Tell me about seats please

[StewRat]

With so much else to do on the car, a seat shouldn't really be top of the list ...

... except that I *need* to be able to sit in it and go vroom vroom from time to time to remind me what it's all about.

No frills, budget driven, drag only build.

Suggestions for a seat?

Currently I'm watching ebay for cheap bucket/racing seats but it's slim pickings as most of them are collection only.

Also I need to understand if there are any regulations governing my choice. While my first outings will be to my local drag strip at Crail (http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/rules.php?ID=2) that isn't very demanding on rules, I'd aspire to travelling south for other meets on occasion too, so I need to fit something that isn't going to cause problems later. I've looked at the MSA yearbook and it doesn't seem very prescriptive other than maybe on the forces the fixings will withstand? Not sure how that is scrutineered.

I should factor in that (my wife and I) would like to mitigate the chances of dying if the car does multiple diagonal rollovers.

Just to set the scene, and at the risk of offending anyone, can I find a 50 GBP seat I want to sit in?

[BeetleBug]

Here in the Nordics we have an EXCELLENT race channel/web tv broadcast called "Motorsoffan" http://nitroz.se/  Click "webb tv"

Episode #163 is about safety and you have some of the best in that field discussing seats and the conclusion is:

A proper seat should at least cost 10 000 SEK. (thats approx $1200) and should always be custom made for you. Yes you can buy nice seats from Kirkey and they mention them too. Always use a H.A.N.S and always make sure your seat have proper head and shoulder support. And always have someone to tighten your harness. You can never tighten it properly by yourselves.

It is Swedish but #163 is well worth seeing no matter what! At least do a fast forward to 14:00 and look at the slow motion of Woken rollilng at approx 100mph. Notice his head.

A seat for a drag race driver should look something like this: https://www.kirkeyracing.com/product/10/45500EXTKIT/SEAT-KIT-ALUMINUM-16-DELUXE-18-LAYBACK-CONTAINMENT-SEAT-BLACK-COVER and the H.A.N.S will together with the head braces keep your head where it should be when you get knocked out in the first hit and start to roll.

-BB-

[spanners]

this says it all^^^^^^^^every time, THE most important item you will ever buy, and THE first thing on which people will cut back on, only buy new, try many and get one that fits and supports, only buy seats with side mounting points, 2 reasons, a good range of mounting plates are available, and the techies love them as its easy to check the fixing bolts integrity. Check YouTube for drivers falling out of drag cars, plus helmets falling off in rolls, how that can happen I can't fathom, but it shows how plain lax and stupid humans can be regarding safety.

[Neil Davies]

I used a Corbeau Forza seat which was FIA homologated at the time. I chose the steel frame seat rather than a composite one because i didn't like the idea of a seat breaking in an accident - I'd much rather it bend than break and leave jagged bits of fibreglass sticking out! The Kirkey seats are good, feel very secure, but you will need to fabricate a bracket to fix the seat back to the shoulder bar in the cage - it used to have one but didn't fit my Corbeau so I cut it off!

[Fiatdude]

I've ran Kirkey seats (which are very nice) , but I just put in a Sparco so that my ribs won't hurt for a month the next time I take the Ghia back out for some cone smashing.

BUT REMEMBER -- your seat is as good as it's mounts -- spend some time making sure they are bullet proof for the seat AND the safety belts ((Tied into the cage!!!!))

I remember the first time I launched the Fiat under boost and I was using the stock seats and the frame rail partially ripped from the pan (attached similar to the way  VW rails are)... that got my attention... (my belts save the seat ((and me)) from coming loose all the way)

Or ask Paul Logan about when he rolled his bug, he had a five point harness and was unhurt in the multiple roll over, but the crouch strap was bolted to the floor -- and when the pan warped and bent outward it really cinched up that strap, A LOT -- we can laugh about it now, but Paul swears he can still feel the pain........ 





Here's a $12000 Butler from a NASCAR road race car -- it even has the leg and head restraints in place

[StewRat]

Thanks for all that sobering feedback and guidance.

Sounds like my budget now needs to be 6000GBP + seat.

(no longer looking to snipe ebay bargain bucket seats)

[Jeff68]

This is a great thread and something I have been thinking about.  How about seats for let's say a mid / high 12 second car that is driven on the street - highway and strip? I want to upgrade the seats in my car and have been thinking about this as well. Thanks for posting this.

