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Author Topic: Small powerhouses and old school  (Read 708701 times)
Tom G.
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« Reply #300 on: June 10, 2008, 13:06:07 pm »

Film, videos Shocked Shocked???Someone could post?

Johannes you make a great job:-) It is a great research and developement on really highest level iīve ever seen..I hope we see us this year....Perhaps i come across to the dynoday..

Bye
Tom
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Lee.C
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I might be an Idiot but I'm not an Arsehole!


« Reply #301 on: June 10, 2008, 13:22:54 pm »

". preaty sneeky job on that glass front end it almost passes as a oem one."

I was fooled for alittle while too - VERY nice work dude  Smiley
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Oliver Frey
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« Reply #302 on: June 10, 2008, 14:10:59 pm »

Johannes,

Very impressive work. I have followed this thread from the beginning to your very excellent 11.58 accomplishment! I have learned a lot.

This project definitely sounds fun.
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Frallan
Hero Member
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Posts: 933



« Reply #303 on: June 12, 2008, 16:18:53 pm »

How about this turbo mouse?
1641 cc

I am impressed. I think of Bob Mc Clurgs 9 s beetle from the 70-80s.
The 2007 specs of the Hyper bug-car weight with driver-1835 U.S pounds, 6 inch slicks (not  6-W's)type 1 trans,3.88 R@P

stock 69 mm VW 8 dowel crank with welded counterweights
043 heads with dual springs and 1.25 rockers
single 40 mm idf carb
stock rods
MSD ignition

2008  update -Billet heads ,intakes,and pushrod tubes- designed and made by Adam Badgett, driver of the Hyper Bug.
who also fabricated the new exhaust system as seen in the last video below.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6oKqSLvbj0M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/6oKqSLvbj0M</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/d2k-guT9VpA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/d2k-guT9VpA</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/wquvC1jeZQ8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/wquvC1jeZQ8</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/LstJ1c-vi30" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/LstJ1c-vi30</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/W5aQXg9orkU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/W5aQXg9orkU</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/D7mJkqcanuU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/D7mJkqcanuU</a>

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Oliver Frey
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Posts: 52



« Reply #304 on: June 12, 2008, 16:32:37 pm »

How about this turbo mouse?
1641 cc

I am impressed. I think of Bob Mc Clurgs 9 s beetle from the 70-80s.
The 2007 specs of the Hyper bug-car weight with driver-1835 U.S pounds, 6 inch slicks (not  6-W's)type 1 trans,3.88 R@P

stock 69 mm VW 8 dowel crank with welded counterweights
043 heads with dual springs and 1.25 rockers
single 40 mm idf carb
stock rods
MSD ignition

2008  update -Billet heads ,intakes,and pushrod tubes- designed and made by Adam Badgett, driver of the Hyper Bug.
who also fabricated the new exhaust system as seen in the last video below.




Frallan, I am personal friends with Adam and Freddy Bagget the owners of the Hyberbug. This car is amazing. it runs 6.20's in the 1/8. This year they have made some changes and are still working out the bugs. Adam works for a NASCAR team in the US and is a very talented CNC programmer.
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Jon
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12,3@174km/t at Gardermoen 2008


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« Reply #305 on: June 12, 2008, 23:39:41 pm »

The mouse on the track....  talk about a sweet running engine?! Crank the volume!!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/v15y0b480GY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/v15y0b480GY</a>
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 23:41:48 pm by JHU » Logged

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Oliver Frey
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« Reply #306 on: June 13, 2008, 03:11:02 am »

I'd really like to know how Johannes car is geared. I'm not taking anything away from his accomplishment (hell it's one of the coolest things I've seen in years), but gearing definitely comes into play with such a small engine.

Also where is the engine being shifted? In the video it sounds out of this world.
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Jee Ent.
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« Reply #307 on: June 13, 2008, 09:45:08 am »

From another angle..

http://jeeent.blogspot.com/2008/06/bugrun-2008.html
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Zach Gomulka
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Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.


« Reply #308 on: June 13, 2008, 17:53:15 pm »

Damn, I didnt know that was a 'glass front end until UD pointed it out, nice!!
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
dangerous
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« Reply #309 on: June 14, 2008, 21:46:37 pm »

it has a low ratio transaxel R/P 4.86:1  close ratio with 1.37:1 on the fourth gear.The rims are Saco five bolt and the tires are M&H 6x26-15.
On a small engine, the weight of the rotating engine parts has to be in relation to the vehicle weight and gearing.

