Is a "sleeper" a sleeper anymore?

[Jim Ratto]

Or maybe I should have titled this: "A sleeper ain't what they used to be."

Last Saturday I posted a topic about a trip to Phoenix, Arizona, way back in 1990 to the Bug A Rama. In the post, I alluded to the question "Are Sleepers really Sleepers anymore?" In the context of 1990, a car such as Dave Mason's 1962 black DKP car was about the most pure definition of "sleeper" I could come up with. By today's standards, however, we've all been "educated" to pick up on the hints, haven't we? Running full U.S. type bumpers now doesn't signify a stock, meek small cc engine now. Back then, if you didn't notice the Firestone slicks, you could easily walk by a car like Mason's at a car show, waxing over it's ride height, yeah the wheels looked "out of place" in an ocean of Empi 8 and Empi 5 repro's, but unless you:
1. took the time to look under the deck
2. heard the car run
3. saw the car fly down the strip
a car like this really betrayed its 190hp motor, with its sedate appearance. Now, take some time, and read over some of the Hot VWs articles that Fabian was kind enough to dig out and post for us. Most of these articles are from mid to late 80's...and early 90's. If you read the caption somewhere in the Berglar article, Jere Aldaheff mentions something about only the "exotic exhaust system" gives away the potential of the 2110cc powerhouse, otherwise, the car is a "sleeper."
The article on Pete Staat's "Dragon" 2332cc blue sedan, is referred to as a "sleeper." The article on Wade's awesome black '67, R.K. mentions how he kept apprearance "stock", "Instead of following the typical Looker route...." If I remember correctly, the article on Danny Gabbard's black Ghia, the car was referred to as "a street sleeper", as it looked "sedate" but packed a 2161cc IDA motor.

What did sleeper mean back then?

To me it was the sheer irony of seeing a tastefully done VW, that existed "under the radar", detailed nicely, glossy paint job (not paint "scheme") that gave little away in it's speed potential. The car looked calm, cool and collected, but then the shock of seeing the deck open, and the ingredients of a real Southern California hot rod VW..... Vertex mag, power pulley, huge Weber 48IDAs, 1-3/4" or larger header jammed up under apron. Obviously "something was up." The feel and aura of the car still said "Volkswagen" but a close look at the car mechanically revealed the secrets. One of the cars that captured this feel more than any other in my memory was Jim Kurlinski's green '67, the first time I saw it. It sat at almost stock height, sported a stock Java Green body, complete with everything VW intended to be on a 1967 Bug. Inside, it was stock tan, only clue to any hot rod mods was the Berg 5 shifter. The only giveaway (if the deck was shut) outside was the huge turbo muffler sprouting off the pro-stock sized merged header. Now if the deck happened to be open (which it was when I saw the car) you saw the true nature of the car.
Another car that always wore the "sleeper" moniker well, in my opinion was my friend Sheep's Ruby Red '67. This car was stock height, wore stock VW wheels and was so unassuming and meek it could pass as you grandma's gorcery getter. Turn the starter key though, and grandma would have screamed in horror. Where the 1500cc single port once lived, now sat a bad tempered 1914, K8, 1.5's, Pauter heads, IDAs...    That car was so fun to piss off V8's with.

But now consider today.

The "sleeper" is so commonplace, isn't it? Back in the early 90's I would park my '67 (looked almost identical to its look now, aside from chrome 5.5" wheels and dual quiet muffler merged exhaust), and it would get walked by, almost entirely unnoticed. I've talked to other guys that had similar cars back then, and they share the same stories. To build a real "sleeper" today almost means something like building a car like Steve Beecher's grey car, stock height, stock wheels....more of a vintage restored look than a hot rod at all. But with 2276cc power.

What do you think? Does the "sleeper" as it once was still exist?

[Bewitched666]

Nah i dont think so Jim,I think alot are now into to the 70's kinda callook or others are into lowering their cars and want to run some kinda spouped up engine.
I think most people(here in holland) that run stock height beetles arent really into tuning,tuning in holland is for a small group of peops.

But i think the "sleeper"look cars died somehow i guess but i can be wrong

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

here is a Picture of My 61 Sleeper in the late 80's I ran a 2110 ,IDA's,Fk89,Hunt Magneto,1 5/8 merge with hidden turbo muffler that exited under the running board Berg Shifter,Monster tach mounted low traction bar and O Berg were hidden under the fender with the help of the MudFlaps I could Jump on this thing in second gear and pull the wheels LOL it was a Hoot to Drive I also had two extra stock two tone wheels mounted with M&H's for the cruise nights LOL   Dave Glassie got a ride in this one LOL  wish I had a Picture of his Face

[louisb]

It also depends on who your "audience" is. To a VW person, maybe not, but to 99.999% of the rest of the world's population I think so. It may be different in your area where hipo bugs are more common but in my neck of the woods VWs are still viewed as slow cheap economy cars.

