How low might I go ...

[StewRat]

This is another one of those wildly premature threads as my car is very much a work in progress, but people (family, colleagues etc) do keep asking me how fast it will go, and I've just been looking at the times at the local (Crail) drag strip for scoobies etc in the 15, 14, 13s so I do wonder how I might stand up to them come the day.

Probably for the moment ignoring driver inexperience, the car will be:

2276cc
94 x 82mm
lightened flywheel, balanced assembly
dual 40 DRLAs on DIY ported 044 heads (40 x 35 valves) and an extractor exhaust with stinger
Engle W130 cam
stripped out shell for race only
stock swing axle box

Could I aspire to get into the 12s with that? With driver practice.
If not, what would be holding me back and should I look at next? Might be obvious after first launch but useful to know if it is something I could build in now.

Appreciate your thoughts.
 

[Edit] I know Neil and others might say gearbox but I dont understand gearboxes so my fingers will be in my ears going lalalalalalalal until the external noise becomes deafening

[dannyboy]

lots of seat time and lots of fun is the main thing .aim for 12s na shouldn't be to hard box will shit itself but you might get lucky for a good few outings? just have fun with your mates at the track and the times will drop 

[Nico86]

And don't forget http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,5293.0.html (:

[StewRat]

And don't forget http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,5293.0.html (:

Totally got that.

Shell is already fairly weight-conscious, with paneled rear end, drilled out door frames, passenger door handle etc, and I'm happy to continue that.

Lexan front windows already,plan is to make lexan all round.

Nothing being added that isnt essential, and pillar drill is top of list for my new workshop kit

[dth]

I ran mid 12,s at crail last year with a high spec 2276 , problem at Crail is no traction , not a problem for a 4wd scooby or evo,
12,s in a beetle is probably fast enough up there anyway , i span out years ago doing an 11 second run , wasnt fun

[StewRat]

I ran mid 12,s at crail last year with a high spec 2276 , problem at Crail is no traction , not a problem for a 4wd scooby or evo,
12,s in a beetle is probably fast enough up there anyway , i span out years ago doing an 11 second run , wasnt fun

You mean there's no real layer of rubber on the strip?

Anyway - Kewl

Plan A is 12s at Crail then with a really shitty looking 45 yr old beetle

I'd love to say I'll do that this year but I may have to give up my day job for that to make enough spare time for that to happen ( that is an option).

[StewRat]

lots of seat time and lots of fun is the main thing .aim for 12s na shouldn't be to hard box will shit itself but you might get lucky for a good few outings? just have fun with your mates at the track and the times will drop 

Thanks for the vote of confidence and the reminder it is all about the fun

I know I should be probably buying your gearbox but need to keep the budget under control and get through the first few passes at least as-is.

[Zach Gomulka]

Small carbs, stock gearbox, mild heads... High 13's at best, IMO.

[modnrod]

Small carbs, stock gearbox, mild heads... High 13's at best, IMO.

+1.
BUT.......
Hi-13s in a Beetle is FAST man!  These things just jump, makes it seem much faster than it is. I've had guys with 12sec V8 dinosaurs climb into a mid-14s VW before, and at the hit in 1st and into 2nd they're grabbing the rail and bursting out laughing!
Good fun. You'll have a great time.
 

[dth]

Absolutely , 13,s in a beetle on a sketchy track like Crail is fast , once you run a good number there none of the
other cars will line up with you , you end up running on your own all day , we,ll just have to make sure there is
a few VW,s there , give us a shout if your heading up

[BeetleBug]

This is all about maths. Let me know your and your cars weight and we can take it from there. With those engine specs were talking 120 to 145 hp. You are looking on a low 15 to high 14 unless your beetle is really light and you are not the typical US sized man 

Remember it is all about fun! The ET is what it will be and part of the fun is to get the car to match the theory (math).

Good luck!

Best rgs
-BB-

[Iryanu]

This is all about maths. Let me know your and your cars weight and we can take it from there. With those engine specs were talking 120 to 145 hp. You are looking on a low 15 to high 14 unless your beetle is really light and you are not the typical US sized man 

Remember it is all about fun! The ET is what it will be and part of the fun is to get the car to match the theory (math).

