scat ones fitted i'll investigate the broken one and pass on the good ones to anyone for spares i think.

when i've popped the cover off and started it up to double check everything on this engine, its been spitting oil nicely (only for a very short run) i guess if you really wanted you could try it warm and give it a rev, very messy though! and you'd loose a fair bit of oil i reckon.

i've done the hoover mods although not the grooved shafts (think thats for rockers that feed the valve with oil EG stock and porsche style feet) . interesting grooves in your rocker, like the mods you can do to con rods sort of... i'd be tempted to run the groove round the other way so you get more oil in the stressed area(if that makes sense), with hoover mods though i think you get plenty of flow up there, from comparing watching the engine running with the cover off (at idle) between my old 1200 without the hoover mods and the new engine with)
i'll probably be leaving these  new Scats standard though.

Richie has me sorted with extra shims already same did shafts as the BP anyways

looking forward to being able to get a good side clearance on the rockers and a nice built item.  

[fish]

I always polish valve tips, lash caps, rocker pads, rocker shafts, etc. another way of getting oil spray is to drill 1mm hole in the pushrods

[andy198712]

I always polish valve tips, lash caps, rocker pads, rocker shafts, etc. another way of getting oil spray is to drill 1mm hole in the pushrods

i'll get the 2000 grit out

arrived today so will get them fitted this week hopefully and shimmed up

[andy198712]

Didn't polish in the end, just throughly cleaned and fitted up, played with the side play a bit and got about half good but other half a bit larger then ideal so will sand down some shims I got to get it ideal or do the lazy thing and buy some thin shim washers which is looks good
There a much nicer unit then the bug packs, finished nicer and better quality casting and machining from my mk1 eye ball! The valve train seems quieter too
One thing I'm going to keep an eye on is that the 3&4 side seemed to be more oily then 1&2 side but it might have just been me, will keep an eye on it and if needed drill a small hole in a couple of the push rods that side, seems more oil splash up there would be a good thing with little down sides?

I did spend 5 hrs doing it! But took my time and double checked all ect

[Ron Greiner]

Did you have lash caps on the valves?? if you don't use lash caps that will happen

[Martin S.]

The very first pic shows the lash cap.

[andy198712]

Yeah

All groovy with the new scats though!