--louis

[ESH]

...It also depends on who your "audience" is...

That's the way I look at it. I think that most people within our part of the VW scene wouldn't have too much trouble picking out what's what with a car and that's the same for any other group of tuners but in the real world out there I reckon most of the VW's here wouldn't raise a blip on anyone's radar from a looks or style point of view?

Like Steve Beecher's car this '03 makes is pretty low on the radar even with a VW crowd. 

[BeetleBug]

...It also depends on who your "audience" is...

That's the way I look at it. I think that most people within our part of the VW scene wouldn't have too much trouble picking out what's what with a car and that's the same for any other group of tuners but in the real world out there I reckon most of the VW's here wouldn't raise a blip on anyone's radar from a looks or style point of view?

Like Steve Beecher's car this '03 makes is pretty low on the radar even with a VW crowd. 

Nah... thats not a sleeper, the engine is only a 1915ccm unit. And it does not even have IDA`s or a hide away turbo system... it does not even have a nitrous system hidden under the back seat











                                                                                                                                  BUT












It revs to 9600 rpm and pumps out 245hp

[richie]

Easy,a sleeper is not cal look   If it looks stock then Cal look it aint

cheers richie,uk

[SOB/RFH]

I guess you have a sleeper when the reply after a (lost) race is "what happened??".....You got a sleeper then!!! So it is a the combination of having no reputation/right attitude or even use the wrong text t-shirts and a non competitive look COMBINED with a car that looks like the owner.........you could get by with a stock looking car and a student outfit doing mid 12's....or a middleage full tilt car looking like it is doing mid 14 and rip of a 10 second timeslip............

All true statement need a story to back it up. I once (ha ha) got angry with the tech officals at a racetrack..........he was hunting this young turbo pokemon car in front of me in the line for all the faults  his rule book could supply him with arguments and my car, the little old beetle with rust holes in it did not get a look by the same guy........so I told him that to do his job he should figure out the true potential of the car he is inspecting.....So I ask him what he thinks the car is capable of and he replys mid 14 and I show him my low 12 timeslips.....jawdropping entrance of a sleeper and it's humble owner!!!

[Jim Ratto]

maybe "sleepers" as I knew them only existed in my eyes.

When I first saw some real blue-blooded Southern california hot rod Bugs, they were literally weapons of stealth in my eyes. I've always been a fan of wolves in sheep's clothing type of cars (no jokes sheep, Stealth, Rayburn, Carlos.... )
...i.e. cars that looked so unassuming and mild, but packed an iron punch. The true spirit of a "Cal Look VW" follows much of the same recipe.

You guys are right, depends on who is looking.

[Zach Gomulka]

Maybe the definition has changed. In my mind a sleeper is a car that looks bone stock, inside and out. Wheels, chrome trim, stock height, paint, all of it. Grandma's grocery getter. Shubees car looks like a great sleeper. Im lovin' the roof rack! The Sloval had to be the greatest VW sleeper ever. On the outside it was just another ugly old oval, but it had a nasty 2165 with the loudest straight cuts ever heard!!

[stealth67vw]

In my eyes, Jeff Denham has the ultimate sleeper. Definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing. 3100cc type 1, 12.0s @ 111 mph on cheap Remington 165 radials, driven to and from Vegas from Orange County. It looks like it would be parked in someones back yard rotting away or sitting in a garage with boxes pilled on top for decades. I think any car that stands out and says "Hey look at me, look at my shiny paint and wheels!" is not a sleeper.

[louisb]

I always thought of a sleeper as a car that doesn't attract attention to itself. Usually it is a car you wouldn't think was a performance car. As an example, way back when, some friends and I bought an '80s four door Buick and shoe horned a 500 cid Caddy engine in it. Gutted most of the interior but left the front bench seat. Black painted steel wheels with cheap recaps & and mismatched hub caps. I bet we didn't have $1,000 in the whole car but it ran like stink on the street with all that torque. That was a real sleeper.  Take the same car, have a blower sticking through the hood, huge slicks in the rear and its no longer a sleeper. Some cars just can't be sleepers because you expect them to be fast. Muscle Cars is an example though a lot of the muscle cars from the '60s & '70s would barely run 15s in the quarter. (All flash, no go) I am not however saying that a clean well detailed car can not be a sleeper. Especially a VW which most people don't think of as fast.

