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Author Topic: 1776cc or 1968cc???  (Read 11988 times)
ChristianDKT
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« on: September 11, 2016, 20:16:33 pm »

I got some parts and i want to build engine for a bug, for street use (daily/weekend/trip/fun).
So I'm looking for suggestions.

Parts list:

69mm stock vw crank, 8 dowellt with lightened flywheel (balanced)
90,5mm mahle "A" pistons
stock rods
stock reworked 35,5 x 32 heads, ported and matched for 40mm manifolds
40 dell o'rto's
scat C45 cam
1:1,25 rockers

or

74mm AA c/w crank with lightened Scat flywheel (balanced)
92mm AA Perf  "B" pistons thick-walls
5,4" rods
44 idf's
web 86a
1:1,4 scat rockers
no heads allredy..

AS21 Injection Case (no fuel pump mount) bored for 90,5/92mm, full flow.

If you were gonna build from this list, what would you choose and what would you ad?
Thanks
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2016, 23:58:29 pm »

IMO, the cam is a little bit too big for the 1776. A C35 (or similar) grind would be better suited.

I like the 1968 combo. CB's new 40x35.5 Panchito's would work great on it. I would use 5.325" rods to keep the engine stock width. And the 40mm Dells from the 1776 Wink
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ChristianDKT
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2016, 08:53:54 am »

92 B pistons will work with 5,325" rods?

With cam will you choose??
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2016, 15:47:55 pm »

92 B pistons will work with 5,325" rods?

With cam will you choose??

Ohh, I did not notice the 92's were B's. You'll need a longer stroke or 5.5" rods to make those work nicely. 'A' pistons work great on a 74mm stroke with 5.325's. 5.4's will also work with the 74, the engine will just be about .200"/5mm wider overall.

Do you have all of these parts now?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 16:52:08 pm by Zach Gomulka » Logged

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ChristianDKT
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2016, 21:33:44 pm »

yes, i got these parts now.

i built a few engines the last few years, but not for me... my last engine in my callooker was a 1835 with stock mild portet heads, fully balanced, german schleicher cam, 40 idf's, 41 merged header, 1:1,25 rockers. put out 105hp!! was a nice engine for the streets and also for trips. but now i want a bigger one also for street with around 120/130 hp.
when i got a plan for my engine, i'll sell the rest of the parts!

i also got a 84mm chevy crank with 5.4" rods, it s also a opinion... so i can use the 92 B pistons and the web 86a... 2234cc... little bit unusual!?!?!

too much parts Undecided
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2016, 00:53:23 am »

The 2334 isn't unusual at all. Since you have the parts and experience, I see no reason not to build it. You will go well past your 120-130hp goal though Grin

With the leftover parts I would put the 90.5's with the 74 crank for 1904cc. Panchito heads and 40mm Dell's. Use the C45 cam.
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Torben Alstrup
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2016, 18:16:08 pm »

Dont use the 86a on so large displacement. It is a decent cam for engines in the 1800 - 2100 range, no more.
If it has to be with stock rockers, use the Web 121/125 on 108 LC.  - Or use the C45 with 1,25 or 1,3 rockers. In a good set up it could pull 150-160hp easy and be a grocery getter still.

T
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ChristianDKT
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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2016, 10:52:11 am »

@ Torben... 150-160hp with the 92x84, C45, 1:1,25 rockers, 44 idf's... which heads should i take?? or do you mean an other setup ??

I like the "smaller" stroker engines, they are more oldschool and "porschely"! I prefer to built an engine with the 74 stroke. so whats the best i can get out of these parts??? i also think about to sell some parts an buy new heads, cam, rods, pistons,... for a nice 74mm stroker.
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2016, 16:51:44 pm »

@ Torben... 150-160hp with the 92x84, C45, 1:1,25 rockers, 44 idf's... which heads should i take?? or do you mean an other setup ??

I like the "smaller" stroker engines, they are more oldschool and "porschely"! I prefer to built an engine with the 74 stroke. so whats the best i can get out of these parts??? i also think about to sell some parts an buy new heads, cam, rods, pistons,... for a nice 74mm stroker.

