Small powerhouses and old school

[Baked Beetle]

well after watching the dyno video again and again. I just cannot believe that crank holds up to 9k rpms, even with the light reciprocating parts........

I wish someone else could chime in 

[Jon]

I don't have the time to find the exact post or mail, but Johannes has shown me how the forces working on this crank a 9k is LESS than you will find in a normal 2332 setup @ I think it was 6 or 7k.
Light and small parts helps a lot, some choices were also done to keep the total down.

[RFbuilt]

its sumwer in the early pages of this thread,
johanes  noted the figures of weight.. 


from my understanding.. its like doing the "hammer" throw..

shorter hammer of the same weight (mouse motor JPM)
longer hammer of the same weight  (usual motors)

the shorter one will have less acting force on the thrower <-- crank   

vs the long one..

add the light parts (JE pistons of JPM)    i think its sumthing that is indeed possible and doable

just not viewed or seen thru the "common" eye  i guess..

or not tried cuz sum1 already said "meh  stroke that bish..  or  big bore it "  LOL

[Baked Beetle]

Thanks JHU!

Yea your right RF, thats what I'm trying not to do. Not do the most 'common' thing.  As soon as one person says "that cranks limit is 5k rpm' everyone starts believing it even though it could essentially turn 7k all day long and the person never tested it at all. Damn internet sometimes is the cause for mis-information. 

I've since found a set of JE 85.5 that weigh 335 versus the 418 grams of my oem KS pistons. that equates to 12 ounces less reciprocating weight just from the pistons. I'm thinking that is what Johannes pistons weigh in around.

[RFbuilt]

re these the geers one? (or sachette)  oh well one of th prostock guys LOL

JE 85.5 ?  very nice.. 


i made a post  in the cal look section and recieved ZERO feedback


asking about..  the givens like wiseco 94mm forgeds have gone down to sub 400$  mainly cuz some one had it done already and the fixtures and tooling and or cnc prog have been done at wiseco  and so they can keep making them at a lower price
(i know this is how it is fr another brand we specifically use for inline4's we order customs from) 

i wonder how many people would actually like.. or is it juz not sumthing worth a bean

aftermarket (wiseco or other makers like JE)  kind of 90.5mm  B and A   

thats lighter than the "off the shelf" products


that should sprout a sick lil 1776  haha
or a big rat 1904 
or a big farm rat 2007cc

still within the mouse family? 

[Clyde Berg]

Here is a small motor thats really cool. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rm7J-3lkrBo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Rm7J-3lkrBo</a>

Clyde

[Udo]

Thanks JHU!

Yea your right RF, thats what I'm trying not to do. Not do the most 'common' thing.  As soon as one person says "that cranks limit is 5k rpm' everyone starts believing it even though it could essentially turn 7k all day long and the person never tested it at all. Damn internet sometimes is the cause for mis-information. 

I've since found a set of JE 85.5 that weigh 335 versus the 418 grams of my oem KS pistons. that equates to 12 ounces less reciprocating weight just from the pistons. I'm thinking that is what Johannes pistons weigh in around.

When i started building engines in 1980 i did some 1600 cc engines for street use up to 130 hp and 7000 rpm . We had no problems with the original cranks . BUT , there were no conterweight cranks avaliable in Germany . We had some okrasa cranks which were too expensive for us ....
Today i would use a conterweighted 69 mm crank over 6000 rpm's, but an original with welded conterweights on , so you can be shure it does not bend too much.

Udo

[RFbuilt]

thats cool to know Udo..

btw do u stil have that old 88.5  or 89 piston set? LOL



clyde berg.. thats a nice smallie!!!

[Udo]

thats cool to know Udo..

btw do u stil have that old 88.5  or 89 piston set? LOL



clyde berg.. thats a nice smallie!!!

I have advertised the parts and did not get them sold . so i built an engine with all parts i had , made some nice 311 heads for it and got an 78,4x88,5 engine together . I want to dynotest it the next weeks  I drove it on the street in our black 67 and was much fun ...