--louis

[louisb]

In my eyes, Jeff Denham has the ultimate sleeper. Definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing. 3100cc type 1, 12.0s @ 111 mph on cheap Remington 165 radials, driven to and from Vegas from Orange County. It looks like it would be parked in someones back yard rotting away or sitting in a garage with boxes pilled on top for decades. I think any car that stands out and says "Hey look at me, look at my shiny paint and wheels!" is not a sleeper.

Reminds me of the SSB.

--louis

[Jim Ratto]

Maybe the definition has changed. In my mind a sleeper is a car that looks bone stock, inside and out. Wheels, chrome trim, stock height, paint, all of it. Grandma's grocery getter. Shubees car looks like a great sleeper. Im lovin' the roof rack! The Sloval had to be the greatest VW sleeper ever. On the outside it was just another ugly old oval, but it had a nasty 2165 with the loudest straight cuts ever heard!!

I think you're onto something. Maybe among the masses that bought Hot VWs in 1987, Pete Staat's car was a "sleeper" and maybe same thing with Berglar. Nowadays with the Rennkafer race cars, the word is out that a car can look tame but run wild, whether they're streetable or not. Denham's Bug takes it to the extreme! I love it.
Now a Bug with tubbed rear fenders, big wide Weld drag stars, 8.5" slicks, turbo hanging all over the back half of the car, roll cage, all the race wiring and crap....that ain't a sleeper no matter how fast it is, and it ain't a Cal Look car either.

[lawrence]

I always thought of a sleeper as a car that doesn't attract attention to itself. Usually it is a car you wouldn't think was a performance car.  I am not however saying that a clean well detailed car can not be a sleeper. Especially a VW which most people don't think of as fast.

--louis

I agree with these two statements very much. A sleeper is a car that is fast, but you have no way of knowing it until the hammer is dropped. The SSB, a stock colored nova with rallley wheels or a clean, sedate beetle are cars that come to mind when I think sleeper.

True gearheads know a sleeper when they see one, but the general population of stock vw drivers, teenaged ricers and V8 bone heads do not have a clue. For example, I took my 56 sedan, which looks stock except for the erco wheels and lack of bumpers, out to a local vw gathering and one guy I know told me that my car looks like such a sleeper. Everyone was surprized by the IDA motor because there simply are not many people around the bay area running these types of motors. All you ex-bay area guys know this from experience.

It sucks because I built this engine and have not gotten a "kill" yet. No one has tried to race. Hopefully soon

[Jim Ratto]

I always thought of a sleeper as a car that doesn't attract attention to itself. Usually it is a car you wouldn't think was a performance car.  I am not however saying that a clean well detailed car can not be a sleeper. Especially a VW which most people don't think of as fast.

--louis

I agree with these two statements very much. A sleeper is a car that is fast, but you have no way of knowing it until the hammer is dropped. The SSB, a stock colored nova with rallley wheels or a clean, sedate beetle are cars that come to mind when I think sleeper.

True gearheads know a sleeper when they see one, but the general population of stock vw drivers, teenaged ricers and V8 bone heads do not have a clue. For example, I took my 56 sedan, which looks stock except for the erco wheels and lack of bumpers, out to a local vw gathering and one guy I know told me that my car looks like such a sleeper. Everyone was surprized by the IDA motor because there simply are not many people around the bay area running these types of motors. All you ex-bay area guys know this from experience.

It sucks because I built this engine and have not gotten a "kill" yet. No one has tried to race. Hopefully soon

Hi Lawrence,
yeah, when I lived in Livermore in the early 90's, very few gearheads out there knew what a VW could do. It was pretty funny, they assumed their 14-15 sec muscle cars could make mincemeat out of a big cc VW. By the end of the 90's, when I lived on Heather Lane, a lot of the V8 guys found out where I lved, and they would drive by and free rev me if I was in the garage or out front. But if I or my friend Bryan would go out to Patterson or Raymond, nobody would race us anymore. 

[The Ideaman]

A true sleeper used to live down the street from me in Mesa, AZ.  It was a 65 Rambler American with a 401 running on methanol.  Had white wheels and hubcaps.  11.40 timeslips at 120mph on 14" radials got him bounced from the dragstrip.  It even had a fake exhaust tip, so it looked stock.  The guy who owned it was big into streetracing, and moved from LA with the car.  Car had a stock aircleaner under a Carter AFB, and stock exhaust manifolds.  I always admired the thought and hours of work that went into the car.  He took me for a late night ride and scared the socks off me.

Looked almost like this.  Sure did have a distinctive smell when running.  Wow, that was over 25 years ago.