Would love to know the other ratios too!!
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Johannes Persson
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« Reply #310 on: June 16, 2008, 10:38:45 am »

Hi there,

The ratios in my transaxel is R/P 4,375:1
                                        First 3,44:1
                                    second 2,54:1
                                       third  1,71:1
                                      fourth 1,35:1

The shift point is 8,5k and it never falls under 6k.
6k is at max torque, with this gearing I use the engine between max torque and max power in all four gears, this is of course more important on a "Mouse Motor" than bigger engines.

Best regards
Johannes

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dangerous
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« Reply #311 on: June 16, 2008, 11:27:32 am »

Wow, thanks for sharing Johannes!

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Oliver Frey
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« Reply #312 on: June 16, 2008, 13:28:47 pm »

Hello Johannes,

Thank you for sharing!

BTW I read that you plan on driving the engine on the street with full tin and cooling. will you be using the red early model or the Super?
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Bruce
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Posts: 1420


« Reply #313 on: June 16, 2008, 21:20:31 pm »

The ratios in my transaxel is R/P 4,375:1
                                        First 3,44:1
                                    second 2,54:1
                                       third  1,71:1
                                      fourth 1,35:1

Do you shift out of 1st before or after the 60' mark?
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Johannes Persson
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Posts: 67


« Reply #314 on: June 17, 2008, 07:30:48 am »

Hello,

Oliver Frey:My blue Super is retierd from the race track and I use it on a daily basis with a 2276,10,6:1 cr,fk 46,MS230  heads,JPM rockers two stud,scat 82 crank china,CB race rods,magnum straight cut,Phyton ex from CSP 45mm(very quiet),Keihin 41mm bike carbs making 222 very drivable hp.
My plan is to make the "Screaming Mouse"(red car) street legal for next year and do smaller trips with it , but the priority will be on the drag strip.

Bruce:I really do not know if I shift before or after the 60ft, probably after because a pritty long first gear.


Regards
Johannes
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Frallan
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Posts: 933



« Reply #315 on: June 18, 2008, 17:30:50 pm »


I just ran it in Drag racing analyzer and it comes out a shift right around the 60 ft mark or maybe just after at 63 feet with all whatever variables you might have.
I still miss the real weight of your car Johannes.
Playing a lot with the theoretical tool gives me more hp than what you have indicated, that is if your car isnīt even lighter than what has been indicated.
I also think we have a slightly wrong indication on Mantorp compared to Meca were you have the 60 ft too and reliable timing.
In no way can I simulate and match the Meca performance with Mantorp.

In any case, you have a real mighty mouse and you are very skilled in order to go that fast, first time out with new car AND new engine. Not just any engine either but what most of us will agree is fairly new territory.
Very few will do that.
(No, not that small cc engines did not go fast before but you have a new combo that is exceptional. Let me guess that you have a bunch of other improvement ideas that you are burning to test next year?)
Keep it up. As you must have noticed I am proud to "brag" about your achievements. It is just fun.
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rebel
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« Reply #316 on: June 18, 2008, 18:04:48 pm »

Hello Johannes,
Did you modyfy the VW 69mm crank in any way other than 8 dowelling?
I ask, cause I've heard stock cranks are no good for high RPMs...
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Oliver Frey
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« Reply #317 on: June 18, 2008, 18:25:26 pm »

Hello Johannes,
Did you modyfy the VW 69mm crank in any way other than 8 dowelling?
I ask, cause I've heard stock cranks are no good for high RPMs...

Counterweighted 69 mm probably.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 18:27:01 pm by Oliver Frey » Logged
JS
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« Reply #318 on: June 18, 2008, 22:31:08 pm »

Original Crank, no counterweights.
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Lee.C
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I might be an Idiot but I'm not an Arsehole!


« Reply #319 on: June 18, 2008, 23:00:51 pm »

I know of an english guys who takes his STOCK VW crank to over 9000rpm Wink Smiley
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Johannes Persson
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« Reply #320 on: June 19, 2008, 10:08:27 am »

Hi,
The crank in the "MM" is a bone stock one, only 8 dowelled and carefully balanced.
Forces created to the crank is from the weight of pistons and con rods, longer stroke and high rpm creates higher G-forces that pulls and bends the crank, and this is no good for the case.
The counterweights helps the crank to be straight.
The pistons and rods in the "MM" is much lighter than stock which means that the need for counterweights are less, I do not say that you do not need them but you defenetly need them less than with 94mm piston and long stroke.