[BeetleBug]

Guys,

You will find people out there driving into the 10`s with original low back seats and can most probably do so legally according to their class rules. I`m driving 10`s with Poly seats. That is not what this thread is about and that is not what the guys in the movie talk about either. It is what CAN happen and how you best can make sure you do not hurt yourself. So yes, you can choose to continue relying on having luck like the guy that Fiatdude mention or you can improve you odds. If you are able to stay conscious then you are able to tension your muscles and brace for the next hit. If not, chances are that if your head and neck is not supported you can bump into your B post or the roll cage "scull crusher bar" which is the name that one of the guys in the video use to describe the B post hoop.

I`m replacing my seat this winter.

-BB-

[Trond Dahl]

After putting a turbo in my car I upgraded the roll cage and changed the seats. I even tried crashing... Not recommended. Looking at the in car video it is clear I tightened the belt good. It is "just" a street car and the safety was not optimal, but it could also have been worse. I see sooooo many cars driving 12s with low seats... I will never point any fingers as that would be throwing stone in a glass house, but It is very important to have people thinking/focusing on the topic of smart safety.
Driving as fast as we do whether it is turbo or not, we can always be smarter.
This thread is, not only from a racing point of view, one of the more important ones we have here on The Lounge for sure. Keep in mind how fast we drive on highways also...

Thank you!

[spanners]

How tenuous the link to life is, humans tend to dismissive of many safety facts, you need to have a hands on experience very often, look and learn, We had two fatals at our local circuit in the '90s, not a high speed track, both were poor seat engineering related, one vehicle concerned was a 2CV, don't suppose it could muster 80 at the point it hit, but the seat broke loose from its base, I saw it and inspected the car. I can't and won't judge, I just asked myself why? and took note, then I lost a friend who's car was stationary, he got hit in the door, side impact seat wings would have saved him, they are still not mandatory???, but Hans is for circuit racing, so you can't account for danger, it come out of the blue, wham. Lights out, be safe but never over confident, I play the numbers game in everything I do, can you be too safe? Yes you can, modern cars have so many driver distractions that the driving standard is generally poor, the driver has less input because the car is so easy to drive, centre lane, cruise control on, lane departure on, go to sleep or read the paper and stuff anyone driving properly.
 I believe humans will always go to the edge and look over, look how safe F1 is now compared to the fireball days of old, there is now no driver respect for their survival because it's safe, comparatively, the danger now is for others outside the car, so they make the track safer, the hard furniture is protected and spectators safer by moving them into the next county, and so it goes on, next year with bigger slicks and wings they will realise they're too fast again, now what? Watch from televised bunkers?  A little danger can be a good thing sometimes, it teaches respect.

[Jeff68]

Thanks Spanners,  Trond. and Beetlebug!  I'm trying to be as safe as possible, that's my goal in me asking about safer / proper seats. I'm as guilty as many of us are...all we can think about is building a hi-horsepower engine and the overall safety of the driver isn't immediately thought of....As cool as it is to make these cars accelerate hard and sustain high speeds we don't think about "What if something happens or goes wrong?" These cars were never designed to do what the engines we put in them make them capable of So this is why I'm asking about seats. I too am trying to be as safe as I can... To me our cars are like 4 wheel motorcycles and when I'm driving in dense traffic I'm very careful as a beetle is very light and would not fare well (as well as me and my passenger) with a collision with an SUV or big truck.

On the highways where I live (Florida) I see some crazy stuff.....I see fully loaded dump trucks, tractor trailers, landscape trucks, ect going down the highway at 80 mph and following other passenger cars very close. I sometimes wonder what would happen if any of these trucks had to make an emergency stop?.......I have seen what happens and it's devastating to say the least..

Sorry for getting off topic, but I know good seats and safety equipment should be part of part of building our cars. Thanks for the information guys!

[Jesse Wens]

In 1988 DAF participated in the dakar with a purpusebuild vehicle. the turbotwin.... aluminum chassis with 2 turbodiesel truck engines. capable of more then 200 km/hour...  The thing was puposebuild and should have been supersafe but when it crashed at 200 km/hour the navidator seat left its mounts and killed the navigator...  So even in a purposebuild vehicle with a good seat...

https://youtu.be/ilghtX-tfAA

[modnrod]

If you are able to stay conscious then you are able to tension your muscles and brace for the next hit. If not, chances are that if your head and neck is not supported you can bump into your B post or the roll cage "scull crusher bar" which is the name that one of the guys in the video use to describe the B post hoop.

That pillar should be padded big time always anyway.
Getting knocked out can actually increase your chances of surviving serious damage sometimes, if the hit is a big one you WILL NOT be able to hold your head/helmet/neck anyway, and fighting the forces causes more damage. 5G - 10G into a tree will do that (or a rolling spin along a smooth concrete wall)