[lawrence]

A true sleeper used to live down the street from me in Mesa, AZ.  It was a 65 Rambler American with a 401 running on methanol.  Had white wheels and hubcaps.  11.40 timeslips at 120mph on 14" radials got him bounced from the dragstrip.  It even had a fake exhaust tip, so it looked stock.  The guy who owned it was big into streetracing, and moved from LA with the car.  Car had a stock aircleaner under a Carter AFB, and stock exhaust manifolds.  I always admired the thought and hours of work that went into the car.  He took me for a late night ride and scared the socks off me.

Looked almost like this.  Sure did have a distinctive smell when running.  Wow, that was over 25 years ago.

Off brand cars are even better sleepers and that rambler is a perfect example.  Was it quiet with the stock exhaust manifolds? Did it have loud mufflers? IMO a sleeper must be unasuming in apperance and sound. A lot of people in my area throw flowmasters on their stock 5.0s or chevy trucks and think that they can blow anyones doors off. My beetle is very quiet at idle with only a hint of straight cuts, but once the pedal is down the IDAs come alive. I do not even hear my super quiet magnaflow muffler.

[alex d]

I can see Jim's point, in fact nowadays there are lots of reverse sleepers (at least in Europe), bugs with a lowered front end, turbo muffler...and a stock engine

[Jon]

I guess what Jim is talking about is that there are so many lookers around that you can have a sleeper amongst them!
But I don’t thing there are enough lookers to blend in between over here in Europe to create this kind of lookers.

In fact, in the street scene here in Norway (mostly FF ricers) the kids EXPECT bugs to be fast. As the tuned bugs are the only bugs they see.

[alex d]

you lucky norwegians   

[Frank LUX]

I can see Jim's point, in fact nowadays there are lots of reverse sleepers (at least in Europe), bugs with a lowered front end, turbo muffler...and a stock engine

 

Frank

[Jon]

you lucky norwegians   

Maybe we are lucky, but I don’t see how, please explain 

[alex d]

yes I didn't explain myself very well      I'll try to explain better later

[The Ideaman]

Off brand cars are even better sleepers and that rambler is a perfect example.  Was it quiet with the stock exhaust manifolds? Did it have loud mufflers? IMO a sleeper must be unasuming in apperance and sound. A lot of people in my area throw flowmasters on their stock 5.0s or chevy trucks and think that they can blow anyones doors off. My beetle is very quiet at idle with only a hint of straight cuts, but once the pedal is down the IDAs come alive. I do not even hear my super quiet magnaflow muffler.

It had Chrysler Imperial mufflers.  You could barely hear it run, until he opened the throttle wide open.  Sure was a cool car.  MSD under the dash, linelock hidden and nitrous plumbed under the intake.  Idled like a stocker, but pulled to 6500 without any difficulty.  It had a roller cam right before he sold it for 2800 dollars.  If I remember right, it was featured in a issue of SS&DI.

[Rocket Ron]

I vote for stock everything but suspension and engine mods, restored or not depending on your taste,  well engineered and safe cars

 

[Nico86]

3100cc type 1

We want/need some specs !

[Rennsurfer]

Jeff's car in this picture explains everything.



To me, the "sleeper" term is used way too loosely, these days. When I was growing up, a true sleeper was stock on the exterior. That applied to any make of car. I don't consider any cars sleepers unless they follow that simple guideline.

[stoneloco808]

Over the years, I have heard the term "sleeper" given to a few cars time to time.  But some were more a mild custom, basically drew some attention to the car.  I, like a few mentioned above, define it as a stock appearing exterior and interior.  For the exterior, stock wheels w/165's all aroud or 155's up front, stock height front and rear, stock body trim, etc...  Interior bone stock, maybe a Hurst shifter and aftermarket floor mats.  Guages would be nicely tucked away in the dash.  A Berg or Scat shifter or any T-handle shifter will raise a few eyebrows and usually lead into more curiousity/investigating.  Basically something that one woulldn't take a second look.  Having a stock paint job or patina look doesn't really draw attention to itself.  IMO Jeff Denham's car is bascially the best definition of a "sleeper".  With the only clues for it to being a true sleeper would be the exhaust, and if you walk back enough or get on your knees to take a peep under the rear fender and/or apron seeing the deep sump and possibly the remote oil filter.

Having some sort of tachometer hanging off the dash, roll cage/bar, 5 point seat belts, etc...  gives up the disguise.

[Fiatdude]

Growing up in SoCal in the late 60's, early 70's a sleeper was anything that looked like a stocker/POS and when u raced them, they left your doors barely hanging on your car by a thread.

Of course, the first rule of street racing was never beat someone by more than a half a fender, that way they would always think they almost had you and would comeback next week for some more spanking, and you never told them you were at half throttle for most of the race so they could be reeling you in and just barely loosing LOl