real world torque/powerband, pump gas, 4.37:1, stock 3rd-4th

[Jim Ratto]

This might seem rambling but the jist of this post is asking those that have run something similar to share real experiences.

Looking for powerband to have ample passing torque in the 3200-43-4500 rpm with 25.5" diameter rear tire, 4:37:1, 0.89 4th (this translates to about 62-85mph in 4th)
Engine size is 2165cc
Heads are Berg 870 44mm x 37.5, 53cc chambers
Tall manifolds matched from top flange to head, 48 IDA's
Header pipe is 1.65" (42mm)
Aiming for 9.0-9.4:1

While top end HP isn't the objective, I would like this engine to have a point in rev range where intake resonance/exhaust and overlap "turn on" preferably somewhere under 3800 but pull hard to 6500 without drama.

Can be 1.4 or 1.25 pad/lash-cap style rockers

-Web Cam 86B w/ 1.4
-Norris 408S w/1.25
-Engle W125 w/1.25


Anyone used the Norris in a large cc street engine with similar heads? I've talked to guys that have run 407S and they all rave about it in 2.0L or under street cars.

[Joel Mohr]

86 B all the way...

[Donny B.]

Everyone I talk with says 86B and I have used one, but for me it was the K8 that gave me the best seat of the pants feel.  I have a 2165 with Berg 865 heads and just 40mm & 37.5mm valves.  Running Berg 1.4 rockers.  I really didn't care for the 86B, but that's just me...

[Jim Ratto]

86 B all the way...

what have you found as far as driving characteristics on street/highway? I've never used the 86B

[modnrod]

Jim do you know Rick M?

Ask him about his FK-65. Might be a little small for your rev needs, but will clue you in to where to look.

[Jim Ratto]

I was involved with a 1700 with that cam, and it was somewhat disappointing.  
I'm only looking for feedback on 408S Norris or Web 86B. I've run the W125 happily many times.

[Joel Mohr]

In MY experience, the 86 B and the K8 are pretty close performance wise....I had a 2275 with Clyde Berg "Big Ovals" and at one time or another, both cams....the 86B did seem to come on sooner...but for sheer driving pleasure all around, I would use a WEB 122...506 x 288. It made 90% of the same power, but came on sooner, about 3,000...and it's a stock rocker grind....

[Jim Ratto]

In MY experience, the 86 B and the K8 are pretty close performance wise....I had a 2275 with Clyde Berg "Big Ovals" and at one time or another, both cams....the 86B did seem to come on sooner...but for sheer driving pleasure all around, I would use a WEB 122...506 x 288. It made 90% of the same power, but came on sooner, about 3,000...and it's a stock rocker grind....

Thanks

You Too Donny

[fish]

V26/GB309, 1.4:1

[nicolas]

V26/GB309, 1.4:1

i know Jim had one as i bought it off him, but please let us know how it performs and what it compares to. seems to be a cam that Berg used, but with all my searches, this cam was more used that credit is given to it now. so please share.

as my own input; an FK8 is so nice, both in lower rpms as all out. i can't compare to a 86B, but like stated it should be comparable maybe the webcam has a slightly wider rpm range. as for me in my 2007 i relly like the FK44. i think if you are able to look after your engine, the FK 4- series are not that bad, bushed bores will help (i did mine, because they needed it prior to running this cam), the FK 44 is the 'mildest' of them comparing lift to open degrees. off idle performance up to 6000. Didn't you use a FK45 yourself Jim? 

[Jim Ratto]

V26/GB309, 1.4:1

i know Jim had one as i bought it off him, but please let us know how it performs and what it compares to. seems to be a cam that Berg used, but with all my searches, this cam was more used that credit is given to it now. so please share.

as my own input; an FK8 is so nice, both in lower rpms as all out. i can't compare to a 86B, but like stated it should be comparable maybe the webcam has a slightly wider rpm range. as for me in my 2007 i relly like the FK44. i think if you are able to look after your engine, the FK 4- series are not that bad, bushed bores will help (i did mine, because they needed it prior to running this cam), the FK 44 is the 'mildest' of them comparing lift to open degrees. off idle performance up to 6000. Didn't you use a FK45 yourself Jim? 

Yes I ran an FK45 with different heads, they were the same sideways-D port VW heads I ran in the late 90's on my old 2276. The FK45 was a weird cam. If you gave the engine throttle under 4000 it just made a lot of noise, and made a strange reverberation noise up the intake until 4000 then it would begin to work. Not what I want at all.

Trying to find a powerband similar to one that came from W125 in 94 x 74, where the engine would come on song, in 4th gear, around 3500 rpm and was extremely strong in that rev range and up. Instead of the engine lazily taking throttle and never finding that "sweet spot" it was locked, loaded and ready at just a nudge of throttle.

[leec]

Jim,
Did you run the 125 with ratio rockers in your 2165cc?
Lee

[nicolas]

i run the FK44 with small heads 40X35 non welded (los bandidos massaged by steves vw) and with 1.25's. all is quite 'compact' to have the power on tap really. it is quicker in response then the FK8 in my 2276. i also use a 4.12 gearbox in a type3, so it all takes power to get movin'   but it does it nicely. it isn't a strip motor by far, but it is a good spirited driver with a huge fun factor  
i weighed the option of an W125 and a V26, but somehow wanted to try this one out in the end.

[Felix/DFL]

+1 for web 86b
I really like how it performs.
Was using the fk10 before but were not that happy with it as you need to get over 4000, then it pulls really hard and heaven is open   ... had much fun but not that good for a regular driven car.
Both cams got me into the 13's in my notch with 2278ccm, 205/65.
The fk8 and 86b are very simillar, i went for the webcam cause i think they got a more modern profile.

I lately advanced the 86b 2° cause i went for a 3,88 r&p, that drop the useable revs a little bit more down the rpm range with 40 vents@ida. Could  drive around in 4th with gentle throttle, good torque at the low revs.
Greetings

[fish]

The V26 replaced my K10 due to harmonics. It is an all out street cam, has a very broad power curve and smooth delivery. Could be a good cam with GB870, however those heads may be lazy under 4K.

[Fiatdude]

Jim -- I've got a split grind Web 86B/86C that I loved setting on the shelf if you'd like to try it -- --- I switched over to a Pauter cam for more HP with the turbo or I'd still have be running it....

I'm just over in Yucaipa