I like the thick cylinder wall 92 x 74 setup. For a street engine with a "fun" power band I would stay conservative on intake port and valve diameter, as well as intake runner porting, use a 35.5mm exhaust and have the exhaust ported to about 75-85% of header pipe diam. And for cam I'd run Engle W125 or if you have to use 1.4 ratio rockers, something like K8 Engle or Web 86B
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Joel Mohr
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2016, 17:39:50 pm »

I think we can all agree the HP is in the heads...I just did a 1915 with Wedge ports for a customer that made 165HP with 48 IDFs...Web 122 on 108c... Big ports don't need to be feared if the cam is right and the compression is high enough to sustain a decent vacuum signal from idle up. Oh, and it was Hemi cut with 9.8 to 1...purrs like a kitten and very smooth all the way to 7,000....He has since put it in his 1300# drag car, and it knocks down 12.20s with a rookie driver...I'm sure there is a 11.90 in it...
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speedwell
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2016, 18:48:14 pm »



. 'A' pistons work great on a 74mm stroke

zach may be a stupid question , but those 92A are for 40hp ?? someone said that they are only for 64mm  ,the wirst poin are 18 or 20 mm
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nicolas
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2016, 18:14:42 pm »



. 'A' pistons work great on a 74mm stroke

zach may be a stupid question , but those 92A are for 40hp ?? someone said that they are only for 64mm  ,the wirst poin are 18 or 20 mm

i think Zach is refering to 'regular' 92mm pistons that are used with a 69 crank, but can be used up to cranks of 78mm, 78 and larger are more convenient to build with B pistons because the wrist pin is offset (22mm both)
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2016, 19:43:16 pm »



. 'A' pistons work great on a 74mm stroke

zach may be a stupid question , but those 92A are for 40hp ?? someone said that they are only for 64mm  ,the wirst poin are 18 or 20 mm

i think Zach is refering to 'regular' 92mm pistons that are used with a 69 crank, but can be used up to cranks of 78mm, 78 and larger are more convenient to build with B pistons because the wrist pin is offset (22mm both)

Yep, 69mm stroke. 92's for 40hp are very uncommon.
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ChristianDKT
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2017, 13:33:15 pm »

Now i got a pair of Panchito 44 with 40x35. I think i do the 1968cc.
Do you think it will work with the Web 86a 105°LC and Berg 1:1,45 rockers??
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Torben Alstrup
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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2017, 19:27:55 pm »

Itīll work. But why did you order that cam on 105 LC??? thatīs for small engines or busses at best.
Of the two, Iīd rather take the C45 with 1,25 rockers and advance it 2 degrees. 9,5 - 1 CR Itīll rip with those heads. 130 hp easy.
Use aluminum pushrods and it will be about as quiet running as a Web cammed engine.

T
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ChristianDKT
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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2017, 12:32:09 pm »

I bought that cam and didn't recocnized thats on a 105LC...

or should i order a new cam??

maybe a :

Web 163
Web 110
Web 86b

« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 10:16:14 am by ChristianDKT » Logged
Torben Alstrup
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2017, 20:16:55 pm »

Well, if that does not intimidate you, I would say yes. Buy the one that gives you the characteristics you want. Judging from the ones you have already bought Iīd say the Web 110 or the 109. Even a 109/110 split on 108 LC could work awesome. But still the C45 would be a good cam for the engine size. It will be a tad more noisy running, but thatīs about it.

T
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ChristianDKT
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2017, 16:11:38 pm »

Now i got the most of the parts:

AS21 FI Case Full-Flow
74cw Crank with Scat Flywheel 5,7kg (balanced)
92mm "B" p&c (balanced)
5,5 Scat H-beams (balancend)
Panchito 44 40x35, sg. springs. titan retainers, worked to 52cc
Web#163  288°  250°@0,050"  10,92mm
TP 54g lifters
TP alu puschrods
CB 1:1,25 Rockers with Porsche swivel-feet Adjusters
26mm Oilpump
1,5l Deepsump
40 Dell's or 44 IDF's Huh?
I'm planning to get a CSP Python 38mm or 42mm, 'cause i need the heaterboxes!

Wich carbs and exhaust size i should use?Huh  (only street-use)
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LGK
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2017, 10:23:17 am »

Hello,

I would advise using the 40 Dell's,they flow equal as a 44IDF weber,and progression is better thru the rpm range. Shocked

Python is not bad,but there's better for streetperformance,especially is you're looking for low rpm torque.

You will easily make between 135-145Hp/ 210-220Nm torque with the right set up here.

Rgds Steve
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Torben Alstrup
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2017, 17:45:40 pm »

Now i got the most of the parts:

AS21 FI Case Full-Flow
74cw Crank with Scat Flywheel 5,7kg (balanced)
92mm "B" p&c (balanced)
5,5 Scat H-beams (balancend)
Panchito 44 40x35, sg. springs. titan retainers, worked to 52cc
Web#163  288°  250°@0,050"  10,92mm
TP 54g lifters
TP alu puschrods
CB 1:1,25 Rockers with Porsche swivel-feet Adjusters
26mm Oilpump
1,5l Deepsump
40 Dell's or 44 IDF's Huh?
I'm planning to get a CSP Python 38mm or 42mm, 'cause i need the heaterboxes!

Wich carbs and exhaust size i should use?Huh  (only street-use)

For most power down low and best possible midrange use the Dells and an A1 1―" sidewinder.
For most power in the midrange & up, use 44IDFīs and 42 mm Python.
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