I will show you an example on force created to the crank with a light and heavy piston at the same rpm,stroke and con rod length.

Ex:69mm stroke,8500rpm,5.4"rod and 565g piston(std) F=19276N
Ex:69mm stroke,8500rpm,5.4"rod and 375g piston(JE)  F=12793N

As you can see the created force is 50% more with the heavy std piston.To reach 12793N with the 565g piston the rpm is aprox 6800.

Keeping the weight down will save your engine and make it last longer with more performance.

Regards
Johannes
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Rasser
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Posts: 488



« Reply #321 on: June 19, 2008, 11:14:53 am »

Hi,
The crank in the "MM" is a bone stock one, only 8 dowelled and carefully balanced.
Forces created to the crank is from the weight of pistons and con rods, longer stroke and high rpm creates higher G-forces that pulls and bends the crank, and this is no good for the case.
The counterweights helps the crank to be straight.
The pistons and rods in the "MM" is much lighter than stock which means that the need for counterweights are less, I do not say that you do not need them but you defenetly need them less than with 94mm piston and long stroke.

I will show you an example on force created to the crank with a light and heavy piston at the same rpm,stroke and con rod length.

Ex:69mm stroke,8500rpm,5.4"rod and 565g piston(std) F=19276N
Ex:69mm stroke,8500rpm,5.4"rod and 375g piston(JE)  F=12793N

As you can see the created force is 50% more with the heavy std piston.To reach 12793N with the 565g piston the rpm is aprox 6800.

Keeping the weight down will save your engine and make it last longer with more performance.

Regards
Johannes


You make it all sound so simple ;-)

impressive stuff for sure!
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Oliver Frey
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« Reply #322 on: June 19, 2008, 14:54:36 pm »

I stand corrected Wink
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Jordy/DVK
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Posts: 464



« Reply #323 on: June 19, 2008, 22:33:35 pm »

You make it all sound so simple ;-)

impressive stuff for sure!

It isn't all that hard if you look into it... Most of it is just common sense...

F=m*a    a is the same for equal RPMs so the bigger the m the bigger the F...


Problem is that the lighter the parts you buy, the lighter your wallet will get as well... Smiley


BTW. Does anyone know the difference in weight between STD rods and H-beams?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 00:33:51 am by Jordy/DVK » Logged

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1951 medium brown splitwindow beetle (resto in progress)
1968 Cal-look(-a-like) (my daily driver)
dangerous
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« Reply #324 on: July 12, 2008, 07:51:25 am »

Hey there Johannes,
would you be so kind as to post
some pictures of the chambers and both ports of the heads.
The old ones have vanished,
and I am going crazy with anticipation having ever seen them!
Regards,
Dave.
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70Turbobug
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« Reply #325 on: August 24, 2008, 18:53:24 pm »

Johannes you do amazing work!! Amazing results! A friend of mine bought your MS230 heads - fantastic product and great service! Thanks for sharing your projects with us!
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Roman
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Posts: 656



« Reply #326 on: September 15, 2008, 17:47:40 pm »

Slightly off target but Brian Hyerstay (not sure about the spelling) runs a 1679 g/dragster into the low nines in the US and is said to produce around 220HP and goes through the lights at 11,000 rpm!

I talked to Brian a couple of days ago and the figures above seem to be correct. It is a VERY expensive engine though, SCAT flangded crank, titanium rods etc. No expenses spared!
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Roman
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« Reply #327 on: September 15, 2008, 17:56:47 pm »

The Screaming Mouse engine is sold to Greece, but I will make a 1679 based on the same concept to a friends G/Dragster.
As it is a pure race engine the compression will be slightly over 13:1, the cam will be a bit bigger and the intake valves will be 1 mm larger.
Heads by JPM and I will make the rest of the build.
The reson for going 1679 is that re rules for Competition Eliminator G/Dragster says 232 kg/liter and a minimum weight of 386 kg.
386/232= 1663 cc. If we have a 1679 we can weigh in on 390 kg including driver.
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Rune
SCC Crew
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Screwdrivers #7


« Reply #328 on: September 15, 2008, 18:21:57 pm »

Sounds like an interesting project Anders.. Keep us posted. Going to dynoday?
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Jon
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12,3@174km/t at Gardermoen 2008


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« Reply #329 on: September 15, 2008, 23:02:47 pm »

Wow Anders this sounds like a real challenge! I hope you will share your build and theories with us Loungers?!? I just wish I get to go to Dyno Day, but it doesn't look promising Angry Fill Rune with info for me  Grin
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