Good luck!

Best rgs
-BB-

I used to input bug quarter times in to an excel sheet which throws out a graph. I've no idea if it is actually anywhere near accurate. The more figures I can put in, the more accurate it will become I guess. Might start updating it again! I also have a huuuuuge file of pretty much every car ever mades power to weight ratios and wheel weights and loads of other crap. Am I sick in the head? The graph looks to be about spot on with your 120-145 and the time you stated. It's all maths! Backed up with my real world data gathering. LOL. Mock me at your peril! I do get outside sometimes.... 

[BeetleBug]

You will find plenty of online calculators that works but all of them are using automatic gear as a default. I'm using the Moroso speed ruler and it has proven to be very accurate.

-BB-

[Iryanu]

I like my graph as it's real world timing slips and hp results. 

[dannyboy]

i ran 12.2 with 159 hp if that helps and my car weighed 690kg and i was 70 kg

[Iryanu]

i ran 12.2 with 159 hp if that helps and my car weighed 690kg and i was 70 kg

Very effective use of power there. It's below the curve. 

[BeetleBug]

159 at the wheels?

[dannyboy]

no it was flywheel, it was funny as the guys at dyno gave me free dyno time after it as they couldn't believe it ran the times with small hp....

[BeetleBug]

My ruler says it can't be done and you are the first person that have a car combo where the math does not add up. 159 WHP aligns with 12.75 and 105.7 mph in with 1675lbs combo. If I look at it the other way around it says that you have 180.5 WHP to achieve 12.22. What was your MPH?

The stars must have been aligned, the wind must have been blowing in the right direction and your mom must have prepared your favorite meal that was waiting for you that day.

I'm really impressed!

-BB-

[caddy]

take a look at our club website http://luftkuhler.com .
we run on an old airfield here in northern Ireland .
 I have the et's shown for all our cars and if there is a dyno number they were done by me on the same rollers.
 also a rough engine spec is included with the cars.

[dannyboy]

I'll try to find some info it was a few years ago now. It should be on my build thread I'm sure it went 12.2 .it had belt on as well =-O

[dannyboy]

if you have a look at page 2 of lil lizzy thread there is a discussion about this exact topic 

[Tufty65]

it's all good looking at a graph and thinking that's what time you're going to get but in reality we all know it's a lot harder to actually achieve that time!
I can remember trying for a sub 18 sec in my bus for the first time about 10 years ago, I'd borrowed a 2110 motor I thought it would be easy, I was surprised to only get 21 sec 1/4!
It's taken me lots of practice time to get where I am today and I know my bus has more to come but it's down to me to achieve it.

[Neil Davies]

I supect that my old car would be about right - 187 fwhp, 1649 lbs with me in it, 12.09 @ 109.77 - Kalle, how do those numbers look to you?

[dannyboy]

it ran 12.0 with the belt off 

[BeetleBug]

I supect that my old car would be about right - 187 fwhp, 1649 lbs with me in it, 12.09 @ 109.77 - Kalle, how do those numbers look to you?

You are spot on: my ruler say 12.01 - 113mph using your HP. If I turn it around and use your ET and/or MPH to find the HP it says 176Whp to manage 110mph. And 185 whp looking at your ET and weight.

You are close to the perfect run for your race car. Congrats on that!

-BB-

[StewRat]

That's all extremely interesting stuff. Thanks.

My "plan A is 12s at Crail" was ill-considered.

Plan A is to actually *get* to Crail wit a working car, then get down the track at almost any speed, then to keep getting faster.

Without weights and HP I wont even be able to guess what the car might be capable of without me as the limiting factor, so its foolish to set unrealistic goals (or at least to admit them in public )

Glad I asked the question tho'

Stewart

[dth]

Best way to think , just getting a car to the track is an achievement , run it , have some fun.

[stretch]

Best way to think , just getting a car to the track is an achievement , run it , have some fun.

I agree with Donald.  Just enjoy yourself.   

[henk]

Anybody who ever used one off those app's on a smartphone to see how fast your car is on the 1/4 mile?
Don't know how accurate this is so maybe there is somebody who compared it all ready to his real timeslip?

Henk!!!