Udo

[RFbuilt]

pm me how much u would have sold them...


maybe u can remove them for me.. HAHAHA


i have a set of 88mm thickwalls.. i think having a set of 88.5s as extra is nice..  could use my barrels and bore n hone .5mm more  when needed

[Baked Beetle]

so whats the rpm limit on my new in 88' BERG CW crank.... 

I love ebay. My karma came by to pay a visit tonight. POTL mahle pistons, CW crank, all bearings , rods and pressure plate........for cheap.

[Peter Shattock]

Better late than never, but here is a video clip of the moment the Raptor mouse was born.
 
Enjoy!(assuming it works)

Peter

[Peter Shattock]

1795cc raptor mouse 1 minute and forty seconds old.

[BeetleBug]

Ahh.. so refreshing to hear a mouse scream with fresh lungs. Thanks for posting!

[Andrimot]

the smile of the man "sound" better than the motor!!

amazing...

wish to hear on the car too.

Andreas

[Martin]

how good does that sound! can't wait to hear it at the track

[RFbuilt]

ok im experiencing a lil brainfart
 



how do u get 1795cc ?  bore ? stroke?

hehe

[dangerous]

Probably 91x69 (bored out 90.5 cylinders?)

[RFbuilt]

yeah thats the only value i got to reach the 1795cc number..

interesting.. would that be a JPM/JE custom piston?

[Peter Shattock]

Yes it is 69mm x 91mm, the same trick JP used with the 1603, to make sure the barrels are round and straight and honed correctly.

Yes again, the pistons are JP's spec from JE.

I will try and post a dyno run as well but given it took me this long to post the engine run up, don't hold your breath!

Peter

[RFbuilt]

thanks peter,

very interesting,

i guess now i should start saving some used 85.5 barrels, and if i find some 90.5s

never know when an 86 or 91 become handily available 

[Diederick/DVK]

it can't be that the trick is in the pistons right? are those JE pistons that much lighter or something?

[Peter Shattock]

I think you'll find its actually a large combination of things that makes the difference, with small improvements made in all areas that amount to something more significant when combined. That said the pistons are lighter than standard, but more importantly in combination with the barrel size shape and surface, ring package pin height, and the like it does produce a good performance advantage over a stock combination, both in terms of maintaining good cylinder pressure and reducing friction.

JP would be the best person to answer in detail, but this is the basics as I understand them.

Peter

[RFbuilt]

i think ,  its juz like running standard 94s  vs 94mm wiseco's

the weight, and ring package alone should help a few ponies strut along..


thats 1 small factor.. in the whole "system" of an engine..


seeing JPM work hsi engines.. im sure theres like atleast 50dff factors working together to make the "system" scream...


i really wish there was demand for 90.5mm forged aftermarket pistons,   im sure one of the companies like wiseco or CP or JE wont mind opening up an OTS offering for them..

and we can always buy 90.5 barrels too!

[Udo]

You can get 90,5 JE pistons that fit to the mahle cylinders ...
Udo

[RFbuilt]

from who ? and how much are they Udo ?

btw  have a pm for you.. regarding old german racing... wondering if u can help me out hehe

[1946vw]

I have some 95 JEs in 95mm mahles For sale

[Udo]

from who ? and how much are they Udo ?

btw  have a pm for you.. regarding old german racing... wondering if u can help me out hehe

You can get it from every company that sells je pistons as a special order . I also orderd some specials like 95 , 103.1  ....

Udo

[RFbuilt]

while you're right Udo..

but tat costs  "custom" prices lol

wat i meant was.. if we had more demands.. the wiseco 94s are around 350-400$ now since they actually offer it OTS (off the shelf)

we should have some in 90.5s  that would be fun..

example, we use Arias pistons on our honda's for racing.. we order mostly custom stuffs, they told me we can get a custom set  , if we order 5  sets  and get it for the price of normal shelf pistons at 450$  , but then again.. i cannot afford 5 sets one time LOL

[Udo]

The 90,5x82 mahles are light and do their work . I think normaly there is no need for pistons like that except you want an engine like Johannes did. You can get them if you want , that's the main thing

Udo